Sioux-cia Posted October 1, 2005 Posted October 1, 2005 You're avoiding the questions. I don't want them lost in a thread so have started our own thread. Kracker, I am formally calling you out. I have spend so much time writing about my family history and their accomplishments, ad nauseum, because of your whining about how mistreated your people are, how there are no oppportuntites for you because your not white, how mommy and daddy didn't finance your education or buy you a car, how people threaten you because your American Indian, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If fourteen Mexican-American siblings who were orphaned when the youngest was months old and the oldest wasn't quite 21 could accomplish what they did with their lives why can't you? Sioux is not a derogatory word. My family members were not respectfully referred to as Mexican American but other degrading terms. I'm not going to repeat what I already have about my proud heritage and wonderful family. You choose to ignore and belittle all I've written about them and have conveniently taken information out of context and attempted to attack me with your distortions. Tell me about your families' accomplishments. 1. How many of your children/siblings/cousins have attended college? 2. How many of your children/siblings/cousins have jobs? 3. How many of your children/siblings/cousins are economically stable>not counting government assistance? 4. How many of your children/siblings/cousins can enter any room and know they belong because they were brought up with pride in who and what they are, not who and what someone else says they are? 5. How many of your children/siblings/counsins know that they are more than American Indian? 6. How many of your children/siblings/cousins speak and understand their native language? 7. How many of your children/siblings/cousins believe that there is more to life in addition to being Lakota/Nakota/Dakota? 8. How has the name Sioux kept you from accomplishing your goals? 9. How has the name Sioux hurt your children? 10. How has the name Sioux made you less of a person? 11. Where is it written that the only Sioux are Lakota/Nakota/Dakota? 12. What obstacles have your children/siblings/cousins hurdled to achieve your dreams and goals? .Come on Krack, do a little bragging of your own. Answer the questions You think because the rest of us don't live on reservations we have lost our sense of heritage, of where we come from and who we are. Your wrong. My ma was the last of those fourteen siblings who accomplished great things with their lives. I have pictures of the family gathering after her burial. Want to see them? What you would see is a bunch of 'brown sisters and brothers', eating Mexican food made by the women folk, children running all over the place and going to the nearest adult for a hug or a kiss when they felt the need, you would see traditional dress, see people swaying to traditional music, 'brown brothers and sisters' celebrating the life of the last matriach of the family. So don't give us your American Indians are the only ones with an intact culture because they live on reservations BS. The rest of us, the white, black, brown, yellow, purple and green ones, have kept our cultures intact off the tit. Try it. You keep repeating that we're not Sioux. Your wrong. I am a Sioux. I am a Sioux because the students and athletes of the University that I graduated from are known as the Sioux. So in addition to all the other things I am, I am a Fighting Sioux and a Fighting Sioux I will be for life. And every student before me, every student after me, every athlete, every fan of UND athletics are Fighting Sioux. Deal with it!
Cratter Posted October 1, 2005 Posted October 1, 2005 Do you not see the never ending circle? He makes good points...you make good points. One side wants answers to questions....the other side wants answers to questions. Kracker could ask you question like "show me how the name is honoring me." When I am a NA and and I see this every day. I guess the horse isn't dead yet. Its obvious GK is getting under your skin.
Let'sGoHawks! Posted October 1, 2005 Posted October 1, 2005 Do you not see the never ending circle? He makes good points...you make good points. One side wants answers to questions....the other side wants answers to questions. Kracker could ask you question like "show me how the name is honoring me." When I am a NA and and I see this every day. I guess the horse isn't dead yet. Its obvious GK is getting under your skin. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which is precisely what people like him/her are trying to do.
BringDeanBack Posted October 1, 2005 Posted October 1, 2005 Do you not see the never ending circle? He makes good points...you make good points. One side wants answers to questions....the other side wants answers to questions. Kracker could ask you question like "show me how the name is honoring me." When I am a NA and and I see this every day. I guess the horse isn't dead yet. Its obvious GK is getting under your skin. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The answer to that could be "You are being honored because.. UND has proven time and time again that it caters to Native American students (INMED, NA Cultural Center, scholarships, etc). The name/logo serves to reiterate the fact that UND is one of the more Native American friendly colleges in the US. If anything, UND is discriminatory against caucasians. When I was going to UND there were no scholarships available to "white people only". However, there are scholarships available to Native Americans only. There was no house on campus called the European/caucasian cultural center. However, there is a Native American Cultural center. There was no "white people into medicine" program that basically set up a quota to allow "x" amount of white people in every year. However, the Native Americans had the Inmed program that did this.
PCM Posted October 1, 2005 Posted October 1, 2005 He makes good points...you make good points.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, but I don't agree with your moral equivalent standard that GK's points are just as good as Sioux-cia's. They're not.
Sioux-cia Posted October 1, 2005 Author Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) GK's right about my questions. This is not about 'UND honoring' the Sioux name. This is about a minority using what ever blame can be truthfully or otherwise placed on someone or something else for their lack of accomplishment for their awful plight in life. This country is made up of minorities, white ones too, who through hard work, pride in who they are, and the continued support of their family and friends have climbed out of the 'they're mean to me and won't let me play' mentality that too many, llike GK, keep perpetuating. This 'fight' to keep the Sioux name or to not use the Sioux name is another excuse, another finger pointing that is being used by a minority for real or imagined reasons not to climb out of the 'plight of the Indian' hole and make his/her world a better place to live and raise their children. GK has made it seem as if the American Indians do not have equal advantages because of the use of American Indian names, logos, mascots, etc. If it weren't for the UND Fighting Sioux, the Am would have a better llife. If it weren't for the white man, GK's life would be golden. As a minority, I say that's crap. And not because I am pro-Fighting Sioux. GK and the rest of the American Indians plight in this country wasn't much worse than my ancesters. We too had large pieces of land, cultivated and rich, 'stolen' from us by the white man. We too were slaughtered for imagined riches, etc. etc. As little as my mother's generation, my family had NOTHING, not even a reservation to live on. BOO, HOO. It's over, it's done, move on, it's history. We've over come all the obstacle thrown in our paths and won. My point? My point is life can be a better place to llive and raise you family by working your a$$ off for it, not clinging to a way of life that is obviously keeping you down. Changing the Sioux name, that's not going to change ANYTHING in GK's life. You can honor the Sioux name, GK by affirmative answers to the majority of my questions. That WILL change EVERYTHING for the better in your life and in the life of your children. That's my point, GK. That's the reason for my family history on this board. UND is honoring the Sioux name through the accomplishments of the graduates and athletes of the institution. GK can honor it through your successes in life inspite of the oppression of the whiteman. Edited October 1, 2005 by Sioux-cia
7>4 Posted October 1, 2005 Posted October 1, 2005 Sioux-cia, I agree with your post. However, it seems clear from GK's position that he believes that changing the name will not improve the conditions on the reservation but is necessary because he feels it to be disrespectful to the Sioux people. I'm not really sure because most of his posts are filled with little more than anger. I agree that GK's passion would be better directed towards actions that will actually make a difference for American Indians but that would require much more work and commitment than marching in protests, attending meetings and posting internet messages. It will take actions and commitment like your ancestors to raise above past injustices. That said, let me take the other side of the argument since I don't think that GK will take you up on your offer. As I understand GK's position, his question would be whether you would have any trouble with a nickname like the "Fighting Mexicans" that depicts a logo of Cortez or Santa Anna or any of the other warriors of the Mexican - American War or would you feel honored that your ancestors were being used to symbolize bravery and courage for a college sports team? I don't agree with GK's position, I'm just trying to understand it.
redwing77 Posted October 1, 2005 Posted October 1, 2005 Sioux-cia, I agree with your post. However, it seems clear from GK's position that he believes that changing the name will not improve the conditions on the reservation but is necessary because he feels it to be disrespectful to the Sioux people. I'm not really sure because most of his posts are filled with little more than anger. I agree that GK's passion would be better directed towards actions that will actually make a difference for American Indians but that would require much more work and commitment than marching in protests, attending meetings and posting internet messages. It will take actions and commitment like your ancestors to raise above past injustices. That said, let me take the other side of the argument since I don't think that GK will take you up on your offer. As I understand GK's position, his question would be whether you would have any trouble with a nickname like the "Fighting Mexicans" that depicts a logo of Cortez or Santa Anna or any of the other warriors of the Mexican - American War or would you feel honored that your ancestors were being used to symbolize bravery and courage for a college sports team? I don't agree with GK's position, I'm just trying to understand it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wonder what our response would have been if he had taken the approach of asking our understanding instead of throwing degradation and the term racist around. We'll never know.
Sioux-cia Posted October 1, 2005 Author Posted October 1, 2005 Sioux-cia, I agree with your post. However, it seems clear from GK's position that he believes that changing the name will not improve the conditions on the reservation but is necessary because he feels it to be disrespectful to the Sioux people. I'm not really sure because most of his posts are filled with little more than anger. I agree that GK's passion would be better directed towards actions that will actually make a difference for American Indians but that would require much more work and commitment than marching in protests, attending meetings and posting internet messages. It will take actions and commitment like your ancestors to raise above past injustices. That said, let me take the other side of the argument since I don't think that GK will take you up on your offer. As I understand GK's position, his question would be whether you would have any trouble with a nickname like the "Fighting Mexicans" that depicts a logo of Cortez or Santa Anna or any of the other warriors of the Mexican - American War or would you feel honored that your ancestors were being used to symbolize bravery and courage for a college sports team? I don't agree with GK's position, I'm just trying to understand it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have addressed the use of a Mexican-American name or logo and if used with the respect UND uses the Fighting Sioux name, NO, I would not protest it. I am not protesting the use of the name Aztecs by San Diego. How will that hurt me and who I am? How will that 'keep me down on the farm'? Answer, it won't. I am more in favor of the name Fighting Martinez'. My family name. It accurately denotes what they had to do to grow and reach goals as a people both spiritually, through education and ultimately economically. The first Mexican American to be killed in World War II was a Martinez. The name would also honor him. If anyone told my ancestors that being called Latinos, Chicanos, Hispanics, Mexican-Americans (or more derogagory names), Beaners, Spics, Wet-Backs, Greasers, etc was the reason to not strive to make a better life for themselves and their families or that it would keep them from achieving goals in life, they would have told that person to put down the Tequila, it was frying their brain. The use of the Sioux name is disrespected if UND uses it disrespectfully. The use of the Sioux name is disrespected by those who use the name as an excuse to not make life better for them and theirs. I don't believe that the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota OWN the name and should be allowed to decide who can or cannot use the name. GK is concerned with honoring the name. As I have stated, UND honors the name through the accomplishments or its students and athletes. I challenge GK and the others who want the name changed to honor the Sioux name through their accomplishments. UND using or not using the Sioux name will do nothing to make better lives for themselves and their families.
Sioux-cia Posted October 1, 2005 Author Posted October 1, 2005 Thanks to redwing77 and his find on American Indian education in Sioux Falls, SD school district, another reason for my questions to Kracker. http://www.nativehealth.org/index_files/page0029.htm The other two thirds (21 of 34) dropped out, transferred or did not complete coursework for graduation. Perhaps the worst part is that this is an improvement over previous years."
Let'sGoHawks! Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Nice points Sioux-cia. GK, where are you at?
Goon Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Do you not see the never ending circle? He makes good points...you make good points. Kracker makes one sided points based on his point of view, only changing the name is acceptable. Any point of view other than his is wrong and apparently from what I gather uninformed and racist. Kracker only answers question that he can give a canned answer to. I doubt he will answer your questions.
Sioux-cia Posted October 11, 2005 Author Posted October 11, 2005 Kracker makes one sided points based on his point of view, only changing the name is acceptable. Any point of view other than his is wrong and apparently from what I gather uninformed and racist. Kracker only answers question that he can give a canned answer to. I doubt he will answer your questions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I really didn't expect any answers. UND can point to thousands of athletes, students, alumni and esteemed supporters who have brought honor to the Fighting Sioux name by their success and legacies. Kracker can't give one example of how he honors the Sioux name. Being a 'real' American Indian, being raised on the poorest reservation in the world, and being against the Fighting Sioux name and logo are not examples of honoring the Sioux name. I have formed an opinion of GrahamKracker was based on his postings. I believe that he has and continues to dishonor the Sioux name. But, hey, that's just my opinion.
huskies679 Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Is it true that REA sells Sioux-per Dogs. Or was that a joke? I don't find this offensive but do you think that this is an example of whan some Native Americans are talking about? Just a outsider trying to understand the two sides of this issue
Sioux-cia Posted October 12, 2005 Author Posted October 12, 2005 I, as well as many others, agree that the use of words such as 'Sioux-per Dogs' is wrong and should not continue. The REA is not owned, operated or governed by the University of North Dakota.
Riverman Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 http://www.nativehealth.org/index_files/page0029.htm Yikes!
Fetch Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Fight...G=Google+Search Talk about Abusive & Hostile http://www.UND.nodak.edu/org/bridges/index2.html http://www.google.com/custom?q=Fighting+Si...w.nativeweb.org
Goon Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 If anything, UND is discriminatory against caucasians. When I was going to UND there were no scholarships available to "white people only". However, there are scholarships available to Native Americans only. There was no house on campus called the European/caucasian cultural center. However, there is a Native American Cultural center. There was no "white people into medicine" program that basically set up a quota to allow "x" amount of white people in every year. However, the Native Americans had the Inmed program that did this. The reason we don't have these types of things is the far left fring groups want us to feel ashamed of our history, we are also supposed to be ashamed of our ancesters. The reason we are not supposed to honor white culture; because it the culture of oppression and racists. According to the so called education elite's.
GrahamKracker Posted October 19, 2005 Posted October 19, 2005 sioux C.I.A., I will answer what questions I feel are appropriate, but even if I answer them, you'll still find reasons to dismiss everything I say. 1. How many of your children/siblings/cousins have attended college? My children are too young /my siblings, lets see, yes they ALL have attended college, 2 are lawyers, one is a doctor, and one is self employed /my cousins, well I have over 25 1st cousins, and some have attended college, but I don't have exact numbers. 2. How many of your children/siblings/cousins have jobs? 0/all/? 3. How many of your children/siblings/cousins are economically stable>not counting government assistance? Can you answer this? I was watching the news the other day and almost every other day they talk about your people sneaking over the border to get into this country. Why are you down there helping them? Oh wait, you are too good for your own people, I forgot that. 4. How many of your children/siblings/cousins can enter any room and know they belong because they were brought up with pride in who and what they are, not who and what someone else says they are? My children are proud of who they are. My 2yo can speak 3 languages, and my other children will learn them as well. I am full of pride. Even though you think I hate this world, I don't. I am here to learn what I need to so I can go back and help my people. Unlike some I know, I will never turn my back on where I came from/ my people. You are a third generation Mexican, and I don't know how much of your "culture" you have. But if you were similar to the Beaner friends I have, you would be able to empathize with the struggle of other "brown" people in this country. 5. How many of your children/siblings/counsins know that they are more than American Indian? Some of my cousins are only Lakota, so what are you talking about. more? You mean you can brag all you want about being Mexican but I can't have that same pride for my culture? I'll bet you I grew up more Sioux than you did Mexican. I mean, what is a Mexican, anyways? Technically, I think you are Native Americans that were conquered by the Spaniards, and since you have been under their control for so long, you lost your own language, your own religion, your everything. We the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota haven't. We still know who we are. 6. How many of your children/siblings/cousins speak and understand their native language? Many, Do you know your native language, or do you only know the language of the people that conquered you? 7. How many of your children/siblings/cousins believe that there is more to life in addition to being Lakota/Nakota/Dakota? Stupid question. 8. How has the name Sioux kept you from accomplishing your goals? No, but I know Sioux people and other Native people that have been hurt by this name/logo and have since moved on. We are more than a logo. 9. How has the name Sioux hurt your children? They are too young, but the question is, are the kids in Sioux kids club being hurt by not knowing who the true Sioux are, and only referring to a Nation as a moniker/logo? 10. How has the name Sioux made you less of a person? Less? Why not put this question, not on me, but on you....how has this _________(insert ANY mascot/logo name) name made you more of a person? I'm Sioux, your not. 11. Where is it written that the only Sioux are Lakota/Nakota/Dakota? I can't believe you, Miss Educated, would even be capable of writing a question as stupid as this. We are Sioux. We are Federally recognized as being such. Are you? 12. What obstacles have your children/siblings/cousins hurdled to achieve your dreams and goals You name it sister! We are still getting over obstacles. I mean, there's this University that even tries to make a mockery of my people, but yet we are persevering!! Can you believe that because they have a couple dancers out in the middle of the arena they think they are "honoring" my people? They also are getting a considerable amount of money from our Indian related programs being on campus, yet people are complaining that we shouldn't be on campus (hint hint, if the programs go, UND loses out on $$$ it is makiing by having those programs there (i.e., INMED, INPSYD, etc, etc)). Instead of trying to attack my people C.I.A., why not be proud of who you are? Embrace your Mexican side! I wonder if OTHER universities have the loyalty the people up here have to their MASCOT/LOGO. I wonder if people bitch at SCSU about the Huskies....or if they have a dog sled pulling program, or if UM has a lot of land just for the raising of gophers. No, do you know why? Because UND is one of the only Universities to be ignorant enough to use race of people as their logo. So to all that are reading this. Be proud of who you are. Cheer for your team, but leave the name of my people out of that cheer.
Goon Posted October 19, 2005 Posted October 19, 2005 Why do "white" people need scholarships here when over 90% of the students are white? Kracker has manage to now play the race card: Note to Graham Kracker, not every white who attends UND is rich or born with a golden spoon in their mouth. Also there are things called accademic scholarships. Some of the so called whities are just as poor as the people who come from the Reservation. Did you want to play the class card next? I am surprised you haven't made the compariston that most white people wear sheets or brown shirts and are racists. Next...
.357 Posted October 19, 2005 Posted October 19, 2005 The reason we don't have these types of things is the far left fring groups want us to feel ashamed of our history, we are also supposed to be ashamed of our ancesters. The reason we are not supposed to honor white culture; because it the culture of oppression and racists. According to the so called education elite's. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True. It's refreshing to see a couple of white people here who are tuned into what's happening in our public schools & institutions of higher learning. Brown, black, red & yellow = good & righteous; white = evil & racist haters. GK exploits this decades-old mantra & mentions it as often as possible, probably because he can get away with it & there are no social repercussions for him making blanket statements & gross misrepresentations of the caucasian race. Hardly noble but very politically savvy. It's PC to blame Whitey. On the other hand, whites have been conditioned for, oh, the past 50-60 years that anything resembling white pride is taboo & "hateful". Public education sure has been hijacked by a lot of self-hating whites in high places who have instilled this self-loathing/racial denial in our children. This agenda has sure been successful -- the number of whites who have bought into this propaganda is legion. You repeat something over & over & people begin to believe it, regardless of whether it's true or not: Stalin, Goebbels, Mao & most American politicians know this stratagem. Sioux-cia is rather bold here about her pride in her Mexican ancestry & more power to her; I actually admire people who are proud of their lineage. No race should be made to feel ashamed of their family tree. Now if only white people would have this sense of racial awareness & stand up & be counted; very difficult to achieve when the media & schools are bombarding us 24/7 with images & messages quite the opposite. Wake up, white man, & be proud of yourself & your past, just like the other races. The media is not your friend.
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