Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[MplsBison]

Probably just looked at a map and saw that it makes much more sense geographically than any other conference.

That a boy...only way anyone around here is going to take you serious is if your post smacks of smarmy and sarcasm.

[82SiouxGuy]

That a boy...only way anyone around here is going to take you serious is if your post smacks of smarmy and sarcasm.

Just trying to speak in the only language he seems to understand.

[ScottM]

This is a no brainer: [url=http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/266586/]Board member Mike Haugen of Fargo argued for directing UND to begin retiring the nickname (Typical Bison Fan)

"Typical Bison Fan"? So, Mr. Haugen has crossed-eyes, Copenhagen dripping out from his mouth, an overabundance of ear wax and smells of manure?

[darell1976]

"Typical Bison Fan"? So, Mr. Haugen has crossed-eyes, Copenhagen dripping out from his mouth, an overabundance of ear wax and smells of manure?

[Goon]

Just trying to speak in the only language he seems to understand.

You might try using baby talk for him.

[siouxweet]

anyone hear roebuck last night on the coach's show he said something to the effect that he is a big nickname supporter and if that if the conference doesn't want the fighting sioux nickname he doesn't want to be in it. maybe he should tell that bafoon of an AD we have.

[The Sicatoka]

Why haven't we heard Faison or Kelley come out and publicly state their position and plan?

Why hasn't the media, or "select alumni" cornered them and forced them to man-up and state a position?

It's time for Faison and Kelley to state a position and a case.

I know someone who let their position be known.

And this person would benefit, or so we've been told, if UND dropped the name to get into the Summit.

This person is UND WBB Coach Gene Roebuck.

Listen to this (starting 31 minutes and 20 seconds in): http://www.fightingsioux.com/newMediaPlaye...;CLIP_ID=678456

"I would not want to give up the name to be in a conference. ... I'm not gonna sell my soul." -- Gene Roebuck

Gene's manned-up, stood up, and given his view.

What about his bosses.

Lead from the front boys.

I suggest you ask them these questions directly:

rokelley@mail.und.edu

brianfaison@mail.und.edu

[The Sicatoka]

And now I read this and it seems that Kelley and Faison are willing to, borrowing Roebuck's phrase, "sell (a) soul".

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/148493/

[82SiouxGuy]

Why haven't we heard Faison or Kelley come out and publicly state their position and plan?

Why hasn't the media, or "select alumni" cornered them and forced them to man-up and state a position?

It's time for Faison and Kelley to state a position and a case.

I know someone who let their position be known.

And this person would benefit, or so we've been told, if UND dropped the name to get into the Summit.

This person is UND WBB Coach Gene Roebuck.

Listen to this (starting 31 minutes and 20 seconds in): http://www.fightingsioux.com/newMediaPlaye...;CLIP_ID=678456

"I would not want to give up the name to be in a conference. ... I'm not gonna sell my soul." -- Gene Roebuck

Gene's manned-up, stood up, and given his view.

What about his bosses.

Lead from the front boys.

Roebuck doesn't have to pay the bills. Kelley and Faison are responsible for the financial stability and viability of the University of North Dakota and the Athletic Department. The major advantage of getting into a conference is money. Lower travel costs. Better crowds for familiar foes. Money from the Men's Basketball Tournament. Other advantages include getting something more for the athletes to compete for, which should make recruiting easier, etc.

Keeping the nickname is still a real long shot even if the SBoHE would let the issue go until the deadline in November. Nothing seems to be happening in Standing Rock, and this is an issue that should take several months at a minimum to arrange and hold a referendum if the Tribal Council would allow it. If something positive would happen at Standing Rock during the next 30 days there might be a chance to let it play out. But if nothing happens by then, this might be the end.

TSic, follow your own advice. Follow the money. The financial stability of the Athletic Department will be tough to maintain without a conference. That is more important to the powers that be than a nickname that is probably on borrowed time anyway.

[GeauxSioux]

But what if the board meets again and the Supreme Court hasn

[The Sicatoka]

TSic, follow your own advice. Follow the money. The financial stability of the Athletic Department will be tough to maintain without a conference. That is more important to the powers that be than a nickname that is probably on borrowed time anyway.

So, if that's the case, ...

Faison and Kelley need to step up, man up, and state the case.

The silence from them is deafening and has gone on long enough.

[Dak]

One of those presidents is Dick Hanson from North Dakota State University who told the Herald that he

[Cat in SoDak]

TSic, follow your own advice. Follow the money. The financial stability of the Athletic Department will be tough to maintain without a conference. That is more important to the powers that be than a nickname that is probably on borrowed time anyway.

Following the money at UND leads to the men's hockey and football programs, neither of which would be members of the Summit League.

Seems to me the "powers that be", who happen to be nickname opponents, are using a self made Summit League "crisis" to ram through a decision that the majority of fans and alumni do not want. Kinda sounds like the "once we pass a health care bill, people will learn to like it" argument in the news these days.

If letting the process play out over the course of 2010 and possibly delaying a conference schedule by one year would be devasting to the UND athletic department, then the Summit League isn't going to save it.

[The Sicatoka]

One of those presidents is Dick Hanson from North Dakota State University who told the Herald that he

[RD17]

So, if that's the case, ...

Faison and Kelley need to step up, man up, and state the case.

The silence from them is deafening and has gone on long enough.

100% agree.

Problem is that it has become obvious by their inaction that both would prefer the nickname to be gone, but they don't want to say anything publicly because they fear the backlash. Much easier to just hide behind the SBOHE and let them do the dirty work. Not what I would call great leadership.

[82SiouxGuy]

Following the money at UND leads to the men's hockey and football programs, neither of which would be members of the Summit League.

Seems to me the "powers that be", who happen to be nickname opponents, are using a self made Summit League "crisis" to ram through a decision that the majority of fans and alumni do not want. Kinda sounds like the "once we pass a health care bill, people will learn to like it" argument in the news these days.

If letting the process play out over the course of 2010 and possibly delaying a conference schedule by one year would be devasting to the UND athletic department, then the Summit League isn't going to save it.

The hockey and football teams are not affected by getting into or not getting into the Summit. The rest of the program would be affected. That's where the money comes in, not getting the rest of the department into an auto bid conference is worth a lot of money. Pushing back entry 1 year would not be a deal breaker. But risking not getting in on this round of expansion is an irresponsible financial maneuver. If the Summit would guarantee entry in 1 year, then it would be fine to risk that 1 year of revenue and added expense. All indications are that they are not willing to even discuss that option. It's their league and we want to play in it so we have to play by their rules. It is not a wise move for the taxpayers of North Dakota to risk many years of those losses, especially since the odds of keeping the name are so slim.

I sincerely doubt that Faison and Kelley have any opposition to the Fighting Sioux nickname. They entered this situation when the fate was decided. Their job is to make the best of this situation for the University of North Dakota. The nickname has been on life support for more than a year, pretty much since the court settlement was signed. There were signs of life when Spirit Lake passed the referendum. But there has never been any kind of clear signal from Standing Rock that they would allow the name to pass. A smart business person would never risk millions of dollars on the odds we currently have that Standing Rock will get something done by November.

There is no longer a "keep the nickname at all costs" attitude with the majority of UND fans, much less residents of the state. The majority of people I talk to love the nickname but are tired of the issue. They just want it to be decided and want the issue to go away. There will be a segment of diehard fans that want the name and logo to stay forever no matter what, and some of them will go to their graves feeling that way. But the majority of the population will adjust to what ever is decided. The University and the State Board of Higher Education will make a decision that they are tasked with making, and they will make their decision based on what is best for the entire University in the long run. Not best for the UND hockey team, or football team or women's basketball team, but what is best for the entire University.

[rochsioux]

Most involved are playing the "who takes the blame" game. Some are playing it better than others.

There are five players/groups involved here:

1. NC$$

This is the one player that has declared that the nickname should be gone and is proud of it. In some small way I can respect this much more than the position of the other players. This is the only player that doesn't care if they take the blame, in fact they are proud of it.

2. Kelley / Faison

Has anyone ever heard of the slightest support for the nickname from either of them ?

They want the nickname gone but haven't had the guts to say so. They want to leave it up to the State Board to retire the name and then claim they had no say. At best, a lack of comment either way implies poor leadership to me.

3. State Board

Keeps placing artificial deadlines for tribal action then ignores the deadlines when nothing happens.

4. Charles Murphy

When elected as tribal council chairman many assumed he had a favorable response to the nickname, ignoring past comments he made a number of years ago which left no doubt where he stood at the time. Could he have shifted position ? Yes. Could he have just left the impression during the tribal chairman campaign that he would take favorable action to help keep the nickname just to help his election chances ? Certainly possible. I don't know but there seems to be little action on his part. Hopefully there will be good news soon as that is the only way the nickname has a chance.

5. Tom Douple

Claims the Summit League is not involved in this issue but then says the nickname issue must be resolved before the Summit will consider UND for membership. This, in spite of the fact that UND could not begin play until the 2011-2012 season and the issue will be resolved before the end of 2010 per the court settlement. All he would really need is a signed agreement with UND that the issue will indeed be resolved by then, maybe add a multi-million dollar penalty clause if it is not. IMO, there is an appearance of collusion with the NC$$, this just doesn't pass the smell test to me (maybe I just have a cold). If there are valid reasons why the Summit League will not consider UND right now, why won't he return reporters calls ? Why not give an interview and explain why it is important to the Summit to have this issue resolved prior to considering UND for membership ? Explain why it is important even though there is a court agreement that will have the issue resolved prior to any possible league play. Whether Douple likes it or not, he has interjected himself into this issue and he and the Summit League will take a share of the blame from nickname supporters which will carry into future Summit League play.

I believe Charles Murphy is the smartest guy in this game. All he has to do is say the tribal council has other pressing matters and will get to the nickname issue on their own time schedule. He knows that Kelly/Faison/State Board are worried about getting into the Summit League and will very likely capitulate much sooner than the 11/30/2010 deadline. Therefore very few will blame the Standing Rock tribe when the nickname goes regardless of their position. Excellent strategy for the SR tribal council, much better than having the tribal chair (RHHT) in the news constantly saying they are against the name and will never approve.

Let this play out till the 11/30 deadline. I seriously doubt that in puts UND in danger of missing out on membership to the Summit League. At most in delays UND an additional year prior to starting league play. Will that cost $$$ ? Probably, but so will terminating the nickname. By the end of November if there is no agreement with SR then the nickname will be gone, the Summit League will accept us for membership, and the State Board, Kelley, Faison, and the NC$$ will all be happy campers.

The Spirit Lake supporters who filed the lawsuit against the State Board might want to look at sueing the NC$$ for the way they are treating their tribe vs. other tribes in this nickname fight. The NC$$ has stated they have to respect tribal wishes when it comes to keeping the nickname, however, no other school has been required to have multiple tribes approve, only UND. Have no idea if there is any legal ground for a lawsuit on this but who knows.

[82SiouxGuy]

So, if that's the case, ...

Faison and Kelley need to step up, man up, and state the case.

The silence from them is deafening and has gone on long enough.

Faison and Kelley did make their case at the SBoHE meeting. This is from the Herald article.

The State Board of Higher Education voted 5-3 on Thursday to not take action on the nickname until its next monthly meeting, despite testimony from university officials that further delays will hurt UND and cost it more money.

Many Summit League universities are closer to home, easing the pressure of rising travel costs, UND President Robert Kelley and Athletic Director Brian Faison told the board. UND fans are also more fired up by competition with league teams, improving revenue from attendance and television broadcasts, they said.

The Summit League has been adamant that it would not consider UND

[The Sicatoka]

What would you like him to do, hire a skywriter?

For both Kelley and Faison: Step up to the podeum in 300 Twamley in front of media from around the state and lay out specifically, knowing it's going onto the local evening news, the issues and concerns and his position. Costs, benefits; pros, cons; and how they arrived at their position based on those.

[The Sicatoka]

At most in delays UND an additional year prior to starting league play. Will that cost $$$ ? Probably, but so will terminating the nickname.

No one has ever stated the costs of changing the moniker.

And don't tell me some cost evaluations and estimates haven't been completed.

I'm (as an alumnus and taxpayer) getting that bill if it comes. How much?

The Spirit Lake supporters who filed the lawsuit against the State Board might want to look at sueing the NC$$ for the way they are treating their tribe vs. other tribes in this nickname fight. The NC$$ has stated they have to respect tribal wishes when it comes to keeping the nickname, however, no other school has been required to have multiple tribes approve, only UND. Have no idea if there is any legal ground for a lawsuit on this but who knows.

In my opinion, Spirit Lake should be sueing not the SBoHE, but the NCAA.

The NCAA is not treating them equally as only one of five Chippewa tribes in Michigan (the closest) had to approve Central Michigan, and only one Florida Seminole tribe (there is only one) had to approve Florida State.

So why don't they as one approving, and the closest at that, tribe count in North Dakota?

Does the NCAA not believe Spirit Lake to be as worthy as the one Michigan Chippewa tribe or the Florida Seminole Nation?

Spirit Lake should flex that "tribal sovereignty" muscle. What right does the NCAA have to tell a sovereign nation that it can't allow a university to use its tribal name? And what right does one sovereign Sioux nation to have to tell another what it can or can't do? And how in the world does a State of ND/NCAA agreement bind a soverign nation, that wasn't a party to the settlement, from making its own decisions?

[MplsBison]

For both Kelley and Faison: Step up to the podeum in 300 Twamley in front of media from around the state and lay out specifically, knowing it's going onto the local evening news, the issues and concerns and his position. Costs, benefits; pros, cons; and how they arrived at their position based on those.

Why? Just so they can get eggs and tomatoes thrown at them by a bunch of maniac UND hockey fans who don't care about any other team at UND?

That's what you want to happen, anyway.

[MplsBison]

Why would Hanson need to state this explicitly?

Surely his predecessor served willingly and actively as an "ambassador for UND" for the good of the ND University System.

I mean there's no trackrecord of the predecessor of Hanson at NDSU acting untoward, fiscally or personally, in any forum or manner.

Hanson should have left that as understood, unsaid; unless it needed to be clarified and said.

The future is a strong partnership between NDSU and UND.

Get on board or get the he** out!

[The Sicatoka]

The future is a strong partnership between NDSU and UND.

Get on board or get the he** out!

I agree. And that seems to be the SBoHE's new direction.

But the only guy I've seen get out recently is Hanson's predecessor.

[The Sicatoka]

Why? Just so they can get eggs and tomatoes thrown at them by a bunch of maniac UND hockey fans who don't care about any other team at UND?

No. They need to quit playing games and lead from the front.

They'll probably find out that the vast majority of fans just want this resolved and want someone to step up and finish it.

Additional Note: There's a vocal group that doesn't like how Alerus Center is run. They didn't show up for a recent open meeting to discuss the issues and problems and come up with ideas to make it better. But they love to make noise anonymously on the internet about the Alerus Center. I honestly believe the most vocal supporter of the Sioux name won't show up either, but will continue to anonymously make noise.

[The Sicatoka]

My main concern: There has been almost no effort by UND or the SBoHE to convey any message to alums, Sioux boosters, students and the public at large.

Sure, Faison has made statements from time to time about the importance of UND getting into the Summit, but nobody from UND has ever said something like: "Therefore, it is the official position of the University of North Dakota that the Fighting Sioux nickname be retired as soon as possible to assist with the transition to Division I."

Furthermore, neither Faison nor Kelley has ever bothered to explain what they know about the Summit's position in relation to the nickname issue. They have to know something. What has Douple told them? Is there a deadline? When? Why that date? Why not November 2010? What do they understand it to mean when Douple says the nickname issue must be "resolved"? Do all Summit members feel that way or is it just Douple talking out of his tail-feathers? It'd be nice to know some information and context.

Surely, behind the scenes, Kelley and Faison are conveying much (if not all) of this type of information to Goetz and the SBoHE. And I don't believe that Kelley and Faison would sit around waiting for the board to decide what it wants to do. For the first time, it became clear yesterday that they are pushing the board in a particular direction. It's about time that they publicly do something, anything.

But there are still many unanswered questions that people have a right to know.

State the case; make the case.