The State Needs Both Universities....Has Pride in Both

[informant]

Let me introduce myself in terms of my background. Although I have written a few replies since joining this forum, I would like people to know a little bit about me.

I grew up in Mayville and went to high school there just before it became May-Port. I played on a great Mayville basketball team that was upset by Hillsboro in the district tournament. They were our nemesis. Beyer was a genius. We also had the misfortune of having to play Northwood the year before that...when Doug Hanson dominated the Red River Valley Conference. That was an outstanding team that deserved to win. Does anyone remember when getting through the district tournament was a really big deal? We had Hillsboro, Portland, and Northwood to contend with at every district tournament. All three were loaded with talent, and all three had great coaches. Those tournaments were like a small state tournament. Lew Lee was standing room only with an atmosphere that you could cut with a knife.

I grew up listening to UND basketball on the radio as early as the Phil Jackson years. I idolized those guys. I went to almost every Comets game as a kid. There were many great athletes that played ball at the old MSC. Doug Eiken was the best. He was a four-sport athlete. He's one of the best athletes that I've ever seen. He would have been a star at UND or NDSU. He was about 6' 5"....215....and could run like a deer. Doug grew up in Portland and decided to stay at home to play for the Comets. He shattered his shoulder playing centerfield for the Yankee's AAA farm club, and that ended a potentially bright future in the major leagues. Forgive me if I've been inaccurate in some of my details. You know...time has a way of blurring the facts.

Two members of my family went to NDSU in the 60s and 70s. I became enthralled by the Bison football dynasty. Couldn't help it. I loved watching those teams. UND had some really great teams then too...but mostly...the Bison had the edge. Football was at a DI level at both universities. The only real difference was depth and some speed at a few key positions. I played ball with Mark Walker...the "other" running back on UND's championship team. Mark was a truly great athlete. He mostly blocked for Ciche. I cheered for them too.

In the 90s I went to many UND basketball games when Guldseth was playing...among other great players. I watched the NDSU and UND women battle it out many times. They were great.

I watched the demise of the Bison football program in the 90s under the poor leadership of Bob Entzion. I believe that Rocky Hager was the scapegoat for a much bigger problem. I couldn't believe how the smaller schools gained control of DII in terms of voting to lower scholarships.

It's my opinion that both schools should have moved up in the early to mid 90s. I respect UND for its recent successes in football, and other sports. But I respectfully say that the caliber of play in DII football has dropped rather dramatically. I've watched a few of UND's playoff games on TV...and those teams were really good. But they are a shadow of past teams...either at UND or at NDSU. It's the caliber of play...and players. I went to Concordia College...and frankly...DII (even in the playoffs)...reminds me of old Cobber teams, and teams like St. Johns. They were good, but the rosters were spotty. That...to me...is what UND looks like now. That's how I saw NDSU in the past decade or so. Good teams....but not even close to the old dynasty days.

I'm upset that the two universities are fighting each other. I've always respected both schools. UND Hockey....the flagship program at UND....should be a source of pride for the entire state. The remarkable accomplishments of the NDSU football program should be a source of pride for the whole state. The accomplishments in women's basketball at both schools should be a source of pride for the whole state. NDSU wrestling should be a source of pride for the whole state.

I do not believe that NDSU should enter the hockey arena. I think that UND should be "the program" in North Dakota.

I also believe that any resentment toward NDSU's move to DI-AA is misguided. Why would anyone blame SU for wanting to bring back a high caliber of football when it had become accustomed to playing at a much higher level? I understand the misgivings about the problem of having to move the entire sports program to DI. It is a huge challenge for NDSU and SDSU. They both need a conference badly, but NDSU needed to get it going before the football program dropped any more. For me, it had less to do with wins and losses (even to UND) than the desire to bring the caliber of play back up.

I ask this question for UND Hockey fans: If the ncaa, in its great wisdom, made a ruling that required the university to bring all of its sports programs up to DI in order to keep its hockey program at that level...would there be any doubt as to the answer? The move up would happen immediately. Hockey is UND's flagship program.

In effect...that is what NDSU was faced with. Its flagship program was going down. It needed a major shakeup....and a move up. NDSU was accustomed to going into Wisconsin and the Twin Cities to find blue-chip athletes to comliment its North Dakota recruits. In 1984 there were 21 North Dakota kids on the NDSU football roster. In the fall of 2005, there were 21 also.

My numbers may be off slightly...but a short look at the UND Hockey roster showed 5 North Dakota kids on the hockey roster in 2004-2005. And I'm sorry...but Sioux Hockey has had more than a few Canadians on its roster through the years.

So the argument about North Dakota kids in the flagship programs at either school is historically moot.

UND is capable of moving up to DI-AA in all of its sports. I would support the move.

But what I don't support is the low-class attitudes coming from both universities in this dark age of the rivalry.

I live in Southern California now. I enjoy watching NDSU scores scrolling across the espn screen on game days. It's the most exposure that the state has had in the broader sense. And the win at Wisconsin "was" huge. No one at NDSU believes that they could play in a conference like the Big Ten year by year. The win in Madison was a Miracle on Hardwood for NDSU. It likely won't happen again for a while.

Someone on this site mentioned Chaminade and how it has disappeared since their big upset of Virginia in the Ralph Sampson days. The point is well taken; however, I would like to balance the argument by mentioning a much smaller school that has done rather well in the big arena...

....Gonzaga.

A lot of people in California don't even know for sure where North Dakota is. The bitter arguments seem petty from down here. I'd welcome seeing UND "and" NDSU scores on espn. I'd also welcome a conference with NDSU, UND, SDSU, and a few other programs in the midwest.

But please folks.....you should try to back off of the bitterness. I wouldn't blame UND for protecting its great hockey program. I don't blame NDSU for wanting to return to greatness in football. UND Hockey fans are accustomed to a great caliber of hockey. NDSU football fans are accustomed to a great caliber of football.

It's about quality folks. North Dakotans should support "quality" at both schools...and get a life as far as the fighting. No one outside of North Dakota cares.....at all....nor do they notice. But they do notice things like UND in the Frozen Four and NDSU upsetting Wisconsin.

Sorry for the rambling....but I am really getting tired of this debate. If UND wants to stay at DII...so be it. NDSU made the move. So be it.

Let it go. UND either moves up.....or it doesn't. But leave NDSU's decision out of the mix. I'm pretty sure that the leadership at NDSU, from the president on down, have lost their share of sleep over the decision. The win at Wisconsin was a nice reward for the people that have taken the hits for making the move. None of them, I'm sure, believe that this upset has established the DI program. It's just one feather in the cap.

But I will say...after driving up to see NDSU play at Cal Poly (along the beach) and at UC Davis...I've seen some pretty amazing football. Playing at those beautiful schools is like a bowl game in a beautiful setting. And it's only going to get better.

I went to the Frozen Four in Anaheim a while back. That wasn't too shabby either.

If there is blame to be handed out....if there is anger that is appropriate....it should be directed at the ncaa for allowing the demise of DII. That's where the problem started. The DII that many of us loved so much is gone.

The Bison have just returned home with their football program. It was a no-brainer for the leadership at NDSU. It had to be done.

UND fans. Deal with "your" dilemma. And it "is" a dilemma. And it "is" understandable. I look forward to the day when the rivalry returns to a more normal form of hatred.

The current environment isn't healthy for anyone.

[dlsiouxfan]

Fair enough.... I know of another sight you should visit it's called bisonville.com. I expect to see a post like this tomorrow.

[informant]

Fair enough.... I know of another sight you should visit it's called bisonville.com. I expect to see a post like this tomorrow.

I'll visit the site. Are you saying that I should post it? That's what I'm assuming. I've written this type of letter to the Fargo Forum....and it was published. I know that SU people can be obnoxious. But it's no different in Grand Forks. There's an arrogant pride at both schools. But it's gone beyond a rivalry. It's not healthy.

For the time being...I see no need for the two schools to play each other. The hatred has gotten way out of hand.

Sioux country needs to solve its own problems and not worry about what's happening in Fargo.

Until things calm down in Grand Forks, I won't have much real interest in UND. Either accept the DII status...or find the money and make the move.

[redwing77]

I'll visit the site. Are you saying that I should post it? That's what I'm assuming. I've written this type of letter to the Fargo Forum....and it was published. I know that SU people can be obnoxious. But it's no different in Grand Forks. There's an arrogant pride at both schools. But it's gone beyond a rivalry. It's not healthy.

For the time being...I see no need for the two schools to play each other. The hatred has gotten way out of hand.

Sioux country needs to solve its own problems and not worry about what's happening in Fargo.

Until things calm down in Grand Forks, I won't have much real interest in UND. Either accept the DII status...or find the money and make the move.

So are you saying that the issues between NDSU and UND come mostly from the folks at UND/Grand Forks?

If so, then yeah, I suggest going to bisonville.com. They're more prone to agreeing with you. They see us in that light while we see us as sayiing "NDSU is DI in football. Why should a DII program play a DI program?" Same as in basketball. Oh, and by the way, talk to an NDSU fan or two and see what they say about UND Hockey. If they care at all, they'll disagree and say that hockey may be the "flagship" of UND but NDSU basketball is the "flagship" of North Dakota.

There's no doubt I take pride in UND and the folks of Grand Forks, ND. But as a resident of Fargo, ND (have been since 1979 for the most part) I can tell you wholeheartedly that the "unhealthy relationship" is very much NOT UND/Grand Forks. Maybe there is some at UND but there is a LOT at NDSU/Fargo.

As for "accept the DII status or make the move" That's your opinion, but it appears the only people who haven't accepted UND's status are NDSU fans. We're very comfortable in our position. Financially it makes sense. Besides, there is NO WHERE for our teams to go conference wise in DIAA. NDSU fans know that about their team after getting snubbed twice now. I'm happy for NDSU at their new level, sure. But if they can't accept UND's status then they need to get a life.

[bigmrg74]

Ohh... Ohhh... Oohhho!! Can I be the one to turn on the flashing red light and announce that there's a Skippy alert??

[BigGame]

It's my opinion that both schools should have moved up in the early to mid 90s. I respect UND for its recent successes in football, and other sports. But I respectfully say that the caliber of play in DII football has dropped rather dramatically. I've watched a few of UND's playoff games on TV...and those teams were really good. But they are a shadow of past teams...either at UND or at NDSU. It's the caliber of play...and players. I went to Concordia College...and frankly...DII (even in the playoffs)...reminds me of old Cobber teams, and teams like St. Johns. They were good, but the rosters were spotty. That...to me...is what UND looks like now. That's how I saw NDSU in the past decade or so. Good teams....but not even close to the old dynasty days.

I have to break it to you but your opinion is off a little, yes 1AA is a small step up from D2 but it is a minor step and UND would be competative almost instantly if they moved up. 1aa only applies to football so the other sports must compete at the D1 level and there will be some issues with different sports in UND moves up. Claiming the level of play has essentially dropped to the D3 level a joke. You say you have watched a few UND playoff football games and made your opinion. Have you physically been to a game? or watched the 1AA and D3 playoff games to compare? You have to be able to campare the levels side by side to get a real idea of what similar and different about the levels. It seems to me you're caught up in the past and wanting that to have been better football, but it really isn't valid.

It's funny you think Rocky Hager was just a scape goat, because he was the only reason I made a choice to play football at UND over NDSU.

I would like to see UND move up if everything falls into place (money, commitment, conference, etc). If these things are not in place the move up could be a huge mistake. D2 seems to be attempting or discussing splitting the D2 level for football, it's late in the game for this but it's certainly better than the situation D2 is in right now.

[SiouxMD]

The win in Madison was a Miracle on Hardwood for NDSU.

The Miracle on Hardwood on Ice...?

[SiouxMD]

Ohh... Ohhh... Oohhho!! Can I be the one to turn on the flashing red light and announce that there's a Skippy alert??

Go shine your trophy...

[The Sicatoka]

There's no doubt I take pride in UND and the folks of Grand Forks, ND. But as a resident of Fargo, ND (have been since 1979 for the most part) I can tell you wholeheartedly that the "unhealthy relationship" is very much NOT UND/Grand Forks. Maybe there is some at UND but there is a LOT at NDSU/Fargo.

As for "accept the DII status or make the move" That's your opinion, but it appears the only people who haven't accepted UND's status are NDSU fans. We're very comfortable in our position. Financially it makes sense. Besides, there is NO WHERE for our teams to go conference wise in DIAA. NDSU fans know that about their team after getting snubbed twice now. I'm happy for NDSU at their new level, sure. But if they can't accept UND's status then they need to get a life.

Regard each of those paragraphs: Yup, and yup.

As far as "DI":

Answer me "conference" and "cost" and you'll have the answer.

Heck, answer one of 'em and you'll have the answer.

[PCM]

Here are some questions for "informant."

1. How does moving up to DI-AA automatically return NDSU to the glory days of being a college football dynasty? Or is having NDSU listed on the ESPN sports ticker just as meaningful as winning national championships?

2. If NDSU couldn't compete for championships in football at the "watered down" DII level, why should anyone believe that it will soon become a DI-AA powerhouse?

3. For every Gonzaga in the college basketball world, how many other universities are facing financial difficulties because they moved to DI with stars in their eyes and promises of untold riches?

4. If NDSU didn't make the move to DI with the idea that its men's basketball team would become the university's marquee sport, why should we believe that the Bison victory over Wisconsin is anything more than a brief moment of fleeting success?

5. If the rivalry was so important to both schools, why did NDSU ruin it?

[FargoBison]

So are you saying that the issues between NDSU and UND come mostly from the folks at UND/Grand Forks?

If so, then yeah, I suggest going to bisonville.com. They're more prone to agreeing with you. They see us in that light while we see us as sayiing "NDSU is DI in football. Why should a DII program play a DI program?" Same as in basketball. Oh, and by the way, talk to an NDSU fan or two and see what they say about UND Hockey. If they care at all, they'll disagree and say that hockey may be the "flagship" of UND but NDSU basketball is the "flagship" of North Dakota.

There's no doubt I take pride in UND and the folks of Grand Forks, ND. But as a resident of Fargo, ND (have been since 1979 for the most part) I can tell you wholeheartedly that the "unhealthy relationship" is very much NOT UND/Grand Forks. Maybe there is some at UND but there is a LOT at NDSU/Fargo.

I will admit that NDSU has some blame in causing the "unhealthy relationship" but UND has just as much blame. Do you remember UND Fargo, UND trying taking over NDSU Pharmacy Project, fight over whether NDSU should add more grad programs, UND Admins making NDSU's move to DI as hard as they could, and even back in the day UND fought NDSU over whether NDSU had the right to call themselves NDSU and not NDAC. As for the flagship sport at NDSU it is still football and even though basketball is doing good NDSU hoops still has away to go until reaches football status among the Bison fathful. I also put NDSU football and UND hockey as being the flagships sports of ND both have similar status and popularity.

[He Who Shoots Top Shelf]

As for the flagship sport at NDSU it is still football and even though basketball is doing good NDSU hoops still has away to go until reaches football status among the Bison fathful.

I believe the basketball team is doing well, there is that NDSU education paying off again

[redwing77]

I will admit that NDSU has some blame in causing the "unhealthy relationship" but UND has just as much blame. Do you remember UND Fargo, UND trying taking over NDSU Pharmacy Project, fight over whether NDSU should add more grad programs, UND Admins making NDSU's move to DI as hard as they could, and even back in the day UND fought NDSU over whether NDSU had the right to call themselves NDSU and not NDAC. As for the flagship sport at NDSU it is still football and even though basketball is doing good NDSU hoops still has away to go until reaches football status among the Bison fathful. I also put NDSU football and UND hockey as being the flagships sports of ND both have similar status and popularity.

I never said ONLY in my post. I said some bad attitudes at UND may exist. I'll be the first one to tell you that the only reason why I've ceased calling for Kupchella's dismissal from UND's presidency is his fight against the NCAA for the nickname issue.

UND isn't the only school to move in on the Fargo area. The University of Mary I believe has a campus there. Also, the Pharmacy project is something I don't know about so no comment there. UND does have a strong relationship between its med school and the VA hospital. Also to a certain extent with Meritcare hospital. But in relation to what the "informant" has stated, my point is still valid.

I still maintain that the only fans in this state that are uncomfortable with UND's divisional status are NDSU fans. We're happy being DII in every sport save hockey. Sure, we're investigating the move and some argue that's the main reason our new AD was hired, but right now, NDSU has had troubles (no where near SDSU's troubles though) finding a conference and UND, IMO to their credit, doesn't want to go through with the uncertainty that NDSU has found itself in.

[Bison Dan]

I never said ONLY in my post. I said some bad attitudes at UND may exist. I'll be the first one to tell you that the only reason why I've ceased calling for Kupchella's dismissal from UND's presidency is his fight against the NCAA for the nickname issue.

UND isn't the only school to move in on the Fargo area. The University of Mary I believe has a campus there. Also, the Pharmacy project is something I don't know about so no comment there. UND does have a strong relationship between its med school and the VA hospital. Also to a certain extent with Meritcare hospital. But in relation to what the "informant" has stated, my point is still valid.

I still maintain that the only fans in this state that are uncomfortable with UND's divisional status are NDSU fans. We're happy being DII in every sport save hockey. Sure, we're investigating the move and some argue that's the main reason our new AD was hired, but right now, NDSU has had troubles (no where near SDSU's troubles though) finding a conference and UND, IMO to their credit, doesn't want to go through with the uncertainty that NDSU has found itself in.

I know of no Bison fans that are worried about UND's divisional status, just some UND fans. Why would NDSU fans be worried? If your happy with your divisional status great, but NDSU has moved on. Why are you investigating the move if things are so great? What are you going to say if UND decides to move up this year? (without a conference & funding)

[teamsioux]

If you have moved on, what the heck are you doing on the Sioux board then? Remember, UND/GF's biggest criticism of the Bison was why not wait and find out more details, especially about a conference....how's that going? The Bison rushed in head over heals to actually think in their own minds they had one up on UND for once. If the Bison and SDSU had waited a few more years it probably would have been easier for everyone.

[Bison Dan]

If you have moved on, what the heck are you doing on the Sioux board then? Remember, UND/GF's biggest criticism of the Bison was why not wait and find out more details, especially about a conference....how's that going? The Bison rushed in head over heals to actually think in their own minds they had one up on UND for once. If the Bison and SDSU had waited a few more years it probably would have been easier for everyone.

Wait for WHAT? A conference to come along and say move on up and you can join. It isn't going to happen in the midwest.

[SiouxMD]

...but NDSU has moved on.

At 3:17 PM on February 9th, 2006...NDSU MOVED ON.

Someone call McFeely...

[redwing77]

I know of no Bison fans that are worried about UND's divisional status, just some UND fans. Why would NDSU fans be worried? If your happy with your divisional status great, but NDSU has moved on. Why are you investigating the move if things are so great? What are you going to say if UND decides to move up this year? (without a conference & funding)

Did you even read the informant's post or did you skim down until you found my post, took it out of context and then jumped all over me?

Maybe you weren't around when NDSU made the jump to DI because, on this board, there were TONS of NDSU fans coming on here to point fingers on us for ruining the rivalry, saying DII sucks so either jump or take a hike, and so on and so forth. No, I don't see many UND fans worrying about the DII status of our school at all. Sure, there are people who think that moving up would be a good idea and that's great, but just because some of us do think that DIAA is a possibility doesn't mean that where we are at isn't great!

And what would I say if we moved up this year? I'd once again start calling for Kupchella's head! We don't have the money and the conferences at least to make the move as it stands right now! That's without doing the research into the other requirements for getting in!

If you have moved on, that's great. But it's plainly obvious that many of your brethren have not.

[informant]

So are you saying that the issues between NDSU and UND come mostly from the folks at UND/Grand Forks?

If so, then yeah, I suggest going to bisonville.com. They're more prone to agreeing with you. They see us in that light while we see us as sayiing "NDSU is DI in football. Why should a DII program play a DI program?" Same as in basketball. Oh, and by the way, talk to an NDSU fan or two and see what they say about UND Hockey. If they care at all, they'll disagree and say that hockey may be the "flagship" of UND but NDSU basketball is the "flagship" of North Dakota.

There's no doubt I take pride in UND and the folks of Grand Forks, ND. But as a resident of Fargo, ND (have been since 1979 for the most part) I can tell you wholeheartedly that the "unhealthy relationship" is very much NOT UND/Grand Forks. Maybe there is some at UND but there is a LOT at NDSU/Fargo.

As for "accept the DII status or make the move" That's your opinion, but it appears the only people who haven't accepted UND's status are NDSU fans. We're very comfortable in our position. Financially it makes sense. Besides, there is NO WHERE for our teams to go conference wise in DIAA. NDSU fans know that about their team after getting snubbed twice now. I'm happy for NDSU at their new level, sure. But if they can't accept UND's status then they need to get a life.

Hi, I think that I wrote about inappropriate hatred and a lack of class at both schools. I have read many, many articles and postings on this site about whether UND should move up or not. I know some SU fans that could really care less what happens at UND. They're not angry. They just don't care. I fall somewhere in the middle...as I tried to explain. A lot of people agree with me about the caliber of football. The roster is filling out with size, speed, and talent. SU is grabbing some out-state talent that wouldn't have come north without the DI-AA label. And I've noticed that a majority of the bigger talent in the Dakotas are gravitating to Fargo and the chance to play DI-AA football. I do detect a problem in the UND community. If you're interested in a pissing contest.....then I'd say that UND has had something to do with the problem. Cancelling all competitions with SU was pretty low-class. But as far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't play for quite a while. UND can play Crookston, Southwest State, and other big programs. It's really not a problem. For me...I'd rather watch SU play Montana, Montana State, UC Davis, Cal Poly SLO, Southern Utah...and soon...Minnesota. Win or lose, it's just more interesting. It beats the hell out of the old days of playing Morningside, Augustana, St. Cloud, Mankato, etc.

Basketball the flagship program at NDSU? Really? Bison football is light years ahead in that category. Through the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s....on the average....it was the most successful DII program in the country. Over the span of time....NDSU was the most dominant team in the history of the division. On the UND side, the men's basketball has been dominant. And the hockey is a huge deal. I support it. I even toured the Ralph with some pride last summer....even though it was built with Vegas mafia money. Whatever.

If you want to lay the blame on NDSU totally....you are misguided. I'd say it's an even split. I'm trying to say that I've been a fan of both schools. But you don't want me to go there....do you? I'm not your typical Bison fan. I have cheered for both over the years.

[informant]

I have to break it to you but your opinion is off a little, yes 1AA is a small step up from D2 but it is a minor step and UND would be competative almost instantly if they moved up. 1aa only applies to football so the other sports must compete at the D1 level and there will be some issues with different sports in UND moves up. Claiming the level of play has essentially dropped to the D3 level a joke. You say you have watched a few UND playoff football games and made your opinion. Have you physically been to a game? or watched the 1AA and D3 playoff games to compare? You have to be able to campare the levels side by side to get a real idea of what similar and different about the levels. It seems to me you're caught up in the past and wanting that to have been better football, but it really isn't valid.

It's funny you think Rocky Hager was just a scape goat, because he was the only reason I made a choice to play football at UND over NDSU.

I would like to see UND move up if everything falls into place (money, commitment, conference, etc). If these things are not in place the move up could be a huge mistake. D2 seems to be attempting or discussing splitting the D2 level for football, it's late in the game for this but it's certainly better than the situation D2 is in right now.

Your points are well taken. I have seen NDSU football consistently. I saw them in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and lately I've driven up the coast to watch them at UC Davis, Cal Poly...and even went to Southern Utah. The progress has been amazing. The level of play has risen sharply. You're right...I haven't seen UND in person lately. I shouldn't compare them to D3. SU fans are split about Rocky. Maybe he wasn't your kind of coach...but I suspect that working under Bob Entzion wasn't exactly comforting. Rocky took the hit for whatever happened there. That can't be denied. I say that it's too late for D2. It's gone. Most of the really strong programs have moved up. Many of NDSU's past playoff opponents have made the move. Troy State went DI. The recruits are gravitating toward Fargo now. If you were any good, it's too bad that you didn't have the experience of playing in a Bison uniform. Yeah....the tradition involves history. Bison fans want the quality back. And it is coming back. I "have" seen that in person. If UND Hockey went down....coaches would be fired and all hell would break loose. UND fans would want the "history" back.

[informant]

The Miracle on Hardwood on Ice...?

If you don't get it....that's OK. Maybe you practice playing stupid.

[UND-1]

What the hell is going on here with the influx of imposters? The last two posts by Informant have talked about NDSU for about 95% of them. We had that other guy, Bombdiggidi or something and now this guy says he is neutral and has followed both teams but slowly his posts have gravitated to the South.

Please make it stop. Leave us alone.

[informant]

Here are some questions for "informant."

1. How does moving up to DI-AA automatically return NDSU to the glory days of being a college football dynasty? Or is having NDSU listed on the ESPN sports ticker just as meaningful as winning national championships?

Nothing is automatic....but have you noticed a slight change in the recruiting for blue-chippers in the region? The most successful football program in D2 history is something that makes Bison fans very proud. But the caliber of play had dropped very dramatically. There is already a noticeable change.

2. If NDSU couldn't compete for championships in football at the "watered down" DII level, why should anyone believe that it will soon become a DI-AA powerhouse?

Things go in cycles. Beating the s&!t out of UND couldn't go on forever. There was a leadership problem at NDSU that contributed. That's gone. So is D2. It's dead. But really....people were getting tired of watching the demise of D2 football.

3. For every Gonzaga in the college basketball world, how many other universities are facing financial difficulties because they moved to DI with stars in their eyes and promises of untold riches?

No doubt. Fargo has the money. Money isn't a problem in the F-M area. You know that. Old Bison contributors were going away because of what they were watching. I'm actually related to two of the bigger backers...and they said that they wouldn't write any more checks if things didn't improve. They're both excited now...and the money is rolling in. Fargo is filthy rich. They'll support a quality program....and seeing North Dakota State on espn off and on won't hurt their egos. Fargo is a unique community that loves its sports programs.

And oh....doesn't it cost money to run a DI hockey program? If money is a big concern, UND should go down a level in hockey. Use the Ralph for car shows and tractor pulls. Or maybe it could be turned into a casino. That's where the money came from anyway. Hefner's money....as in Vegas mafia money. But hell, money isn't an issue with hockey is it? My mistake.

4. If NDSU didn't make the move to DI with the idea that its men's basketball team would become the university's marquee sport, why should we believe that the Bison victory over Wisconsin is anything more than a brief moment of fleeting success?

No one at SU sees the win at Wisconsin as a stable thing. It was a one-time event that surprised the Badgers. But I would suggest that Tim Miles is enjoying the ride in DI and the challenges. He's a competitor. I know him from his Mayville days. If basketball grows at SU because of the move up....that's great.

5. If the rivalry was so important to both schools, why did NDSU ruin it?

What you mean is "why didn't SU stick around and wait for UND?" Apparently, UND backers feel that the level of play between DI-AA and DII isn't all that different....so why did UND cancel all of the games? You've got it a little backwards. UND pulled out. I could care less at this point.

[dakotadan]

A bison fan coming here telling us we need to let things go.

Go read bisonville and the many, many posts trashing UND and Grand Forks, then come back here and try telling us we need to let things go.

[informant]

One small correction... UND fans are accustomed to a great caliber of both hockey and football. NDSU fans were accustomed to a great caliber of football in the '80s and early '90s.

60s, 70s, 80s, and early 90s.....the best D2 football program in history....with a few cycles of ups and downs. Be proud of UND. That's fine. You can be proud of UND beating up on Crookston, Southwest State, St. Cloud.....etc. When SU played Moorhead State it was an embarrassment. That's what UND is doing. UND football hasn't risen. D2 has lowered itself and most of the big programs have left. UND can enjoy being a big fish in a small pond. I have no problem with that. Maybe in the future UND should do a home & home with Minot, or maybe Mayville State? It would save money. Think about it.