Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Runninwiththedogs]

Unless things changed (again) and that is certainly possible, the legal drinking age in Illinois is 21. It used to be 21 several years ago, then it was lowered to 19. It was then raised to 21 again around 1980.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are very right about the drinking age, it is 21 in Champaign, but to gain admission to the bars, you have to be 19. Of course, what you do once you're in there is your own problem.

[Goon]

My e-mail to Seth Davis at SI.com:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pat,

you will never get a response back because he won't have an answer that is even close to being intellegent. Great piece. I wounder if GK can refute it or come up with an answer? Probably not...

I also think that Leigh Jeanotte is a poser and is trying to make a name for himself and further his agenda, Jeanotte and his vocal minority have been trying to pick a fight with the pro-name change crowd and this is his best chance to stuff his views down our throat. I say UND stand its ground and sue the NCAA if we lose the appeal. UND can't just give in because of a vocal minority wants something. This is a shake down in my opinion. Its almost like Jessie Jackson himself is pulling the strings on this one.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Goon

[redwing77]

Pat,

you will never get a response back because he won't have an answer that is even close to being intellegent. Great piece. I wounder if GK can refute it or come up with an answer? Probably not...

I also think that Leigh Jeanotte is a poser and is trying to make a name for himself and further his agenda, Jeanotte and his vocal minority have been trying to pick a fight with the pro-name change crowd and this is his best chance to stuff his views down our throat. I say UND stand its ground and sue the NCAA if we lose the appeal. UND can't just give in because of a vocal minority wants something. This is a shake down in my opinion. Its almost like Jessie Jackson himself is pulling the strings on this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will the NCAA ever make a ruling? It's getting ridiculous!

[Goon]

Will the NCAA ever make a ruling?  It's getting ridiculous!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its like pee or get off the pot already.

[Sioux-cia]

You are very right about the drinking age, it is 21 in Champaign, but to gain admission to the bars, you have to be 19. Of course, what you do once you're in there is your own problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DANG!! And all that time I thought I was being really sneaky!

[HockeyMom]

[A.B.T.G.]

And the NC$$ ruling is....

[PCM]

Doreen Yellow Bird has a column about the Sioux name issue in today's Grand Forks Herald.

Sioux City stays if UND Sioux goes

Once upon a time, there is a gang that called themselves "The Snakes." They gave themselves this name to inspire fear and trembling in rival gangs. (That was good reasoning, by the way. If you said "Snakes suck" in their presence, you'd better be itching for a fight.)

They took this name because snakes, especially poisonous snakes, have a reputation of being dangerous and almost evil.

Calling UND's athletes "Fighting Sioux" serves a similar purpose, but it also says this group of people was warlike. We know the history: In this area, for example, 38 Sioux were hung as punishment for raids that killed settlers.

From PJStar.com:

Drinking it all in with a six-pack

Public backlash has been more substantial than anticipated. Everyday people were repulsed by the NCAA's harsh words and strong-arm tactics. The organization caved - to a point.

Whether this signals a sea change remains to be seen.

[Sioux-cia]

Doreen Yellow Bird has a column about the Sioux name issue in today's Grand Forks Herald.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I found if you tell them or they experience what happens to Indian people around the name of the Fighting Sioux, they say throw it out - unless, of course, they have an ulterior motive.

Yeah one hundred to thirty years ago!

[

B]Calling UND's athletes "Fighting Sioux" serves a similar purpose, but it also says this group of people was warlike. We know the history: In this area, for example, 38 Sioux were hung as punishment for raids that killed settlers.

Sioux name supporters believe the strenght and 'warlike' attributes of the Sioux are worthy of respect and honor even though back in the day, they killed settlers. They don't do that anymore, do they?

It's a bloody history.

Exactly, it's history. History of a war similar to many that took place all over the world when 'new' land was found and ''non-natives' wanted to settle there.

Some UND fans separate American Indians into two groups: the mythical warrior of the past (for example, the "Fighting Sioux") and Indian people of today, whom they see as alcoholic and poverty-stricken. Go home, take care of those problems and leave the name alone, we are told. It's as if the honor belongs only to the myth.

There is honor in accomplishment. The American Indians who have completed the American Indian programs at UND and gone into the American Indian communities to help change the problems of American Indians are respected and honored.

When you look for an Indian person to agree that they like the name, you'll find one.

Must that ONE 'hang aroung the fort', 'rabbit choking', 'plantation negro mentality'

American Indian we've been hearing about.

But I also know some good people who support the name.

I know good people who do not support the name. They don't call me names or put me down or insult me because I do support the name. Nor do they do that to other name supporters including other American Indians.

[ScottM]

Everytime the Hurled prints anything by Doreen YellowBird, on any topic, it just reinforces its tabloid status.

[fightonsioux]

Either the word Sioux is deragatory or its not. Dorreen can't have it both ways. Sioux City represents a city full of humans. If UND Sioux change Sioux City should change.

[dagies]

Doreen Yellow Bird has a column about the Sioux name issue in today's Grand Forks Herald.

Well, Mr. Presidents, it's the difference between buildings, cities, rivers and human beings. I see no city or river feeling insulted when a student stands beside it, cupping his hands and yelling, "Big Sioux River, you suck." Rivers hardly babble at the thought, and a city on the receiving end of such a slur might belch only a little pollution.

The Big Muddy could care less if you dip your toe into her waters and call her filthy and dirty.

Well, the TEAM is named the Fighting Sioux. I doubt they feel bad when a gopher fan yells "Sioux Suck" either. But BOTH examples (someone yelling at a river and someone yelling at a team) require someone to HEAR what is being yelled, and end up offended by it. Doreen's river example doesn't wash. Put GrahamKracker on the bank of that river and he'd go "Fighting Sioux" on you.

Some UND fans separate American Indians into two groups: the mythical warrior of the past (for example, the "Fighting Sioux") and Indian people of today, whom they see as alcoholic and poverty-stricken. Go home, take care of those problems and leave the name alone, we are told. It's as if the honor belongs only to the myth.

This is what I don't get. When I think of "The Fighting Sioux" I think of Crazy Horse's merry band that wiped out Custer. For UND's sports teams, it's that type of attitude and ability that merits association. And I don't see why this is somehow abusive.

[PCM]

This is what I don't get.  When I think of "The Fighting Sioux" I think of Crazy Horse's merry band that wiped out Custer.  For UND's sports teams, it's that type of attitude and ability that merits association.  And I don't see why this is somehow abusive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's because you're not literal-minded enough. You're supposed to look at a Sioux athletic team and think, "Hey, wait a minute! Those athletes aren't real Sioux Indians! They're white people! Just what the heck is UND trying to pull here, anyway? I'm offended!"

[PCM]

From the Athens (GA) Banner-Herald:

No plans to rename mascot

La.-Monroe to remain Indians despite NCAA

Florida State (the Seminoles), Utah (the Utes) and Central Michigan (the Chippewas) were removed from the list after they showed support from local tribes. Lousiana-Monroe plans to appeal as well.

"Obviously we feel we treat the Native Americans with a great deal of respect, especially the tribes here in Louisiana," Louisiana-Monroe athletic director Bobby Staub said. "That's why we are reactivating the (self-study) committee and having them come together and basically state our case and we'll see."

Louisiana-Monroe has spoken to fellow Sun Belt member Arkansas State, which also has the nickname Indians, about its plans for the appeal process.

[Sioux-cia]

From the Athens (GA) Banner-Herald:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe we should talk to these Sun Belt schools. As some one has previously mentioned, a class action suit may be the way to go. Our appeal would carry more weight, and the message First Amendment will also have a bigger impact.

[PCM]

A week after the fact, USA Today runs this story:

North Dakota tribes urge NCAA to deny university's appeal

The Sept. 8 vote came after a United Tribes summit in Bismarck, N.D. The group endorsed a resolution that states, "The name 'Sioux' is derived from a French word which is pejorative in nature and which is offensive to the Tribal Nations who are comprised of people of Lakota, Dakota and Nakota ancestry."

With apologies to Buffalo Springfield: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."

[UND92,96]

A week after the fact, USA Today runs this story:

North Dakota tribes urge NCAA to deny university's appeal

With apologies to Buffalo Springfield: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't understand why the origin of the word "Sioux" is even an issue. Obviously, it's not all that offensive to many people who self-identify themselves as such: example 1

example 2

example 3

example 4

[dagies]

A week after the fact, USA Today runs this story:

North Dakota tribes urge NCAA to deny university's appeal

With apologies to Buffalo Springfield: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."

No, I DON'T think the word Sioux is offensive to the Tribal Nations, considering how many refer to themselves as Sioux. Whatever the origins of the word, the negative connotation long ago lost its meaning. Anyone heard of Yankee Doodle Dandy? The British penned that ditty to make fun of the colonists. Funny, it's part of our national song library now. In fact, there are various reports of the origin of the term Yankee. One option says it was a derogatory term for soldiers in the Revolutionary army. Anyone heard of the New York Yankees?

Time changes things, and any offense being taken by the word Sioux at this point in time, IMO, is voluntarily assumed by the offended person. Considering it wasn't long ago that the casino (Prairie Knights?) was named the Dakota Sioux Casino, I think I can rest my argument right there.

[HockeyMom]

Considering it wasn't long ago that the casino (Prairie Knights?) was named the Dakota Sioux Casino, I think I can rest my argument right there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sarcasm] Only the TRUE SIOUX can call themselves SIOUX! [/sarcasm]

[Sioux-cia]

A week after the fact, USA Today runs this story:

North Dakota tribes urge NCAA to deny university's appeal

With apologies to Buffalo Springfield: "There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just a thought, just a little Hmmmm. Since the name 'Sioux' is 'pejorative in nature' and 'is offensive to the tribal Nations', why aren't the American Indians (and the NC$$) who are offended by the word 'Sioux', lobbying to not be referred to as 'Sioux' by the state, feds, etc. These agencies, not UND, actually named this Tribal Nation, this population of American Indians, 'Sioux'. UND has named their athletic teams 'Sioux'. The athletes, to the best of my knowledge, are not offended by being referred to as 'Sioux'.

Just a thought.

[PCM]

Go to the Indian Country Today Web site. Type the word "Sioux" into the search engine and see how many stories come up.

If an American Indian newspaper has no problem using the word "Sioux" to identify people and tribes, how can anyone claim that it's offensive?

[The Sicatoka]

From the Dakota Student and quoting Tex Hall:

A poll published in The Forum of Fargo on Friday, Sept. 9, said that 63 percent of Native Americans supported UND's use of the Sioux moniker.

... He said the small sample does not represent all the Native Americans of North Dakota and that they have no authority in the issue.

"Authority lies in the elected officials of the tribes," he said.

Let's look at that again:

... He said ... the Native Americans of North Dakota ... have no authority in the issue.

"Authority lies in the elected officials of the tribes."

Translated:

Only Tex's opinion matters, not the opinion of the people who elected him.

PS - Isn't Tex a member of the Three Affiliated Tribes (Mandan, Hidatsa, Arikara)?

[HockeyMom]

Translated:

Only Tex's opinion matters, not the opinion of the people who elected him.

PS - Isn't Tex a member of the Three Affiliated Tribes (Mandan, Hidatsa, Arikara)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure the people that elected him would like to hear that.

[UND92,96]

From the Dakota Student and quoting Tex Hall:

Let's look at that again:

Translated:

Only Tex's opinion matters, not the opinion of the people who elected him.

PS - Isn't Tex a member of the Three Affiliated Tribes (Mandan, Hidatsa, Arikara)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read the article and found it very interesting that Hall used the relationship between Florida State and the Seminole tribe as the model to which UND should aspire. I certainly can't dispute that it's important for UND to have a good relationship with the tribes of ND, and particularly the Sioux/Lakota/Nakota/Dakota, but it's ironic to me that from what I could find on the FSU website, this so-called model institution has NO Indian Studies department or Indian programs to speak of. Just which school should be emulating the other in this case?

[HockeyMom]

I read the article and found it very interesting that Hall used the relationship between Florida State and the Seminole tribe as the model to which UND should aspire. I certainly can't dispute that it's important for UND to have a good relationship with the tribes of ND, and particularly the Sioux/Lakota/Nakota/Dakota, but it's ironic to me that from what I could find on the FSU website, this so-called model institution has NO Indian Studies department or Indian programs to speak of. Just which school should be emulating the other in this case?

I heard that the Seminole tribe has made a new warrior outfit for the mascot to wear and they are going to have a ceremony to present it during the next home football game. They have things planned like that for all of their home games, just to rub it in the face of the NCAA.