Checking from behind

[PCM]

WCHA commissioner Bruce McLeod was the guest between periods in the CC-DU game. I was surprised when he said the hockey community "overreacted" to Geoff Paukovich's hit on Robbie Bina. The WCHA went from 9 checking from behind penalties last season to around 90 this season. He's predicting that after this season, there will be another rewriting of the rules that gives referees more latitude in assessing something less than a 10-minute misconduct and less than a 5-minute major.

McLeod was asked if the WCHA could use post-game video replays to assess tougher penalties after the fact if they were deserved. McLeod said that they "try not to call the game after the game." Besides that, he thought the quality of video replays around the league varied so greatly that there was no way to do it fairly to everyone.

My take on this is that the WCHA is anxious to get back to the status quo, which seems to me the exact opposite of what should happen. Instead of concluding, as McLeod does, that the penalty is being called too much, I'd be alarmed that there are 10 times more CFB penalties this season than last season.

Obviously, this is mostly because the NCAA made that penalty a point of emphasis, but who would have guessed there was that much checking from behind going on that was previously uncalled, even after coaches and players were warned about it? As we saw on Friday and Saturday at Denver, Paukovich is still engaging in this dangerous play and not getting called for it.

In tonight's DU-CC game, a Tiger player checked a Pioneer player from behind and the CC sportscasters agreed that it should have been a CFB penalty. Instead, Derek Shepherd called it cross-checking. This demonstrates that the penalty isn't being called nearly as much as it could or should be.

I would prefer that the rule remain in place as it is for at least another season until there is some concrete proof that players aren't checking from behind as much as they once did. Treating what happened to Bina as a temporary blip on the radar undoes the lessons learned as a result of that horrible incident.

Edited March 3, 2006 by PCM

[UNDLAW]

WCHA commissioner Bruce McLeod was the guest between periods in the CC-DU game. I was surprised when he said the hockey community "overreacted" to Geoff Paukovich's hit on Robbie Bina. The WCHA went from 9 checking from behind penalties last season to around 90 this season. He's predicting that after this season, there will be another rewriting of the rules that gives referees more latitude in assessing something less than a 10-minute misconduct and less than a 5-minute major.

McLeod was asked if the WCHA could use post-game video replays to assess tougher penalties after the fact if they were deserved. McLeod said that they "try not to call the game after the game." Besides that, he thought the quality of video replays around the league varied so greatly that there was no way to do it fairly to everyone.

My take on this is the the WCHA is anxious to get back to the status quo, which seems to me the exact opposite of what should happen. Instead of concluding, as McLeod does, that the penalty is being called too much, I'd be alarmed that there are 10 times more CFB penalties this season than last season.

Obviously, this is mostly because the NCAA made that penalty a point of emphasis, but who would have guessed there was that much checking from behind going on that was previously uncalled, even after coaches and players were warned about it? As we saw on Friday and Saturday at Denver, Paukovich is still engaging in this dangerous play and not getting called for it.

In tonight's DU-CC game, a Tiger player checked a Pioneer player from behind and the CC sportscasters agreed that it should have been a CFB penalty. Instead, Derek Shepherd called it cross-checking. This demonstrates that the penalty isn't being called nearly as much as it could or should be.

I would prefer that the rule remain in place as it is for at least another season until there is some concrete proof that players aren't checking from behind as much as they once did. Treating what happened to Bina as a temporary blip on the radar undoes the lessons learned as a result of that horrible incident.

I would be happen with just a re-definition of the rule at this point.

At least put something in that accounts for a "turn of the body" in a defensive (as opposed to a defenseless) position that would allow for anything from a 2 minute to a 10 minute penalty depending on the situation.

[PCM]

I would be happen with just a re-definition of the rule at this point.

At least put something in that accounts for a "turn of the body" in a defensive (as opposed to a defenseless) position that would allow for anything from a 2 minute to a 10 minute penalty depending on the situation.

Except that when referees had the option of going for the 2-minute minor or the 5-minute major before this season, they very seldom gave the major, and that was a huge problem. Even the hit Paukovich put on Bina was assessed as a two-minute minor.

It does no good to have the 5-minute major and 10-minute misconduct penalty in the book if it's rarely used.

[UNDLAW]

I agree with the past rulings on this rule.

However, with the reemphasis on it that they put into play at the beginning of each season, maybe next season (or for the rest of this season) they can rework the "emphasis" put on this rule and call the call that should be made.

A prime example was the five minute major at the beginning of the game on Friday night. YES, it was a check "from behind." However, it was only from "behind" because the DU player saw him coming and turned toward the boards while being hit as the UND player was maintaining the status quo (i.e. not changing his line or momentum or angle of attack). In that case, you can fault the UND player for not letting up, but don't exuberate the penalty to a checking from behind because the player saw him coming and faced the boards to avoid a legit check!

That is all I mean and I am sure you know that and know how difficult it is for the refs to "change now" this late in the season when that same play as been called (wrongfully IMHO) the whole year. However, as they say, better late than never!

[BigGreyAnt41]

What about making it a 2-min (or 4-min) minor for any player who turns to get hit from behind?

Leave the 5 and 10 the same, but adding the possibilty of a 2 or 4 would make fewer players turn to take the hit from behind.

[siouxcaddy]

The WCHA went from 9 checking from behind penalties last season to around 90 this season.

Anyone have any idea as to how many of those 90 were called on us? I'm guessing that we have to be the leader in this category....

[petey23]

Lets not forget that Paukovich not only hit Bina from behind, he hit him after the whistle as well. If Adam would have had his head out of his a$$, he would have gave him the 5 and 10 and we probably would not have had to deal with the inconsistency of this call and players engangering themselves by trying to draw the call.

[redwing77]

What about making it a 2-min (or 4-min) minor for any player who turns to get hit from behind?

Leave the 5 and 10 the same, but adding the possibilty of a 2 or 4 would make fewer players turn to take the hit from behind.

You mean diving?

No, diving is legal in the WCHA.

[Snake]

What about making it a 2-min (or 4-min) minor for any player who turns to get hit from behind?

Leave the 5 and 10 the same, but adding the possibilty of a 2 or 4 would make fewer players turn to take the hit from behind.

I feel any player that turns his back to another player in hopes of drawing a CFB should be penalized just as severely as the aggressor. In this case, the player receiving the hit is just as guilty of putting himself in harm's way as the player dishing out the hit.

WCHA officiating is so inconsistent it's laughable. I'd be willing to bet that the number of penalties in a WCHA game didn't go up 10-fold after the NCAA's emphasis on obstruction was handed down. Does the WCHA get to pick and choose which points of emphasis they enforce? They appear to have gone overboard on the CFB, yet a lot of obstruction and stickwork still goes uncalled.

[Sioux-cia]

You mean diving?

No, diving is legal in the WCHA.

It's unsportsmanlike conduct and that should draw a penalty.

[WPoS]

You mean diving?

No, diving is legal in the WCHA.

Just ask Earl....

W

[PCM]

I think there's a three-step process that has to go on before the checking from behind problem is significantly reduced. McLeod's haste to return to to the status quo doesn't cut it for me.

1. Coaches have to emphasize the importance of avoiding this penalty and teach players how to avoid getting called for it (and not how to take advantage of it).

2. Players must understand that if they check from behind, it will be called.

3. On-ice officials must distinguish between when it's appropriate to assess a 5-minute major and when it's not. This will probably require more time and training. The NCAA put out a video before the season started providing examples of when the major penalty should be called and when it shouldn't.

I thought Drew Stafford's hit in Duluth was a classic example of when the penalty shouldn't be called because he held up and used his arms to keep the Bulldog player from hitting the boards. That should have been only a 2-minute boarding if the ref had seen the NCAA video, but he called it a 5-minute major.

In short, I don't think it's wise to crack down on this for one season, call it an overrecation and then go back to business as usual.

[siouxtatoo42]

It's unsportsmanlike conduct and that should draw a penalty.

fixed it for the overly obsessed anal people like myself

[Sioux-cia]

fixed it for the overly obsessed anal people like myself

Thank you.

And thanks for no insults as some would have been prone to do.

[PCM]

Here's the checking from behind penalties that have been called on UND this season. (I think I got them all.) I count 10 in WCHA games and two in non-conference games. There were some minor penalties assessed for checking from behind. I'm not sure whether McLeod was counting only major penalties or all checks from behind in the 90 he mentioned.

October 8, 2005

North Dakota vs Miami

3rd Period - 16:11 Matt Smaby (5-Checking from Behind)

November 5, 2005

Wisconsin at North Dakota

1st Period - 9:49 NDK-2 Matt Smaby (5-Checking from Behind)

November 12, 2005

North Dakota at Minnesota Duluth

1st Period - 5:37 Matt Smaby (5-Checking from Behind)

2nd Period - 00:20 Drew Stafford (5-Checking from Behind)

November 18, 2005

North Dakota at St. Cloud State

3rd Period - 14:45 T.J. Oshie (5-Checking from Behind)

December 17, 2005

Bemidji State at North Dakota

1st Period - 16:47 Mike Prpich (5-Checking from Behind)

January 6, 2006

North Dakota at Alaska Anchorage

1st Period

[Sioux-cia]

12 CFB penalties and two players had more than one; Fabian with 2 and Smaby with 3. Doesn't really look like there's a pattern.

Those with better memories than mine (or those with the games on tape) can tell us how many of those were actual CFB penalties and how many were 'turn arounds' meant to draw the penalty.

[PCM]

Doesn't really look like there's a pattern.

Smaby had three in a row and hasn't taken one since Nov. 12, so it seems that he's learned something from the experience.

Those with better memories than mine (or those with the games on tape) can tell us how many of those were actual CFB penalties and how many were 'turn arounds' meant to draw the penalty.

The one that stands out in my mind as being a particularly bad call was the one on Stafford in Duluth. Hakstol agreed that the call on Finley Saturday in Denver was legit. I don't think he was too happy with the Friday call on Fabian, however.

At any rate, I'm more concerned with McLeod's apparent desire to return to the pre-Bina WCHA business-as-usual standard. Given the fact that in less than a week there have been three uncalled instances of checking from behind that I know about, it seems that the league is headed in that direction already.

[Sioux-cia]

I agree with you. The CFB penalty has to stand as is with lots of education for the refs. As noted in our CFB penalties, it appears that the penalties have been a deterrent for our guys.

[dagies]

You mean diving?

No, diving is legal in the WCHA.

That's exactly what I was thinking. If it's obvious the player turned in order to draw the penalty, then diving would be a good penalty to call. However, the difficulty there is the natural inclination to turn your back to danger to protect your "vitals" (eyes, chest, mouth, etc). Some of that turning HAS to be a natural reaction to danger, and not just an attempt to draw a larger penalty.

Me? I would like to see all CFB called as they are right now. But I'd like the refs to have the latitude to decide whether this was just less serious or more serious hit or even intent to injure type penalty. Given that, then I think the league should have the ability to tack on a 1 or 2+ game suspension to the aggregious penalties after the game. If a coach thinks his player was attacked and the ref didn't give the higher, more proper sanction, then the coach sends a tape to the league who can decide to tack on more to that player if they agree.

[dagies]

In short, I don't think it's wise to crack down on this for one season, call it an overrecation and then go back to business as usual.

How about idiotic? How about this is an example of why the WCHA might need a new leader. Maybe one who will review the officiating, and look for ways to improve it. Handyman will think this is another example of Sioux fans who complain, but if we got better quality, more consistent referring they'd save bandwidth on other fan sites including GPL. The quality of the game would improve in the WCHA, and maybe, just maybe, Bina incidents wouldn't happen.

[siouxtatoo42]

That's exactly what I was thinking. If it's obvious the player turned in order to draw the penalty, then diving would be a good penalty to call. However, the difficulty there is the natural inclination to turn your back to danger to protect your "vitals" (eyes, chest, mouth, etc). Some of that turning HAS to be a natural reaction to danger, and not just an attempt to draw a larger penalty.

Me? I would like to see all CFB called as they are right now. But I'd like the refs to have the latitude to decide whether this was just less serious or more serious hit or even intent to injure type penalty. Given that, then I think the league should have the ability to tack on a 1 or 2+ game suspension to the aggregious penalties after the game. If a coach thinks his player was attacked and the ref didn't give the higher, more proper sanction, then the coach sends a tape to the league who can decide to tack on more to that player if they agree.

isn't this the problem that the league was having before?? correct me if i'm wrong, and please do, that's it's always been the issue, that the officials didn't WANT to be calling the major unless someone was getting hurt... as long as i've know hockey, CFB has always been able to be called as a major and a game?? Please fill me in if i've missed something, or if i've assumed this penalty as what it is all the way up through college hockey....

[Goon]

WCHA commissioner Bruce McLeod was the guest between periods in the CC-DU game. I was surprised when he said the hockey community "overreacted" to Geoff Paukovich's hit on Robbie Bina. The WCHA went from 9 checking from behind penalties last season to around 90 this season. He's predicting that after this season, there will be another rewriting of the rules that gives referees more latitude in assessing something less than a 10-minute misconduct and less than a 5-minute major.

I think this is the attitude of the WCHA officials too, it appears that UND has suffered from this new rule the most. I had a buddy of mine say this two weeks ago in the stands during the UND vs UMD game. It was almost like the refs said, "ok you SOB's", if your going to make so much out the Bina hit your going to be the ones that suffer the most from it. I know some in the league also aren't happy that UND plays a hard hitting in your face type of game.

I think McCleod is so far off the Mark he isn't even on the paper. The player that should have suffered is Jeff Paukovich, but some how the DU coaching staff has made him out to be the victim. The kid is still out there checking smaller skilled players from behind all the while going up and down the ice handing out cheap shots then turtling behind the refs and the press when someone challenges him. Here is the brutal reality. Nothing going to happen to Punkovich till he moves up to the next level, one day he will hit someone from behind or cheap a player like Gaborik and he will have some monster like Bouguard come out and rip his head off. It happened to Claud "the Fraud" Lemiux too, he hit Draper with a dirty hit and got his due three fold.

This is where Jeff Punkovhich will get his due, it will take a while but he will get his in the end. Unforunately Jeff Paukovich will move up just to the NHL because the NHL like big dumb forwards with the intellegence of a hand balls like Jeff. However, his attitude will be changed for him the first time he gets out of line, the vigilante justice will correct his misdeeds.

I just hope I am there to see it and appreciate it. I also hold Jeff in the same low reguard as Claud Lemiux, eventually Claud got his due: I was great watching Cam Neely take Claud's fat ugly head and drill it into the end boards after he had cheaped Cam in a game between the Devils and the Bruins (I believe the dirty act was a leg check on Cam after he had just returned from knee surgery). Notice what happened to Jeff "after the Wistle" Taffe once he got to the pros he toned his act down quite a bit.

[PCM]

How about idiotic? How about this is an example of why the WCHA might need a new leader. Maybe one who will review the officiating, and look for ways to improve it. Handyman will think this is another example of Sioux fans who complain, but if we got better quality, more consistent referring they'd save bandwidth on other fan sites including GPL. The quality of the game would improve in the WCHA, and maybe, just maybe, Bina incidents wouldn't happen.

I've tried not to frame this as a "UND is getting screwed by the officiating" issue. Heck, if I wanted to do that, I'd think McLeod's desire to return to the status quo would be great because of all the CFB penalties called on the Sioux this season. I wouldn't even have brought it up here.

When I hear McLeod say that the WCHA has gone from 9 to 90 CFB penalties in one season, my reaction is not that the penalty is being called too often. My reaction is that the WCHA has a major problem with CFB, probably because it hasn't been called nearly as often as it should.

What happened to Bina at last year's Final Five and the two-minute minor assessed by Adam should have been a "Here's your sign!" moment for Greg Shepherd and McLeod. As much as I hate to admit it, the NCAA got the message and the WCHA didn't.

If I had faith that giving officials more latitude would solve the problem, I'd be all for it. But before that happens, I'd like to see some evidence that coaches are teaching players how to avoid CFB penalities, players are engaging in it far less often and the on-ice officials have a better understanding of when the major penalty should apply and when it shouldn't.

It's going to take more than one season to convince me that all those things are happening and that the danger to players has been significantly reduced.

[Cratter]

I've tried not to frame this as a "UND is getting screwed by the officiating" issue. Heck, if I wanted to do that, I'd think McLeod's desire to return to the status quo would be great because of all the CFB penalties called on the Sioux this season. I wouldn't even have brought it up here.

When I hear McLeod say that the WCHA has gone from 9 to 90 CFB penalties in one season, my reaction is not that the penalty is being called too often. My reaction is that the WCHA has a major problem with CFB, probably because it hasn't been called nearly as often as it should.

What happened to Bina at last year's Final Five and the two-minute minor assessed by Adam should have been a "Here's your sign!" moment for Greg Shepherd and McLeod. As much as I hate to admit it, the NCAA got the message and the WCHA didn't.

If I had faith that giving officials more latitude would solve the problem, I'd be all for it. But before that happens, I'd like to see some evidence that coaches are teaching players how to avoid CFB penalities, players are engaging in it far less often and the on-ice officials have a better understanding of when the major penalty should apply and when it shouldn't.

It's going to take more than one season to convince me that all those things are happening and that the danger to players has been significantly reduced.

Well said.

[Goon]

If I had faith that giving officials more latitude would solve the problem, I'd be all for it. But before that happens, I'd like to see some evidence that coaches are teaching players how to avoid CFB penalities, players are engaging in it far less often and the on-ice officials have a better understanding of when the major penalty should apply and when it shouldn't.

It's going to take more than one season to convince me that all those things are happening and that the danger to players has been significantly reduced.

Most of us have mentioned here that it appears that DU is teaching their players to turn into the hits so they can get the penalty called against the opposition. Also, Punkovich hasn't been realed in so it appears that DU has just accepted the fact that Jeff is going to go out there and run people.