Student Behavior @ The Ralph

[siouxjoy]

I see your point.

However, really, what has the AD done to us that makes them worthy of trust and a positive outlook? They've taken things away from us since before the REA was built! They are always taking taking taking either in chunks or in little pieces here and there.

In order to take, there must be a give, no? Well, where's the give?

If you are at work and the boss is always taking stuff away from you such as your time with your family, a once-promised bonus, or some sort of reward and instead giving you more and more work to do instead, aren't you eventually going to say "Wait a minute, pal?" sooner or later? Sure, you have freedom to quit in this example and find another job, but the students don't have such a luxury. We love our team and there's nowhere else to go. So it is either cower and beg or stand up and fight. What course should they take?

The most likely scenario is that the students are about to lose again. Who knows what they'll lose this time. It could be a whole section, it could be part of one in the lower bowl. Roger Thomas said giving the students some leniancy would be akin to rewarding them. Well, I certainly hope that's not the attitude by Buning.

Oh, and one last thing: Before the old "you can work with them" bit comes into play, think of this: Students have been trying to work with the AD for years now to no avail. None, or very little of our suggestions have actually been implemented and there is a strong feeling that even if feasible, we're being ignored. If you are going to be ignored, why work in a unilateral partnership?

I guess I dont' see things as dismal as you do.

Maybe I am wrong, but the last time there were big debates on the student section, weren't Roger Thomas and Todd Berning involved? Neither of them are around. How do you know Buning and Hodgson have the same views as the previous folks? And if they do, why can't there be a reasonable discussion to help them see both sides?

I haven't been a full-time student since 2000, so I have never been a part of the new REA student section debate, I admit it. But, I refuse to believe that it is as one-sided as some believe. Call me an optimist.

I am just not sold that all is doomed and the students need to "fight"

You talk about suggestions, but how hard have students (or REA staff) fought for those suggestions to be implemented? I have been a season ticket holder since the first season in the Ralph, so I have been at nearly all of the games. I remember the attempts to have the words to the school song placed on the big screen. The person running the screen sucked, and the timing was off, so no one sang along. Bummer. But, it was never tried again. What's up with that? I think you have to make a few attempts at something before you can totally quit.

My opinion is that there are some really great students that can make a big difference, but it is going to take a little bit of work (I know, easy for me to say, but I am willing to help how ever I can). Right now the dumb**ses are the faces of the student hockey fans at UND. A little bit of organization and that could change in a hurry. I firmly believe we can make the Ralph a place all players fear.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[cheppi]

It has been said before but the standing issue can probably be solved by putting the student on the ends where they won't block the down ice view of nearby fans. Arguments for the students wanting to be near the box and season ticket holders who prefer the end/corner seats has been presented but wouldn't this move easily solve the larger problem. Students could then stand and the other ticket holders wouldn't have to look over those needing to stand.

I hated the students standing at the old ralph but I had the option of sitting elsewhere. near the top rows by the press box, or in the corners was much preferred. The students should be allowed to stand and yell, they are the ones that drive the crowd noise.

just my 2 cents

GO SIOUX we need a split

[#1 Sioux Fan]

It shouldn't be a big surprise as to what the atmosphere is at a UND hockey game. IMO, if you don't like it then don't go. You knew what you were getting into when you bought the tickets. Nobody held a gun to anybody's head to purchase those tickets and/or suites. If standing and cussing bothers you then I am sure there is plenty of good entertainment on Daystar, and they would be glad to take your money as well.

If you don't like it don't go is the case than students if they don't like the rules than go home and watch the games on FSN. You knew what the REA and other season ticket holders wanted- so YOU stay away!! Your arguement is week, you only pay 55 or 60 dollars a season - you get by cheap. try like up wards of a thousand and above. I don't mean to make an example of your comments, but I have seen it too many times on this post!!

[#1 Sioux Fan]

Don't bring your kids, because of the behavior and stop complaining, kids have no reason to be at a college game....

WHAT??? Do these kids have no chance at having a shot at becoming the next Phil or Nick on the team - I guess you are in charge there!!!

[Diggler]

But students have to pay thousands of dollars to go to school.

[#1 Sioux Fan]

But students have to pay thousands of dollars to go to school.

So did I. So should every alumnus have to put up with standing students, even the ones who put tens of thousands of dollars on the line?? I just don't see how swearing and yelling bring the Sioux to the next level of play. I hate to say it, we got beat tonight - if this game was in GF, watch out the language would have been nasty - Hay it's just a game!!!!!! I realize you students love Sioux sports - so do I, but there is a fine line that is drawn - that is dividing Sioux spirit from Sioux disgrace - As stated earilier, I really think that there is a small number of students that are bring the heat to the student section - wether or no that changes is to be seen.

[Diggler]

No. I was making fun of the students who say that. Everyone pays a good amount of money in one way or another to go to these games. that's why instead of always arguing about it with each other, something should actually be done. Arguing about the same things every year doesn't solve anything. Both sides have to be willing to actually give something up and right now it seems like neither side is willing to give anything up.

[#1 Sioux Fan]

No. I was making fun of the students who say that. Everyone pays a good amount of money in one way or another to go to these games. that's why instead of always arguing about it with each other, something should actually be done. Arguing about the same things every year doesn't solve anything. Both sides have to be willing to actually give something up and right now it seems like neither side is willing to give anything up.

I couldn't agree more, there must be a way to join the season ticket holders to the students. Wether we learn to spell Sioux or North Dakota (pretty tricky campared to Minnesota!!) - there has got to be a way cheer on this team that is in desperate need of a helping hand

[SiouxTupa]

In my honest opinion (I'm spelling it out for you who are acronymically challenged), the standing, swearing, and general "bad" behavior would not be nearly as "dire" of an issue if the nickname wasn't "hostile and abusive".

Basically, if we were the bulldogs, snakes, fishermen.... there wouldn't be as much of a focus on behavior as it reflected back on the school. For instance, everytime you're told to go out and represent your school, or the "Sioux", and don't deliver it puts more pressure on the administration to change the name. Would it be the same way if we were representing inanimate objects? Or some type of reptile?

It seems that these two discussions (fan behavior, nickname) go hand in hand. If we lose the nickname will everyone look the other way? Absolutely not...

Change the name, do it, it'll be done, no more issue. I, and I'm sure many others, are sick of hearing about it, and really, there's no stopping it. I hate it, but it's probably true.

I LOVE the nickname, but I HATE these issues because the "discussions" never go ANYWHERE!! I'm at the point where I'd almost rather watch the game on TV, and stand and cheer by my own terms without a cop peering at me from behind the railing. I don't mean this to start another "you don't have to stand to be loud" debate, BUT I know that I am more inclined to be loud when I stand. Call it stupid, but I believe it in my heart, and it's a verifiable fact. I'm not an outrageous person, in fact I'm pretty quiet. At Sioux games I can be loud, but if I'm sitting it's usually a bad sign.

I am finishing school in August. Having to read about and participate in these types of issues has basically instilled one large migraine through the entire course of my 5-year college career. I care so deeply for this school and it's athletic teams, but I'm getting really sick of having to defend it, and myself, all the time. However, I CAN'T WAIT to pay "way more than students" to get season tickets. In my opinion, they are worth every penny.

BTW, KIDS LOVE HOCKEY GAMES! I don't know who said that, but seriously?!?! How many of us would be here on this site if we hadn't been to the old barns and been brought up as fans?

I HATE the prospect of not going to a game. Once I spent an entire day sicker than hell, and somehow dragged myself out to stand in line for 4 hours in sub zero weather. Then at the game, I felt so ill I could barely keep from passing out (no I was not drunk). I stayed until the final whistle...that was in my Freshman year; we lost that game 6-0 against Mankato.

I'm not giving up, though it may sound like it. Hell, after reading my own post several times I don't know if it makes sense anymore. The only thing certain for me in this situation right now is that I love hockey, especially UND hockey...and that I have to work in the morning. Tomorrow, I'll get off work and turn on FSN and watch a crowd at an arena that has it's ducks in a row.

I'm sorry for the length and randomness. I just wish that I came to UND at a time when this was all figured out, or wasn't an issue. It's like being the awkward teenager....we're just waiting to grow up as an institution.

[engelbunny]

Just some thoughts on the discussion.

The nickname, in my opinion, has nothing to do with this issue. It is simply about the standing.

Go ahead and jump up and cheer when the situation calls for it: a breakaway, a big hit, a possible fight, an important face-off, etc. Nobody cares about that. What is driving this whole situation is the Student's desire to stand all the time. It is standing just for standings sake, because you know it is pissing people off. Most of the time, the student section isn't even cheering. Many of them are just standing with their hands in their pockets and looking around with a kind of a smug satisfied look because they know they are irritating the season ticketholders around them.

The "they should stay home and watch it on TV" arguement is just simply not a winner for the students. Simple economics will dictate that the students will lose this issue. When person x is paying $1,500 for his seat and student y is paying $60, ... well, I think you can figure that one out.

Look, sure it is a hockey game. People that go should, and do, expect that there will be some unruly behavor and rough language. But when they pay good money to go and see the game, they expect to be able to see the game, not some student's ass. They also don't expect to be told to F*** themselves if they ask the said student to stop blocking their view. Would those same students tell their own parents or grandparents to go and F*** themselves if they asked them to sit down. Well, most all of those season ticket holders are someone's parents or grandparents, and so the disrespect is pretty hard for them to take.

[The Sicatoka]

In deference to PCM, he quoted the wrong portion of the 35-page response from UND to the NCAA.

In an on-going effort to make athletic competition enjoyable for the whole community, an issue important to the NCAA, the University has produced a series of advertisements, which have been shown at the Ralph Engelstad Arena. One endorses the theme,

[Siouxdonyms]

The "they should stay home and watch it on TV" arguement is just simply not a winner for the students. Simple economics will dictate that the students will lose this issue. When person x is paying $1,500 for his seat and student y is paying $60, ... well, I think you can figure that one out.

Or maybe the entire student body at UND should boycott the university, which would therefore lead to the end of Fighting Sioux hockey. That would end the problem too. The students pay activities fee, and every other type of fee imaginable, on top of the price of their season tickets. I personally believe it should be like at the old Ralph, where students don't pay a thing to support their hockey team. The students have an argument here, and should have a say in things as well, as it's their university. Sitting down and saying nothing will do nothing for them. You can have all the alumni support in the world, but without students, you don't have a university. I'm not saying alumni support isn't important. However, the students bending over and grabbing their ankles isn't the answer either.

[BringDeanBack]

Or maybe the entire student body at UND should boycott the university, which would therefore lead to the end of Fighting Sioux hockey. That would end the problem too. The students pay activities fee, and every other type of fee imaginable, on top of the price of their season tickets. I personally believe it should be like at the old Ralph, where students don't pay a thing to support their hockey team. The students have an argument here, and should have a say in things as well, as it's their university. Sitting down and saying nothing will do nothing for them. You can have all the alumni support in the world, but without students, you don't have a university. I'm not saying alumni support isn't important. However, the students bending over and grabbing their ankles isn't the answer either.

I am guessing the state subsidies (the North Dakota tax payer) pays much more towards UND than student tuition and fees do. I don't have the numbers though.

[siouxmantoo]

Its a fricken hockey game not a tennis match. I think games at the Old Ralph were more fun and wild then the New Ralph. I know we have one the best or thee best arena and its a honor to play there but come on crowd lightened up a little bit and have some damn fun. It's seem since the new ralph no one wants to get wild and crazy which you can do without causeing trouble. People just wanna sit there and have fricken social hour all game. If you even get up and get a little crazy people look at you like your nutz. If it wasn't for the Student Section maken noise I get this feeling I'm sitting at a tennis match because its so quiet in there. When the student section get's wild and crazy people complain and they get looked done on for cheering and having fun at a hockey. come on that is totally retarded. I am a huge fan of the sioux but at Gopher games its like a complete 360 from their crowd at home to our crowd at home. Man that whole place get's rocking chatting, cheering and so on. You don't see that at the ralph from our whole crowd. Well bottom line is this is hockey and not a tennis match and for the fans that wanna have social hour the whole game go to the fricken bar or something and give your tickets up to fan's that wanna take part in the game.

Go Sioux....

Joey

[engelbunny]

Or maybe the entire student body at UND should boycott the university, which would therefore lead to the end of Fighting Sioux hockey. That would end the problem too. The students pay activities fee, and every other type of fee imaginable, on top of the price of their season tickets. I personally believe it should be like at the old Ralph, where students don't pay a thing to support their hockey team. The students have an argument here, and should have a say in things as well, as it's their university. Sitting down and saying nothing will do nothing for them. You can have all the alumni support in the world, but without students, you don't have a university. I'm not saying alumni support isn't important. However, the students bending over and grabbing their ankles isn't the answer either.

I'm not saying the students should "bend over and grab their ankles". But they should stop shoving their own foots in their own rear-ends.

The argument boils down to this: Students want to stand all the time, and the season tickets holders want to be able to see. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. So all of the other stuff you mention is meaningless unless it is used for justification for the ability to stand and block someone else's view.

I am student so I can stand. I pay activity fees so I can stand. I have to pay for hockey tickets now when I used to get in free so I deserve the right to stand. You can't have a university without students, so we will stand if we want. Blah, blah blah. It makes no sense. You are arguing that the student's right to be disrespectful trumps all other rights. That is a loser argument on so many levels, the easiest one being the economics of the situation.

So the students need to relieve themselves of their disdain for "the man" and go the meeting with the attitude of making a positive. If they don't, they will lose, plain and simple.

I personally think that part of the problem is the method of ticketing for the students. (And ticketing is a UND athletic department issue, not an REA issue.) Anyway, I think the lower bowl seats should go to the die hard student fans. Let 'em camp out for 3 days to get the tickets if they want. Those are the students who are more apt to understand the situation and be cognizant of the stakes.

[siouxmantoo]

[/quote

One important series at the end of last year, a lady right in back of us was reading a flipping book during the game. What a joke. We were in section 306. Their is alot of people taking up a good sioux fans seat. I dont think theirs much of a home ice advantage. Too many people their just to be seen. That building needs more true sioux college hockey fans !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sioux-cia]

Or maybe the entire student body at UND should boycott the university, which would therefore lead to the end of Fighting Sioux hockey.

I want to responds to this but can't stop laughing. Sorry....

[Goon]

For example: I like to have an occasional adult beverage but I HATE cigarette smoke. My solution to this problem is not to go into every bar in town and then proceed to ask every one in there to put their cigarettes out. I just CHOOSE not to go and spend my money in those places and choose places that are non smoking. Seems pretty simple to me.

Seems to me that Buffalo Wild Wings doesn't allow smoking because when I left there last night I didn't smell like smoke.

[Goon]

No. I was making fun of the students who say that. Everyone pays a good amount of money in one way or another to go to these games. that's why instead of always arguing about it with each other, something should actually be done. Arguing about the same things every year doesn't solve anything. Both sides have to be willing to actually give something up and right now it seems like neither side is willing to give anything up.

Exactly the administration has been bringing up the same tired old argument each and every year since the new ralph has been open and we are still sitting at the same point in the argument we were 4 years ago. We have solved nothing.

[GDM]

Rarely do I chime in but in this case I feel I must.

Friday I'll be taking three folks, who are 11000 miles from home, to their first ever ice hockey game. They are from a country UND is trying to create stronger ties with (India). This will also be their first and probably only exposure to the University of North Dakota, its campus and students. We will be sitting across the aisle from the student section.

What impressions of my alma mater will today's student body give to these folks? What impressions of UND will these folks take back with them? I'm sure I'm not an exception. I'm sure there's something similar at every game. And I know that same impression is beamed by satellite around the continent every game also.

What impression are folks getting is the question.

GDM

Forums Moderator

[Goon]

Rarely do I chime in but in this case I feel I must.

Friday I'll be taking three folks, who are 11000 miles from home, to their first ever ice hockey game. They are from a country UND is trying to create stronger ties with (India). This will also be their first and probably only exposure to the University of North Dakota, its campus and students. We will be sitting across the aisle from the student section.

What impressions of my alma mater will today's student body give to these folks? What impressions of UND will these folks take back with them? I'm sure I'm not an exception. I'm sure there's something similar at every game. And I know that same impression is beamed by satellite around the continent every game also.

What impression are folks getting is the question.

GDM

Forums Moderator

I would suggest giving them ear muffs.

[Sioux-cia]

One important series at the end of last year, a lady right in back of us was reading a flipping book during the game. What a joke. We were in section 306. Their is alot of people taking up a good sioux fans seat. I dont think theirs much of a home ice advantage. Too many people their just to be seen. That building needs more true sioux college hockey fans !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVERY game I go to, and that is every game, I see students who are sitting in the student section whose sole reason for being there is to get drunk-guys and gals sucking those big beers down as fast as they can and getting 'em filled just as fast; to be with their honey-girls looking totally bored as their dates are watching the game AND to be seen - guys and gals looking everywhere but at the game.

So enough of this @rap about some season ticket holders only going to the games to be seen, socialize, or sit in the bar. Goes both ways!

Again as suggested, go to the meeting, hat in hand (that means respectfully, not bent over), propose alternatives and work with the AD and REA. This subject has been brought up many times and many good suggestions have been posted in the past. I remember Dirty coming up with some pretty good ones in the past. Go back to some of the old threads and check 'em out.

[Sioux-cia]

I would suggest giving them ear muffs.

[Goon]

I guess in a way I was kind of serious. Can you imagine how impressed these dignitaries are going to be when they hear the various dirty calls and F-bombs coming from the Student section? F*** the Mavericks ought to be really impressive too.

Edited January 14, 2006 by Goon

[Smoggy]

I was really surprised that the GOPHER BAND and director were even swearing last night. The UND band is an sponsored group and in no way allowed to swear. Stuff may come out, but you won't hear them chanting.