the green team Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Do you guys even read the previous posts--what your attacking is his post that was directly related to MKSiouxs, which basically said they should get some portion of the licensing-- his response... using sarcasm. That's why I posted what I did, and that's the same reason I'm sure he posted what he did. Because the thought of that is just so ludicrous that it either illicits a response like mine, or incredibly sarcastic response like his. But the fact that you guys can't detect the saracasm is concerning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xI Hammer Ix Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Do you guys even read the previous posts--what your attacking is his post that was directly related to MKSiouxs, which basically said they should get some portion of the licensing-- his response... using sarcasm. That's why I posted what I did, and that's the same reason I'm sure he posted what he did. Because the thought of that is just so ludicrous that it either illicits a response like mine, or incredibly sarcastic response like his. But the fact that you guys can't detect the saracasm is concerning. It's hard to read sarcasm. Use an emote next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 The tribes have repeatedly said that the name isn't for sale. They don't want money. As is mentioned above, Florida State does not pay royalties is spite of the fact that everyone assumes that they do. The only people that believe UND should pay for use of the name are those that don't understand the situation or the culture of the Native Americans. If the tribes would like a payment of some kind I wouldn't be opposed to discussing it. But it isn't on the table right now, it hasn't been put on the table by either side, and I don't think that it really will be discussed. It may not be on the table, but it should be and it should have been a long time ago. If, that is, they wanted to approach this like a business partnership. If UND admin just wanted to bully the tribes into giving up the rights to the nickname for nothing, then I suppose what's happened so far (ie, all this garbage about the tribes "doing it on their own time" lol) is about all that's going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 The discussion that Spirit Lake's Vern Lambert had with UND and Ralph officials initially was about scholarships for Spirit Lake members. The current Native American programs at UND are almost entirely run by Chippewas not Sioux. Therein lies much of the on campus opposition, that of Leigh Jenotte, a Chippewa, and his followers. For many years, his was one of the few voices of opposition, it's my opinion that he and others like him eventually convinced some Sioux leaders and some Sioux students that the nickname and logo is insulting and hostile. Also, my opinion, that it stems from historical jealousy between Chippewa and Sioux. I am of Sioux lineage, and it's my opinion that those Chippewa educational leaders would have been alright with the nickname and logo, if it were the Fighting Chippewas. That being said, it is fact that the majority of Native American graduates over the last 25 years have been Chippewas, that is who they have recruited and that is who they have provided the tuition waivers. The Native American programs on campus should have representatively more Sioux and less Chippewa. There, I said it, now argue with me. I don't know much about the NA politics and demographics in ND, but what you said does seem to shed some light on the subject that I had not previously seen before. Thanks. It does seem like the Sioux have a great leverage over UND to get more resources for their tribes, if they want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 You are an insult to Native American culture and you don't even know enough to realize it. You keep pushing what you want and what you think, on your timeline, without ever considering the Native Americans. I have dealt with tribes enough to know that they will deal with issues in their own time, not yours. That is their culture and the way they do things. You can't change it and neither can the SBOHE. Saying they have had enough time is simply egostistical and a failure to understand their culture. Second, you are insulting them with the discussion of selling the name. In their words they consider any money in exchange for the use of the Fighting Sioux name as an insult. It is not about money. It is about their cultural heritage, customs, and past ceremonies. You are as bad as the outside white experts coming in and telling Native Americans what they should want and think. For just once, spend some time reading up about what the various factions of the tribe have been saying on the issue and what concerns them. Try to understand it rather than force your fantasies into their realm. There is no such thing as "on their own time". That's a line of garbage. That's called not being a partner and not working with the other side. It's reasonable to request more time, but it's not reasonable to take a year to make a decision that only needs a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 There is no such thing as "on their own time". That's a line of garbage. That's called not being a partner and not working with the other side. It's reasonable to request more time, but it's not reasonable to take a year to make a decision that only needs a month. You just don't get it. It is their culture and the way they do things. It doesn't matter whether you think it is reasonable or not. If a tribe of cannibals had you in a pot of oil as they are preparing to cook you for supper you would be too busy arguing with them that they should use cholesterol free oil for cooking, and fail to see that you are the main course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Do you guys even read the previous posts--what your attacking is his post that was directly related to MKSiouxs, which basically said they should get some portion of the licensing-- his response... using sarcasm. That's why I posted what I did, and that's the same reason I'm sure he posted what he did. Because the thought of that is just so ludicrous that it either illicits a response like mine, or incredibly sarcastic response like his. But the fact that you guys can't detect the saracasm is concerning. If the tribes don't want anything, then fine. But I still maintain the best way to ensure that this issue doesn't keep coming up year after year after year after year after year is to make the tribes a real partner in this with a real vested interest. There are numerous ways to do that. Knickball mentioned scholarships. I think that's a good place to start. To be clear though, I do not think any long-term agreement needs to be in place to retain the nickname. I think a long-term agreement is a goal, but should not be a requirement to keeping the nickname. As long as UND is in compliance with the NCAA settlement agreement, that should be enough to retain the nickname in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnysioux Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 We should set-up a scholarship fund. Example: $500/semester for any Spirit Lake or Standing Rock member carrying a C average or greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 For those who may be interested in attending, maybe this deserves its own thread, mods decide: Dear colleagues: Our campus will soon host Time Out Week and Wacipi (Pow Wow) activities, which will be held from April 12 through April 17. These celebrations of Native American cultural traditions have been an enriching part of the UND experience for more than four decades because of the hard work of students in the UND Indian Association and the Indian Studies Association. I encourage you to participate in as many of the activities during that week as your schedule permits. The listing of Time Out Week activities on American Indian culture can be found at http://www.und.edu/dept/indian/timeout2010.pdf The week of ceremonies, lectures, and readings begins at 11:00 am on Monday, April 12, and continues through Friday afternoon. The Wacipi schedule for Friday and Saturday, April 16 and 17, is available at http://www.und.edu/org/undia/Powwow2010.8.5.11.pdf The opportunity for our students to learn more about and become engaged with Native American cultures is one of the highlights of our academic year. Please encourage your students to take advantage of this opportunity. If any of the presentations or activities are relevant to the subject matter that you are teaching this semester, it would be particularly helpful to point out to students how they relate to what they are studying with you. Our university offers the ability for all of us to gain a better understanding of the American Indian cultures and peoples of our state and region. Your cooperation in promoting campus community attendance at these culturally rich events will help to make the upcoming 40th Anniversary Time Out Week events a success. Thank you for that cooperation. Sincerely, Paul LeBel, Interim Provost & Vice President for Academic Affairs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Our campus will soon host Time Out Week and Wacipi (Pow Wow) activities, which will be held from April 12 through April 17. These celebrations of Native American cultural traditions have been an enriching part of the UND experience for more than four decades because of the hard work of students in the UND Indian Association and the Indian Studies Association. I encourage you to participate in as many of the activities during that week as your schedule permits. The listing of Time Out Week activities on American Indian culture can be found at http://www.und.edu/dept/indian/timeout2010.pdf The week of ceremonies, lectures, and readings begins at 11:00 am on Monday, April 12, and continues through Friday afternoon. The Wacipi schedule for Friday and Saturday, April 16 and 17, is available at http://www.und.edu/org/undia/Powwow2010.8.5.11.pdf The opportunity for our students to learn more about and become engaged with Native American cultures is one of the highlights of our academic year. Please encourage your students to take advantage of this opportunity. If any of the presentations or activities are relevant to the subject matter that you are teaching this semester, it would be particularly helpful to point out to students how they relate to what they are studying with you. Our university offers the ability for all of us to gain a better understanding of the American Indian cultures and peoples of our state and region. Your cooperation in promoting campus community attendance at these culturally rich events will help to make the upcoming 40th Anniversary Time Out Week events a success. Thank you for that cooperation. Sincerely, Paul LeBel, Interim Provost & Vice President for Academic Affairs I love this 'celebration'. When I'm for at the same time it occurs, I always attend. Great times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ticklethetwine Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 For those who may be interested in attending, maybe this deserves its own thread, mods decide: Dear colleagues: Our campus will soon host Time Out Week and Wacipi (Pow Wow) activities, which will be held from April 12 through April 17. These celebrations of Native American cultural traditions have been an enriching part of the UND experience for more than four decades because of the hard work of students in the UND Indian Association and the Indian Studies Association. I encourage you to participate in as many of the activities during that week as your schedule permits. The listing of Time Out Week activities on American Indian culture can be found at http://www.und.edu/dept/indian/timeout2010.pdf The week of ceremonies, lectures, and readings begins at 11:00 am on Monday, April 12, and continues through Friday afternoon. The Wacipi schedule for Friday and Saturday, April 16 and 17, is available at http://www.und.edu/org/undia/Powwow2010.8.5.11.pdf The opportunity for our students to learn more about and become engaged with Native American cultures is one of the highlights of our academic year. Please encourage your students to take advantage of this opportunity. If any of the presentations or activities are relevant to the subject matter that you are teaching this semester, it would be particularly helpful to point out to students how they relate to what they are studying with you. Our university offers the ability for all of us to gain a better understanding of the American Indian cultures and peoples of our state and region. Your cooperation in promoting campus community attendance at these culturally rich events will help to make the upcoming 40th Anniversary Time Out Week events a success. Thank you for that cooperation. Sincerely, Paul LeBel, Interim Provost & Vice President for Academic Affairs Dang. That email just got sent out and you already have it posted. The ink is barely dried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Dang. That email just got sent out and you already have it posted. The ink is barely dried. Yeah, I remember discussing this awhile ago, and several people said they would attend this, but never received info about when and where it was. I think it gets publicized fairly well on campus, but not in the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 You just don't get it. It is their culture and the way they do things. It doesn't matter whether you think it is reasonable or not. If a tribe of cannibals had you in a pot of oil as they are preparing to cook you for supper you would be too busy arguing with them that they should use cholesterol free oil for cooking, and fail to see that you are the main course. Here's my point: what if they said that it was their culture such that they were not allowed to make a decision until 100 years had passed? Obviously that's ridiculous. But when does it stop becoming ridiculous? 10 years? 5 years? 1 year? There's some amount of time where you say "ok, you've had enough time to consult the spirit elders or whatever, what is your decision". How long is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tho0505 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Here's my point: what if they said that it was their culture such that they were not allowed to make a decision until 100 years had passed? Obviously that's ridiculous. But when does it stop becoming ridiculous? 10 years? 5 years? 1 year? There's some amount of time where you say "ok, you've had enough time to consult the spirit elders or whatever, what is your decision". How long is that? The deadline is Nov. They have till November to give us support, else we'll start changing the name. I dont know why you even care, why do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 They need a decision by June. By the way, where is the ND supreme court decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 http://indiancountrynews.net/index.php?opt...d=109Referendum on Fighting Sioux nickname sought Bismarck, North Dakota (AP) March 2010 Standing Rock Sioux tribal members may be voting on whether to support keeping the University of North Dakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreSiouxForYou Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 They need a decision by June. By the way, where is the ND supreme court decision? The Supreme court decision is 4-6 weeks out. June is your time line for the summit. Not stated by any summit officials. The NCAA adn the University agreed on Nov. Also you didn't answer the question of, Why do you Care? from above. You are in Mpls? It's nothing to do withyour tax dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 The Supreme court decision is 4-6 weeks out. June is your time line for the summit. Not stated by any summit officials. The NCAA adn the University agreed on Nov. Also you didn't answer the question of, Why do you Care? from above. You are in Mpls? It's nothing to do withyour tax dollars? It was in the paper that Faison or Kelley was quoted saying that the Summit will meet in June and if UND isn't ready by then they will be skipped over for the 2012 season. Something along those lines, I'm sure someone will correct me with the exact details. Is saving the Sioux nickname worth throwing the 2012-13 non-football/non-hockey schedules away? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxforeverbaby Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 The Supreme court decision is 4-6 weeks out. June is your time line for the summit. Not stated by any summit officials. The NCAA adn the University agreed on Nov. Also you didn't answer the question of, Why do you Care? from above. You are in Mpls? It's nothing to do withyour tax dollars? technically it wasn't the NCAA and the University. It was the NCAA and the ND State Board of Higher Ed acting on the behalf of UND. Which either way, the Summit does not overrule the NCAA. Either way, if they decide to have a vote at the meeting on April 6th, they could theoretically hold the vote before June. I am not sure about this, but if they hold a vote and all that we are waiting on is the 30 year thing imposed by the SBoHE...could the Summit League say that "ok, you have gotten what the NCAA wanted and this should be over with" and admit us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreSiouxForYou Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 It was in the paper that Faison or Kelley was quoted saying that the Summit will meet in June and if UND isn't ready by then they will be skipped over for the 2012 season. Something along those lines, I'm sure someone will correct me with the exact details. Is saving the Sioux nickname worth throwing the 2012-13 non-football/non-hockey schedules away? Nope. The Nickname is worth something and if those programs can field independant schedules, why not they are not playoff eligible anyway. You still didn't answer the other question of why do you care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 It was in the paper that Faison or Kelley was quoted saying that the Summit will meet in June and if UND isn't ready by then they will be skipped over for the 2012 season. Something along those lines, I'm sure someone will correct me with the exact details. Is saving the Sioux nickname worth throwing the 2012-13 non-football/non-hockey schedules away? Nope. Right now and in the foreseeable future UND hockey and football drive the athletic dept.'s engine...from an attendance standpoint and more importantly from a revenue/financial standpoint. Not "throwing away" schedules from the other sports wouldn't change the revenue already generated so why not hang in there on the nickname issue? IMO, UND has more to gain overall by keeping the nickname vs. dumping it just to get into the Summit a year or two sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Right now and in the foreseeable future UND hockey and football drive the athletic dept.'s engine...from an attendance standpoint and more importantly from a revenue/financial standpoint. Not "throwing away" schedules from the other sports wouldn't change the revenue already generated so why not hang in there on the nickname issue? IMO, UND has more to gain overall by keeping the nickname vs. dumping it just to get into the Summit a year or two sooner. If the name was going to be saved, it should've happened by now. There's too much money to be saved by having the rest of the sports in an auto-bid conference, even if the teams aren't yet eligible for the post season tournaments. Your response is, why not wait? My response to that is, why wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 The Nickname is worth something and if those programs can field independant schedules, why not they are not playoff eligible anyway. You still didn't answer the other question of why do you care? I've already answered a hundred times, I want UND in the Summit as soon as possible. There is no reason to waste 2012-13 if they can be in the Summit. Saving the nickname is not a good enough excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB#11 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 I've already answered a hundred times, I want UND in the Summit as soon as possible. There is no reason to waste 2012-13 if they can be in the Summit. Saving the nickname is not a good enough excuse. But a majority of the people here on ss.com and more importantly the people of Spirit Lake want to keep the name. The people of Standing Rock still haven't voted on the issue. You on the other hand could care less if the name remains or is done away with...there lies the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 But a majority of the people here on ss.com and more importantly the people of Spirit Lake want to keep the name. The people of Standing Rock still haven't voted on the issue. You on the other hand should care less if the name remains or is done away with...there lies the difference. Fixed your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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