PCM Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 My position throughout this debate has been that in a free and democratic society, a minority of a minority should not be allowed to dictate to the majority. The [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 My position throughout this debate has been that in a free and democratic society, a minority of a minority should not be allowed to dictate to the majority. The [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 My position throughout this debate has been that in a free and democratic society, a minority of a minority should not be allowed to dictate to the majority. That is totally wrong. I have a stinking suspicion the NCAA is going to take these loud minority's complaints as more weighted than what the Majority wants. What next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 It's generally growing more and more expected that the NCAA is going to reject the appeal. And when they do, the lawsuit will begin. Hopefully, the lawsuit will be such a financial burden to the NCAA that they'll be forced to realize that it's going to cost a lot of money to pick on schools for reasons that they really have no right to get involved in. But PCM is right, but even if he is, it's not going to matter. As far as I'm concerned that minority of a minority is winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Hopefully, the lawsuit will be such a financial burden to the NCAA that they'll be forced to realize that it's going to cost a lot of money to pick on schools for reasons that they really have no right to get involved in. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> redwing, I admire your optimism, but the NCAA has more money than (obviously) sense. If UND sues after their appeal is rejected, the NCAA will just open the $$ tap and win a war of attrition. They bought the NIT fer cryin' out loud! Unless UND can find a sugar daddy to bankroll what will surely be a long, long court battle, the NCAA can afford to let this thing slog its way through the courts and appeals and more appeals for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Just a thought: What if the State of North Dakota enters the lawsuit on UND's side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 (edited) Just a thought: What if the State of North Dakota enters the lawsuit on UND's side? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why would they? I'm not being contrary or disrespectful here, I just wonder what the basis would be for them to do this. They would have to justify the cost of the lawsuit to the tax payers of the state. While the majority of the state wants to keep the name and logo, I don't know if they would agree to pay for the right to keep them. Another thought, scary thought , as a state institution, does UND need the 'ok' from the state/taxpayers to proceed with a lawsuit? Edited September 11, 2005 by Sioux-cia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFSIOUX#1 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 My position throughout this debate has been that in a free and democratic society, a minority of a minority should not be allowed to dictate to the majority. The [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Why would they? Because as it stands now, UND has no authority to do what the NCAA wants it to do. The State Board of Higher Education, which governs all of North Dakota's institutions of higher learning, mandated that UND retain the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. The NCAA says here: The membership-driven action to apply a diversity and inclusion policy at NCAA championships is not unprecedented. In 2001, the Executive Committee adopted similar provisions regarding schools in states whose flags incorporate the Confederate battle flag. Under those policies, however, schools that earn the right to host championship competition (for example, a Division I baseball or softball regional) may do so. The Native American mascot policy is stricter in that regard, since the Executive Committee believes an institution has more control over its nickname than its home state flag.In UND's case, it doesn't have any more control over its nickname than the state flag because it must follow what the SBoHE says. The State of North Dakota might want to know what business a private association has in attempting to overturn the decsion of a state government. They would have to justify the cost of the lawsuit to the tax payers of the state. According to the latest polls, I'd expect that most state taxpayers wouldn't have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Your exactly correct, and I think UND should keep the name no matter what the result of the NCAA appeal or a lawsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Another question the State of North Dakota might want to ask the NCAA is how it can penalize UND's athletic teams in playoff competition for a decision that UND did not make and has no authority to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 This is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 According to the latest polls, I'd expect that most state taxpayers wouldn't have a problem with it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I sure hope you're right. My experience in life in North Dakota makes me uneasy. Time after time additional education expenditures have been voted down by North Dakota taxpayers. Most taxpayers are for better education, but most want someone else to pay for it as witnessed by the ND's average teacher's salary being in the bottom 5-10 year after year. I sure hope you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Another question the State of North Dakota might want to ask the NCAA is how it can penalize UND's athletic teams in playoff competition for a decision that UND did not make and has no authority to change? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Excellent point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 I sure hope you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 It would probably be cheaper for the case to be run out of the Attorney General's office than it woud be for UND to take it on alone. After all, that's why the AG is there. I'd also think that taking on a state government -- even if it's one as small as North Dakota's -- might give the NCAA pause. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was just thinking that. The State does have the right to the AG's office, not sure how it would work in this particular case though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 (edited) Edited September 11, 2005 by Sioux-cia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I don't understand that. How can five years ago the Board decide that UND is going to keep the name, but now pretty much say it's none of their business? They decide whether UND should or should not keep the name, but provide no support to enforce their own decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCWaters Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I don't understand that. How can five years ago the Board decide that UND is going to keep the name, but now pretty much say it's none of their business? They decide whether UND should or should not keep the name, but provide no support to enforce their own decision? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> All I can think is its a different board with a different chancellor...different ideas, maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 This is not an option. Going on the road for every single football playoff game and never again hosting a basketball regional will permanently damage our athletic programs and is not acceptable. You think any top recruits will choose UND again? You think our coaches will stick around under those circumstances? The answer to those questions is no. You could kiss Dale Lennon and Gene Roebuck goodbye if we went along with that arrangement. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Disagree and I relate this to hockey in a historical perspective (I say this with the opinion that UND should be allowed to keep the name, logo and everything else that says Fighting Sioux). SEVEN national championships and the last time I checked no regionals at home; first round of the WCHA playoffs and that is it. (I am a youngster relatively speaking - mid-30s's so I don't know what went on in the 50's, 60's and 70's, but after that . . . .) At this point, an agrument that states UND can't win a national championship if they don't have a home NCAA playoff game appears to be an incorrect statement. As far as I recollect, Gino was forced out and Deano left of his own volition without having a home national playoff series/game late, late in season and they both coached teams to national championships. As for top recruits turning their back on UND as stated, the following may disagree: Russ Romaniuk, Greg Johnson, Landon Wilson, Jason Blake, Lee Goren, Ryan Bayda, Travis Roche, Brandon Bochenski, Zach Parise, Travis Zajac, Jonathon Toews . . . . Home playoff games are beneficial, but they have NOT been the key to UND's postseason success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 For hockey perhaps, but going to another school's stadium for football is completely different. Most times in hockey you are playing on neutral ice, in football this is never true unless you're in the NC game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Kupchella and Pam Kostelecky, president of the state Board of Higher Education, said their organizations support ongoing talks with the state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND83 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Going on the road for every single football playoff game Why would you have to? For Football playoffs, covering up the name and logo wouldn't be that big of a deal. Hockey is a much bigger problem, but it only effects the NCAA playoffs so UND would not get a bid for another regional for the frozen four, but could in theory still host the frozen five. It is possible, but very unlikely that the NCAA would give UND a bid for a regional beyond the current contract anyway. I could be wrong, but I don't think the NCAA is exactly in love with Grand Forks and it's ability to bring in, and have space for a bunch of people. I don't doubt the city will do a good job, but I think the NCAA liked bigger cities to host such events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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