Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[PCM]

I've driven past that area many times and have seen the statue, which is quite large. It seems to me that this probably wasn't some random act of vandalism. The area is well lit at night and there's a fairly high amount of traffic. I'm guessing that it would have been planned and that whoever did it had the right tools for the job to get it done quickly without attracting much attention.

[Rick]

What kind of an idiot steals something like that?

As soon as I read HockeyMom's post, my first thought is that it's probably on the NDSU campus. They probably have it confused with the Nickle Trophy because it's been such a long time since they've seen it.

Even if it isn't someone from the NDSU, it's most likely someone who should be from there.

[redwing77]

How long will it be before they blame the nickname for the theft?

[Goon]

How long will it be before they blame the nickname for the theft?

I am sure that is going to be this week.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

It could be anyone.

Yes. It could be someone who loves North Dakota, someone who hates North Dakota. It could be someone who loves the nickname; or... it could be someone who HATES the nickname...

The motive could be as simple as someone wanting the eagle for their own or someone who thinks they can sell it and make a buck. At this point, only the thief knows for sure.

Don't discount any possibilities.

[Goon]

By the way that thing isn't small and I can't imagine how someone just wheeled in there and took the thing without someone seeing them. That thing has to be heavy too. It would be say that someone just didn't run off with it.

[siouxfan77]

Hopefully that doesn't make its way to the F4.

PCM...hate to disagree w/ you, but the frat houses probably wouldn't be a bad place to start. I'm not saying that a frat did it, and I hate to point fingers, but I'm just saying... Fraternity...alcohol...campus prank... Its not too farfetched. If this is the case, no real harm was probably meant, but that's not something that you should be doing. And unfortunately, someone on campus probably is that stupid.

Hope they catch them before they do something dumb(er). Also, if the thief is reading...please return it. Not cool!

[PCM]

PCM...hate to disagree w/ you, but the frat houses probably wouldn't be a bad place to start. I'm not saying that a frat did it, and I hate to point fingers, but I'm just saying... Fraternity...alcohol...campus prank... Its not too farfetched.

I've never belonged to a frat and never had any desire to. So it's not like I feel any need to defend them. But making accusations targeting a group with absolutely no proof is just plain wrong, especially when there are a broad range of possibilities. You wouldn't like it if someone pointed the finger at group to which you belonged, would you?

Edited April 2, 2007 by PCM

[dagies]

But making accusations targeting a group with absolutely no proof is just plain wrong, especially when there are a broad range of possibilities. You wouldn't like it if someone pointed the finger a group to which you belonged, would you?

I think you are overgeneralizing here. I think we can all agree to blame the gophers, can't we?

[dakotadan]

PCM...hate to disagree w/ you, but the frat houses probably wouldn't be a bad place to start.

Or Walsh Hall. Or any of the other dorms on campus full of students who drink. Or students of other universities. Or heck, even name changers looking to create some negative publicity right before the hockey tournament.

I was a member of a fraternity. If any of us had ever been involved in something like this, we would have been immediately dismissed from the chapter and never have an opportunity to be an active member again. If it was multiple people from a chapter, the fraternity risks sanctions and punishments from the university.

So as others have pointed out, until more information is known, there is no use pointing fingers.

[redwing77]

Pointing fingers with absolutely no evidence is reprehensible, in my opinion.

I would prefer to think that nobody on campus would be so stupid.

I agree with you. I'd also like to think that nobody on campus would be so stupid, but there are stupid people. Especially when alcohol starts flowing.

I'm also not saying the frats did it for sure or were even behind it, but I can't help but think that there is a chance that they could be.

To give the complete benefit of the doubt, I wouldn't think any SOBER frat person (or otherwise) would do something like this. To me, you go to the most likely culprits. The people potentially stupid enough to do it expecting (and hoping) to be wrong.

It's no different than saying that NDSU might be behind it, or something more devious like the anti-nicknamers framing the pro-nicknamers so they have tangible "proof" that the nickname causes a negative atmosphere for Native Americans.

All we have, to our knowledge, is conspiracy theories and finger pointing. Until some proof or some leads arise, that's all that will be heard, whether you'd prefer not to or whatever.

dakotadan- Forgive my blind bias against Frats, but I actually think they are capable of doing something like this, given a few bets or pressure of some kind, a boring stretch of time, and alcohol.

I must point out that not all Frats are bad nor every frat member of even the "bad" frats are bad either. I guess I'll admit my bias is based upon never having a single positive experience with a frat member or frat house. I've been around many bad experiences caused directly or indirectly by frats over time so forgive my attitude.

[PCM]

I somehow missed this column by Dennis Dodd, CBS SportsLine.com Senior Writer, published prior to the Frozen Four. Kudos to T.J. Oshie and his father Tim for representing UND so well.

Frozen Four: Fighting Sioux must beat NCAA, too

Essentially, the NCAA doesn't want a Native American (or his teammates) to wear the image of a Native American -- or at least a school logo it deems "hostile" and "abusive."

That's how silly a now-20-month old edict from the NCAA has become. The school has filed suit against the NCAA to prove its logo -- designed by a Native American by the way -- is not offensive.

The two sides are trying to resolve things out of court before a December trial date, but that hasn't stopped the incredible irony. The logo/mascot controversy has reached an incredibly stupid critical mass. Is it really possible for a Native American in some convoluted way to disrespect Native Americans by wearing a jersey?

"We really like the name we have right now, we don't want to give it up," Oshie said. "I'm not offended."

North Dakota president Charles Kupchella might be the smartest man in the whole debate. In a scathing letter to the NCAA in June, he summarized the pursuit of logo violators.

Pontiac is an NCAA corporate sponsor. Pontiac the person was also an Ottawa chief.

"Both the NCAA and General Motors may well have gotten the permission of the descendants of Chief Pontiac or the Ottawa Tribe," Kupchella wrote.

We told you things were getting silly.

[LB#11]

I somehow missed this column by Dennis Dodd, CBS SportsLine.com Senior Writer, published prior to the Frozen Four. Kudos to T.J. Oshie and his father Tim for representing UND so well.

Frozen Four: Fighting Sioux must beat NCAA, too

Nice find PCM. An actual story that supports President Kupchella and the majority on this issue.

[Goon]

From the Fargo Fish Wrapper

NCAA lawsuit costing more than $300,000 so far

Amy Dalrymple, The Forum

Published Tuesday, April 10, 2007

Salt Lake City-based attorneys representing North Dakota in the lawsuit against the NCAA have billed more than $315,000 to the University of North Dakota Foundation.

The UND Alumni Association and Foundation provided documents to The Forum Tuesday that for the first time answer how much the lawsuit over the Fighting Sioux nickname is costing.

On March 9, the Foundation paid the Fabian & Clendenin law firm $164,589.44, the entire amount in the Foundation

[Goon]

Nice find PCM. An actual story that supports President Kupchella and the majority on this issue.

That is a nicely written article.

[Chewey]

Given the recent GF Herald article about the Utah lawyers' bill, get ready for the anti-nickname crowd to cry about how big of a "waste" the lawsuit is and how the money could be directed to better purposes. Whatever it takes to beat the NC00, in my opinion, is just fine.

[Goon]

Given the recent GF Herald article about the Utah lawyers' bill, get ready for the anti-nickname crowd to cry about how big of a "waste" the lawsuit is and how the money could be directed to better purposes. Whatever it takes to beat the NC00, in my opinion, is just fine.

I think its silly for those people to suggest that money would have gone to something else at the university. We don't know that for sure. I fine with that too, whatever it takes to slap the NCAA.

[Hawkster]

Given the recent GF Herald article about the Utah lawyers' bill, get ready for the anti-nickname crowd to cry about how big of a "waste" the lawsuit is and how the money could be directed to better purposes. Whatever it takes to beat the NC00, in my opinion, is just fine.

You beat me to the punch, but yep, I do think that the third of a million $ we have just wasted could have been used elsewhere. By the time this goes through the endless appeals, I can see we are talking $1 million+.

No use arguing the merits of the name, we've gone through this before. I just feel it's time to cut our loses and find a new logo.

[dagies]

You beat me to the punch, but yep, I do think that the third of a million $ we have just wasted could have been used elsewhere. By the time this goes through the endless appeals, I can see we are talking $1 million+.

No use arguing the merits of the name, we've gone through this before. I just feel it's time to cut our loses and find a new logo.

The fatal assumption people make is that this money, if not going to the lawsuit fund, would go to UND for other uses. That's just too much of a stretch to make. I would guess the majority of alumni are giving to UND what they want to give to the University. It's an assumption (maybe incorrect, but I don't think so) I'm making that the majority of the money going to UND to fight the NCAA would likely have gone to a new boat, a vacation, or other personal uses, not to the university for other things. But those alumni who are giving decided they'd rather see UND keep the name and that was worth giving more for.

[PCM]

You beat me to the punch, but yep, I do think that the third of a million $ we have just wasted could have been used elsewhere. By the time this goes through the endless appeals, I can see we are talking $1 million+.

Who is "we"? I wasn't aware that "your" money was being spent.

No use arguing the merits of the name, we've gone through this before. I just feel it's time to cut our loses and find a new logo.

Yeah. To hell with free speech and free expression. They're such outdated ideas. Allowing protected classes to censor words and images they don't like but use themselves is so much more enlightened. It's best to simply allow the NCAA to label UND a racist institution without a shred of evidence and move on. Plus, being under the thumb of a "member-driven" organization that rules by executive fiat is really cool. Anyone who's not for that must be an idiot.

[The Sicatoka]

$315,000 wouldn't buy new uniforms.

You want to get into the "all that money spent" argument be prepared to answer a multi-million dollar changeover question and where that money would come from.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I just feel it's time to cut our loses and find a new logo.

Yes, because the new logo will automatically be controversy-free, and supported to the same extent as the old logo by all who presently support the Sioux.

And of course, the new logo will be chosen by.... why, it will be chosen by you and your classmates. The ones who have already discussed this, and come to all the conclusions necessary.

I am so glad that Illinois is not the only place where these "arguments" are presented as the ultimate solution.

[The Sicatoka]

And of course, the new logo will be chosen by.... why, it will be chosen by you and your small cadre of like-minded classmates.

Fixed your post.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

small cadre of like-minded classmates.

When Illinois had a very expensive (something between $250-350k) "intake session" a few years back, the numbers worked out to about 85-90% of the people who bothered to respond supporting Chief Illiniwek. I could have told them that for half the price.

And as many pointed out at the time, the really motivated group was the people who didn't like Chief. If any opinion wasn't offered, more than likely they were pro-Illiniwek.

[Uncle_Rico]

You beat me to the punch, but yep, I do think that the third of a million $ we have just wasted could have been used elsewhere. By the time this goes through the endless appeals, I can see we are talking $1 million+.

No use arguing the merits of the name, we've gone through this before. I just feel it's time to cut our loses and find a new logo.

Apparently you don't understand the cost of changing the name and logo of a school. The cost of the lawsuit will be fraction of the cost to change the logo. Do you think changing the name will just take care of itself?