UND's DI review committee

[PCM]

let me reparaphrase your point: UND has nothing to gain from a consultant because it will only tell it what it already knows.

You don't need to rephrase anything. All you need to do is answer the simple question I asked.

[Teeder11]

Im not a big Phil Harmeson fan all the time. But, the guy knows the NCAA, NCC and WCHA inside and out. He could run any consulting firm in the country on NCAA and reclassification issues. And he's got a law degree to boot.

There's one.

Paul LeBel, also on the UND task force, is dean of the Law School and a national export on tort law and reform. I'm sure he's done a bit of consulting in his day. So there's an able-body lieutenant to Harmeson for ya.

I could probably go down the list and find others on the Task Force who know a thing or two about what they're studying.

Just my two pennies.

Bye

[The Sicatoka]

Im not a big Phil Harmeson fan all the time. But, the guy knows the NCAA, NCC and WCHA inside and out. He could run any consulting firm in the country on NCAA and reclassification issues. And he's got a law degree to boot.

Here's another one for you:

I know for fact that Harmeson is in frequent contact with a guy who:

(a) is a DI conference commissioner, and

(b) does consulting regarding the feasibility of level changes within the NCAA.

[The Sicatoka]

But UND's review committee is doing it all.

In a vacuum? I'm getting the impression that that is what you believe.

[IowaBison]

I think IowaBison's message is that because NDSU hired a consultant, UND must take the same approach.

Definitely not, I think UND should hire a consultant because it is in their best interest to do so. I have no idea what NDSU has to do with the decision to do so.

[IowaBison]

Here's another one for you:

I know for fact that Harmeson is in frequent contact with a guy who:

(a) is a DI conference commissioner, and

(b) does consulting regarding the feasibility of level changes within the NCAA.

Great, why don't they put those two guys on the committee.

[The Sicatoka]

Great, why don't they put those two guys on the committee.

It's one guy, and if he was seen in Grand Forks there'd stories speculating "why else?" in every paper in the region.

[IowaBison]

It's one guy, and if he was seen in Grand Forks there'd stories speculating "why else?" in every paper in the region.

Cool (seriously), but you know what they saw about free advice.

[IowaBison]

Definitely not, I think UND should hire a consultant because it is in their best interest to do so. I have no idea what NDSU has to do with the decision to do so.

Also, NDSU hired 3, yes 3, consultants before making their decision.

[Cratter]

Also, NDSU hired 3, yes 3, consultants before making their decision.

and it didn't matter, because they knew they were going Division I.

They ignored what the consultants told them. Plain and Simple.

[star2city]

Im not a big Phil Harmeson fan all the time. But, the guy knows the NCAA, NCC and WCHA inside and out. He could run any consulting firm in the country on NCAA and reclassification issues. And he's got a law degree to boot.

Is it also true that Harmeson also has an uncanny insight into Big Sky politics and their needs?

[star2city]

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/13596988.htm

Our objective is to complete it no later than spring commencement, which is in the middle of May," said Bob Boyd, the UND vice president heading up the task force.

.....

The final report to Kupchella also will be in a "pros and cons" format. Boyd said Kupchella is not asking for recommendations from the task force.

Once the report is in Kupchella's hands, Boyd said, "he'll do whatever he wishes to do with it."

A few somewhat rhetorical questions: Why were no recommendations requested in the task force report? Why the May date, rather than next fall, or late this summer, for the task force’s report? Was the key provision in the consultant reports blessing a DI move for NDSU and SDSU premised on obtaining conference affiliation? Could it be, that an unofficial conference bid is already in the offing for UND, so there are fewer unanswered questions? With that in mind, is the intent of the task force to create a consensus in the community that DI is a viable option rather than make to actually make DI decision? So in effect, isn’t the creation of the task force exactly what would be suggested by consultants?

May 2006 - Task force report submitted to Kupchella

Summer 2006- Kupchella announced UND will enter the exploratory year for DI in the 2006-7 school year, UND remains in the NCC through June 30th, 2007. No other NCC schools make the September 1st DI declaration deadline.

October 2006- The Big Sky announces they will again study adding additional schools.

Feb 2007 - The NCAA imposes a moratorium on schools moving up to DI. This action effectively freezes other NCC schools from moving up.

May 2007 - The Big Sky adds three schools, UND, NDSU, and SDSU for the 2008-9 school year and will begin divisional play.

Aug 2007 - UND begins the limbo season - not DI nor DII. Football and basketball schedules are brutal, but only for one year.

Aug 2008 - UND enters the Big Sky Conference, as well as NDSU and SDSU. Relative to the expense accrued by NDSU’s transition, the UND athletic department will have saved approximately 8 million dollars in expenses while waiting for a conference affiliation relative to DII costs and avoided nearly 1 million in lost ticket revenue due to minimizing the time period with no conference affiliation.

[BisonMav]

[url=http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/13596988.htm]May 2006 - Task force report submitted to Kupchella

Summer 2006- Kupchella announced UND will enter the exploratory year for DI in the 2006-7 school year, UND remains in the NCC through June 30th, 2007. No other NCC schools make the September 1st DI declaration deadline.

Will UND also pay the fine for leaving the prior to the 18 month timeframe the NCC has added since NDSU and SDSU left the conference? UND would have to announce by the end of March to leave the NCC without a fine.

[Bison Dan]

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/13596988.htm

A few somewhat rhetorical questions: Why were no recommendations requested in the task force report? Why the May date, rather than next fall, or late this summer, for the task force

[IowaBison]

They ignored what the consultants told them. Plain and Simple.

That's a pretty brash statement. The consultants gave NDSU information and advice, including the importance of conference affilitiation, NDSU felt that all things considered a move was in their best interest.

I wasn't "in the room" when the decision was being made, but I doubt that NDSU ignored or glossed over the need for a conference, that's quite illogical.

[IowaBison]

Could it be, that an unofficial conference bid is already in the offing for UND, so there are fewer unanswered questions? With that in mind, is the intent of the task force to create a consensus in the community that DI is a viable option rather than make to actually make DI decision?

I really can't see an unofficial conference bid anywhere. I understand that the personal relationship between Harmeson and Fullerton and that Doug had an informal tour last year. I also believe that Doug is strongly interested in the Dakota schools as members. The problem is with NAU, Sac State, and PSU (at the least). Their presidents get to vote not Fullerton.

At the last meeting discussing expansion that lasted more than 15 minutes, the entire premise was on unanimity (though the reasons for that may no longer govern future decisions).

With that in mind, is the intent of the task force to create a consensus in the community that DI is a viable option rather than make to actually make DI decision?

I hope to heck that isn't the 'real' purpose of the task force. As it might not be viable for UND to move to DI. I'm pretty sure their stated purpose is their true one, ie to collect and assemble information for a decision to be made by the President.

May 2006 - Task force report submitted to Kupchella

Summer 2006- Kupchella announced UND will enter the exploratory year for DI in the 2006-7 school year, UND remains in the NCC through June 30th, 2007. No other NCC schools make the September 1st DI declaration deadline.

October 2006- The Big Sky announces they will again study adding additional schools.

Feb 2007 - The NCAA imposes a moratorium on schools moving up to DI. This action effectively freezes other NCC schools from moving up.

May 2007 - The Big Sky adds three schools, UND, NDSU, and SDSU for the 2008-9 school year and will begin divisional play.

Aug 2007 - UND begins the limbo season - not DI nor DII. Football and basketball schedules are brutal, but only for one year.

Aug 2008 - UND enters the Big Sky Conference, as well as NDSU and SDSU.

That would be fantastic.

[govikes27]

Hell by that logic if you wait for a few more years look at all the money you'll save. You haven't stated where the money is going to come from, the hockey program? I doubt that you can increase ticket prices and with no growth in gf I don't see more fans. Maybe a big DI tax on students!

The students themselves are the only ones that can approve raising athletics fees, so I don't think that would be "forcing" them. You never know, maybe the student body will be willing to support athletics like a "real" DI school .

[star2city]

Hell by that logic if you wait for a few more years look at all the money you'll save.

That's almost enough for an indoor practice facility. BTW, when does the BSA refurbishment start?

You haven't stated where the money is going to come from, the hockey program?

Has NDSU begun using tuition waivers this semester? Last fall Chapman himself stated they might need start doing waivers, if the fundraising didn't keep up.

I doubt that you can increase ticket prices and with no growth in gf I don't see more fans.

Fargo seems to be quite the growth market, both in population and in Sioux fans. That market doesn't seem to be too fascinated with the Bball teams down there, based on attendance.

[star2city]

Will UND also pay the fine for leaving the prior to the 18 month timeframe the NCC has added since NDSU and SDSU left the conference? UND would have to announce by the end of March to leave the NCC without a fine.

Isn't the "fine" something like $50,000? An exit fee in even lower level DI conferences is often in a low six-figure range.

[star2city]

I really can't see an unofficial conference bid anywhere. I understand that the personal relationship between Harmeson and Fullerton and that Doug had an informal tour last year. I also believe that Doug is strongly interested in the Dakota schools as members. The problem is with NAU, Sac State, and PSU (at the least). Their presidents get to vote not Fullerton.

At the last meeting discussing expansion that lasted more than 15 minutes, the entire premise was on unanimity (though the reasons for that may no longer govern future decisions).

When the Sky met last on expansion, it was more to lead the 'SU's on about the Sky's interest. They don't want two ineligible schools, SDSU/NDSU, until are both fully DI qualified. (They will take one ineligible shool, e.g. UNC with one more year.) It's like waiting to ask the girl next-door out next she turns 18 (when the Sky is 25).

[IowaBison]

When does the basketball refurbishment start?

It already has, they put in the $750,000 video boards over break. I believe that they have raised 8 of the 16 million dollar tag.

When will NDSU's tuition waivers start?

Not this year, the Teammakers raised their $1.4 million. How many tuition waivers will UND grant this year? 10? 20?

What's the fine for the leaving the NCC?

30,000 if I recall correctly, not zero, but serious money for any team making the move (I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of a number of boosters wouldn't flip that bill specifically)

[The Sicatoka]

Isn't the "fine" something like $50,000? An exit fee in even lower level DI conferences is often in a low six-figure range.

$50k is the level of guarantee some top-tier DIIs want to come to GF and play Lennon's guys these days.

[star2city]

Seems that an outside group believes there is potential for a spring-time indoor sport in Grand Forks:

Indoor football league sizing up Bismarck (and Grand Forks)

Currently the UIF has teams in Omaha, Sioux City, Iowa; Sioux Falls, S.D.; Peoria, Ill., Bloomington, Ill.; Rockford, Ill. (Rock River); Evansville, Ind.; Lexington, Ky.; Wheeling, W. Va. (Ohio Valley); and Fort Wayne, Ind.

Petersen said the league is also exploring the possibility of putting a team in Grand Forks.

A GF team could presumably play in either the Ralph or the AL (with the movable stands). But which would draw better: a minor-league indoor football game or a lacrosse match with the Fighting Sioux label?

[The Sicatoka]

Let's really crank this around with

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...341/1002/SPORTS

and

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=136491

"If UND moves up to D-I, it could force other NCC members to do the same. Other speculation has some schools going south to join the D-II Mid-American Intercollegiate Athletic Association, which could leave the NCC's survival in jeopardy."

Like I posted in that other thread:

"could force" means SCSU's recent talk of DI-AA.

But the "some schools", plural, and MIAA really has me interested. I'd only heard UN-Omaha make noise like that. Would USD or Augustana look that direction too? They could play NSIC schools non-conference for Twin Cities exposure and get exposure in the St. Louis and Kansas City area (MIAA). Not a bad situation for a potential DII MIAA member from any accounting.

A scenario like that could really leave SCSU, Duluth, and Mankato jammed up.

[bincitysioux]

Would the MIAA consider adding 3 schools?