MafiaMan Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 Every once in awhile a decent goalie comes from the NA. We'll agree to disagree regarding the ECAC...I look back further than one year. Their track record isn't that great. Edit: For all of you instantly bashing my initial post...please see above. Since 2000, the ECAC has seen five different schools represent the conference at the Frozen Four: 2013: Quinnipiac and Yale 2012: Union College 2003 Cornell 2000: St Lawrence Since 2000, the WCHA has seen six different schools represent the conference at the Frozen Four. Granted, most of the WCHA schools have been there more than once since 2000, but the ECAC is not the EZAC of old. EDIT: Not bashing your initial post either. Quote
yzerman19 Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 Speaking of, Nolan Patrick was just selected 4th overall in the WHL Bantam Draft by the Brandon Wheat Kings Didn't Toewser go #1 overall in the bantam draft? Quote
UND99 Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 Didn't Toewser go #1 overall in the bantam draft? Yes, he did. Only CHL #1 pick to not play in the CHL I believe. Seemed to work out OK for him I guess... Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 Since 2000, the ECAC has seen five different schools represent the conference at the Frozen Four: 2013: Quinnipiac and Yale 2012: Union College 2003 Cornell 2000: St Lawrence Since 2000, the WCHA has seen six different schools represent the conference at the Frozen Four. Granted, most of the WCHA schools have been there more than once since 2000, but the ECAC is not the EZAC of old. EDIT: Not bashing your initial post either. ....yeah. Quote
choyt3 Posted May 2, 2013 Posted May 2, 2013 ....yeah. Weren't you the one that made a judgement of whether a player was up to some mythical standard based on what league he played in? Plus, you made your comments without even knowing what position he played. Just assumed he was no good because he played in the NAHL. That's worse than basing how successful a player will be in college on how many points he has scored. Can't see a lot of context on a stat line, or even on a roster. 1 Quote
collegehockeywatcher Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Definitely, I didn't know he was a goalie. Every once in awhile a decent goalie comes from the NA. We'll agree to disagree regarding the ECAC...I look back further than one year. Their track record isn't that great. Edit: For all of you instantly bashing my initial post...please see above. You are giving advice to posters reacting "instantly" when you didn't know all the facts when you posted? ECAC with a track record not up to your standards? This is the here and now. This young man committed to a good program/school and you feel the need to dismiss it as sub-standard. Things change - there are plenty of programs that have been strong in the past that are not strong currently: Michigan State, Maine, LSSU come to mind. Some programs are showing much more potential now than they did in the past: UMass-Lowell, Union, Providence, Minnesota State, Western Michigan. Maybe some posters are tired of you and a few others who post with a "know-it-all" attitude and never hesitate to comment negatively about young players, including those in the UND program. Along with the "know-it-all" attitude comes times when you fail to recognize facts. Why make comments that belittle players and coaches? Did you play the game at a high level? Have you coached and recruited ? 1 Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Weren't you the one that made a judgement of whether a player was up to some mythical standard based on what league he played in? Plus, you made your comments without even knowing what position he played. Just assumed he was no good because he played in the NAHL. That's worse than basing how successful a player will be in college on how many points he has scored. Can't see a lot of context on a stat line, or even on a roster. You're correct I should have deleted my comment....but I saw people had already commented on it. My bro and a bunch of buddies played in the NA...I know the compentition level. Most players end up going D-3 from the NA. I have no idea what you mean with your last two sentences. I have one degree. Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 You are giving advice to posters reacting "instantly" when you didn't know all the facts when you posted? ECAC with a track record not up to your standards? This is the here and now. This young man committed to a good program/school and you feel the need to dismiss it as sub-standard. Things change - there are plenty of programs that have been strong in the past that are not strong currently: Michigan State, Maine, LSSU come to mind. Some programs are showing much more potential now than they did in the past: UMass-Lowell, Union, Providence, Minnesota State, Western Michigan. Maybe some posters are tired of you and a few others who post with a "know-it-all" attitude and never hesitate to comment negatively about young players, including those in the UND program. Along with the "know-it-all" attitude comes times when you fail to recognize facts. Why make comments that belittle players and coaches? Did you play the game at a high level? Have you coached and recruited ? I didn't hate on the kid...I was simply thinking I'm fine with UND not getting him...that's all. I played through high school and went to college, I could have played in the NA. I know enough about the game to hold my own. The previous guy was right, my comment most likely came off a little strong but I don't think the ECAC is that great of a league based on the type of players they recruit/produce. I love UND hockey but I also love the talent that comes through the program (and other WCHA schools for that matter). As for my original comment, my thinking was I was perfectly fine with this kid choosing to go to another school given the schools that were recruiting him (or lack there of). UND will be able to find another solid goalie. I am also perfectly fine with Zane taking the reigns from here on out. I have seen a lot stronger comments aimed at kids who choose to go to other WCHA schools (more specifically UM). So just because I call a spade a spade and note the ECAC in general is not one of the toughest leagues...and their schedules are relatively weak, don't jump all over me. Read my initial post, it wasn't all that bad. Sorry if upset you. 1 Quote
Goon Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Actually, there are quite a few good players that come from the NAHL. I know that Miami has gotten some gems from that league. You never know with goalies either. Quote
collegehockeywatcher Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 I didn't hate on the kid...I was simply thinking I'm fine with UND not getting him...that's all. I played through high school and went to college, I could have played in the NA. I know enough about the game to hold my own. The previous guy was right, my comment most likely came off a little strong but I don't think the ECAC is that great of a league based on the type of players they recruit/produce. I love UND hockey but I also love the talent that comes through the program (and other WCHA schools for that matter). As for my original comment, my thinking was I was perfectly fine with this kid choosing to go to another school given the schools that were recruiting him (or lack there of). UND will be able to find another solid goalie. I am also perfectly fine with Zane taking the reigns from here on out. I have seen a lot stronger comments aimed at kids who choose to go to other WCHA schools (more specifically UM). So just because I call a spade a spade and note the ECAC in general is not one of the toughest leagues...and their schedules are relatively weak, don't jump all over me. Read my initial post, it wasn't all that bad. Sorry if upset you. You belittled SLU by saying that "if that was the best offer he got"...glad to hear you have endorsed Zane starting from here on out...you should let the coaches know because otherwise they will let the goalies' playing time go to whoever earns it, just as they did this year and every other year. Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Actually, there are quite a few good players that come from the NAHL. I know that Miami has gotten some gems from that league. You never know with goalies either. Yes, every once in awhile a decent forward comes out of there or jumps to the USHL. My bro's team had a guy who went to Maine. As for the goalies you are correct, I have seen some decent goalies come out of the NA. Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 You belittled SLU by saying that "if that was the best offer he got"...glad to hear you have endorsed Zane starting from here on out...you should let the coaches know because otherwise they will let the goalies' playing time go to whoever earns it, just as they did this year and every other year. ...you're reaching. Quote
UND99 Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Paul LaDue played a season in the NAHL and had the least productive season of his three spent at the junior level. 1 Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Paul LaDue played a season in the NAHL and had the least productive season of his three spent at the junior level. Yes, see two posts up. I noted that a lot of young players go to the NA first before heading to the USHL. Paul really matured during his first year in Lincoln. I don't end up seeing a ton of 2-3 year NA players making it past college. Many simply go the D-3 route, which isn't a big deal. I skate with a ton of good former D-3 players. Quote
Goon Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Looking at the NAHL college commitment page there are a lot of Division I commitments on this page. Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 3, 2013 Posted May 3, 2013 Looking at the NAHL college commitment page there are a lot of Division I commitments on this page. True...now check out the USHL commitments page. I never said there were no NA commitments. They usually are role players at best. Gaardner came from the NA I believe. Respectfully, I think you missed my point. My point was that we missed out on a NA player (I initially thought wasn't a goalie). I was fine with that because UNd typically pulls in many top notch recruits....I would say, besides young kids who will eventually move on to the USHL, there are minimal, at best, prospects playing in the NA. Many teams in the NA used to be in the AWHL (or Americas worst hockey league ). Some of these players may eventually be decent small league college players but we (UND) typically don't pull in these type of recruits because we go after NHL prospects...make sense? Sorry I'm writing from my phone. I not once said there were no NA players with college commitments. However many commit d3, walk on to d3 schools, or quite hockey altogether. Quote
Goon Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) True...now check out the USHL commitments page. I never said there were no NA commitments. They usually are role players at best. Gaardner came from the NA I believe. Respectfully, I think you missed my point. Actually your argument is fallacious, because the US NTDP used to play their games in the NAHL so you have a plethora of players that cut their teeth in the NAHL, Zucker and Forbort are two players that come to mind. The fact remains that players come from all over the place, BCHL, USHL, AJHL, NAHL. Edited May 5, 2013 by Goon Quote
scpa0305 Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Actually your argument is fallacious, because the US NTDP used to play their games in the NAHL so you have a plethora of players that cut their teeth in the NAHL, Zucker and Forbort are two players that come to mind. The fact remains that players come from all over the place, BCHL, USHL, AJHL, NAHL. True...I guess I would have to exclude the US team. If you exclude them there are very few top notch skaters (who are great in college or have successful careers after college) who come from the NA. I'm pretty sure (I think) you know what I'm talking about )....the US team comment was a reach, but you are correct. The US team is almost a complete separate program which played NA team to gain experience (due to NA players being so old). Jacque Lam played in the NA, he was a solid college player but was never drafted and I think his numbers were a tad inflated due to the league he played in....but he was solid. Every once in awhile those players will come around. But again, my point is that I would be fine missing out on an NA skater and take my chance on a more highly heralded player who may be drafted. Quote
petey23 Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Both the USHL and NAHL are good leagues, but the USHL talent level is clearly superior. Both leagues serve a purpose. Fargo let 2 kids(Pohlkamp and Dzahkof) go to Bismarck since they were not getting quality ice time and playing time for Fargo and now they are probably the top 2 guys for Bismarck.....my friends nephew had a chance to play with the Force a couple years ago coming out of high school as an undersized defensemen. For Fargo that year he would have been their 6th or 7th Dman so he went to Aberdeen and was in their first d pairing, skated on the power play and the power play kill and then played for Fargo last year and was their 2nd best Dman behind Cooper and he ended up playing a regular shift for Miami this year as a freshmen. Quote
Goon Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I would like to remind you that Faragher is a nahl product and because of him, we have not had the dominance over SCSU in recent years. Yeah good point, because the goalie that they had before him was of USHL talent level, who went 0-6-1 for his career against UND. Quote
collegehockeywatcher Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 OK Captains of the Obvious, everybody knows the USHL is by far the best supplier of players to NCAA D-1...you seem to claim it as inside knowledge...sometimes some very good players come from other leagues like the NAHL...this too is common knowledge. Quote
Goon Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 OK Captains of the Obvious, everybody knows the USHL is by far the best supplier of players to NCAA D-1...you seem to claim it as inside knowledge...sometimes some very good players come from other leagues like the NAHL...this too is common knowledge. I think there is a lot of people know what your talking about and I agreed with your posts from earlier too... I would imagine there are others that do too. Quote
collegehockeywatcher Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 I think there is a lot of people know what your talking about and I agreed with your posts from earlier too... I would imagine there are others that do too. Thanks Goon - appreciate all the work you do on your blog. 1 Quote
Goon Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Thanks Goon - appreciate all the work you do on your blog. Thanks I am inspired by Haji and Schloss. Quote
yzerman19 Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 The bickering on this thread is pretty funny- Did you know that each league in the CHL produces more top end prospects than the USHL and the NAHL combined... The bottom line is hockey is an early development game for prospects. The best go to Canada, the next best to the USHL, the NAHL is a great place for late bloomers to keep their hockey dream alive... Some guys choose college... You could make the same debate about high school hockey in Minnesota vs going Midget AAA... There are always diamonds in the rough and guys that can play, but never got a chance/look when they were younger (Penner anyone?) Quote
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