Irish hostile and abusive?

[PCM]

From The Observer:

'Fighting Irish' moniker found offensive

On Feb. 3, 2006, the Tribune Wire Services reported that when Dr. Myles Brand was "asked why Fighting Irish is acceptable at Notre Dame but Fighting Sioux at North Dakota is not, Brand said, "We've never had any Irish people come to us and say, 'We find that offensive.'"

Let this letter serve then as your official notice that some of the Irish (I am one) are indeed offended by a mascot dressed as an undignified leprechaun, flitting and prancing all around the football field or basketball court. Beyond that, we take particular offense with the moniker "Fighting Irish." As an Irish-American Catholic and citizen of both the U.S. and the Republic of Ireland, I am truly insulted by these portrayals of my race, heritage, creed and culture.

At this point, the NCAA only appears to be undeniably hypocritical. Let's correct that impression. It is unfathomable to think that "Fighting Sioux" is offensive and, somehow, in the eyes of the NCAA, that "Fighting Irish" is not.

Please do the right thing and either ban all references to racial/ethnic/national origins or just leave them all be.

[GrahamKracker]

When was the last time you seen a leprechaun? A true, green, little leprechaun? On the other hand, I can tell you the last time I seen a Sioux person. I can also tell you the last time I spoke the Lakota language, and participated in the Sioux way of life.

If the Irish truly have a problem with this, then why don't we heard complaints from Irish government? UND dismisses the fact that the Sioux nation, as well as the National Congress of American Indians (which is comprised of the leaders of all of the Federally recognized tribes in the country) have resolutions against the name, but to my knowledge I have not heard, read, or seen anything that states the government of Ireland opposes the use of the name "fighting irish" or the use of the mythical little green guy.

[SiouxMeNow]

When was the last time you seen a leprechaun? A true, green, little leprechaun? On the other hand, I can tell you the last time I seen a Sioux person. I can also tell you the last time I spoke the Lakota language, and participated in the Sioux way of life.

If the Irish truly have a problem with this, then why don't we heard complaints from Irish government? UND dismisses the fact that the Sioux nation, as well as the National Congress of American Indians (which is comprised of the leaders of all of the Federally recognized tribes in the country) have resolutions against the name, but to my knowledge I have not heard, read, or seen anything that states the government of Ireland opposes the use of the name "fighting irish" or the use of the mythical little green guy.

what PCM said...below!

[PCM]

When was the last time you seen a leprechaun? A true, green, little leprechaun?

Don't you think that by associating a nasty little man with real living, breathing people, it tends to stereotype those people by implying that they have similar characteristics and attributes?

[BigGame]

Don't you think that by associating a nasty little man with real living, breathing people, it tends to stereotype those people by implying that they have similar characteristics and attributes?

Please don't stereotype Leprechaun's, they should be judged as individuals.

I do like GK government arguement considering he used claim that if one person is offended the name and logo should be forced to change. But for the Irish people, your opinion doesn't count unless the Irish governement gets involved.

[bincitysioux]

It is unfathomable to think that "Fighting Sioux" is offensive.............

That's what I've always said!

[fightonsioux]

So GK, you're saying that if we used the cartoon version Sammy Sioux again that would be OK because there really isn't Indians that look like that?

[southpaw]

Notre Dame isn't the Fighting Leprechauns, they're the Fighting Irish. However, I guess if you're asking when was the last time you saw a leprechauns... well when was the last time you saw a real living Fighting Sioux Cartoon.

If the Sioux Logo represents real people, then why doesn't the Fighting Irish Logo represent real people. Both are cartoon drawings and not real pictures of a Native American or Irish American. As usual, the double standard just walks itself out into the open and everyone but GK and the NCAA can see it.

[The Sicatoka]

And the University of Idaho Vandals keep getting a free pass. (Yo, GK, don't you know a former athlete for the Vandals?)

As do the San Diego State Aztecs (because Aztecs are Native Mexicans, not Native Americans, and thus not worthy of "protection" by the NCAA).

[7NationalTitles]

The U should should just change their name to the Fighting Dakotans and say that they are using it because it is the state's name. They won't be forced to change it because even though it's a group's name, it is also the state name.

I'd like to see the NCAA's off-the-wall and illogical response to denying that name also.

[SiouxPride0303]

The U should should just change their name to the Fighting Dakotans and say that they are using it because it is the state's name. They won't be forced to change it because even though it's a group's name, it is also the state name.

I'd like to see the NCAA's off-the-wall and illogical response to denying that name also.

They would say its ok because it comes from the state name, like they did for the Illini.

[Goon]

Fighting Norwegians would be a good nickname too. Then we could have a fighting Ole mascot. Yikes we could also have lefsa (sp) and lutefisk as official foods.

[NORGE]

Fighting Norwegians would be a good nickname too. Then we could have a fighting Ole mascot. Yikes we could also have lefsa (sp) and lutefisk as official foods.

I'm all for it... I don't find it hostile or abusive... I'd wear that jersey with pride... only lets change that lutefisk to krumkakke

[NORGE]

one more thing to append... how about a good norse viking name like Thorfinn Bloodaxe, or Eirik Skullsplitter?

for the mascot I mean

[Air Force One]

Please don't stereotype Leprechaun's, they should be judged as individuals.

I do like GK government arguement considering he used claim that if one person is offended the name and logo should be forced to change. But for the Irish people, your opinion doesn't count unless the Irish governement gets involved.

They're not TRUE Irish!

[dallassiouxfan]

I'm all for it... I don't find it hostile or abusive... I'd wear that jersey with pride... only lets change that lutefisk to krumkakke

maybe even add some futtigmunds. My personal favorite.

[HockeyMom]

They're not TRUE Irish!

*spits water everywhere*

That's the best one I've heard all day!

[Sioux-cia]

maybe even add some futtigmunds. My personal favorite.

But if we keep the lutefisk, it will be like having an extra man/woman on the ice/field/court/etc. More than one opponent will go down after just one big wiff!!

[NORGE]

But if we keep the lutefisk, it will be like having an extra man/woman on the ice/field/court/etc. More than one opponent will go down after just one big wiff!!

thats true... good thinking

[GrahamKracker]

So GK, you're saying that if we used the cartoon version Sammy Sioux again that would be OK because there really isn't Indians that look like that?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Sammy Sioux was based off of an Indian, a leprechaun is a leprechaun, not human at all.

I know Sioux people. I know Fighting Sioux people. I went to war along Sioux men and women, I fought fires with "Sioux crews", never have I seen a true leprechaun, though.

The Irish government doesn't have to necessarily get involved, but if it was truly offensive I think the media would have informed us that the people of Ireland were offended, don't you think?

[GrahamKracker]

As usual, the double standard just walks itself out into the open and everyone but GK and the NCAA can see it.

The problem is you can't see how ignorant YOU are. We have no double standard. the Sioux nation, which I am a part of, has asked UND, Cupcake, and the SBHE to retire the name, plain and simple.

If you people who claim to be of irish descent want to take on ND, be my guest.

The fighting sioux logo is not based off of some mythical creature. It is not based off of a dead culture (like the illini, they were all killed by people who invaded their home land). It is based off of the Sioux people.

I know most of you that wear the Sioux jersey have absolutely nothing to do with the Sioux people, but we are here. (Of course, there are exceptions to this and those three Sioux fans that have spent time on a reservation will most likely respond to this).

Believe me, this next year, hold on, its going to be a wild ride.

[GrahamKracker]

The U should should just change their name to the Fighting Dakotans and say that they are using it because it is the state's name. They won't be forced to change it because even though it's a group's name, it is also the state name.

I'd like to see the NCAA's off-the-wall and illogical response to denying that name also.

That's fine, just change the logo to someone of scandinavian descent, or German descent.

[GrahamKracker]

Fighting Norwegians would be a good nickname too. Then we could have a fighting Ole mascot. Yikes we could also have lefsa (sp) and lutefisk as official foods.

So, with that mentality, you think that H-Sioux-O, Siouxdogs, and Sioup, represent my people? This is where I really start to lose "how" this considered honor.

If you want to eat some traditional food, lets bring in some puppies, and some buffalo tripe.

[The Sicatoka]

GK,

The NCAA is running with a double standard.

A group of Native Mexicans, MEChA, has asked San Diego State to change "Aztecs".

The NCAA ignores them. Double. Standard.

Just like Irish. Vandals.

All, or none. Consistency. That's all.

[Sioux-cia]

Mmm, the media has to inform us if someone/some group is offended....... Ok I got it. Tell the media if someone or something has offended you. That gives it credibiltiy. Oh boy, here I go!!!!!