MplsBison Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 So when did you become a board member of the Summit League or a person in the know? I'm not either of those things. The writing is on the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Nov 30th is too late. At best you've got until Q1CY2010 or the Summit will move on, without UND. UND administration and the ND SBoHE will not let this happen. I want proof of this...meaning a link!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I want proof of this...meaning a link!!!! You will never see the LINK, I can lay odds on it. MPLSBISONFAN is just pontificating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I'm not either of those things. The writing is on the wall. You have no idea what you're talking about ZIPPY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I'm not either of those things. The writing is on the wall. Now you're seeing writing on the wall? Are you taking the proper medication. And I want to see a link showing the exact application deadline and the list of other schools that will be chosen instead of UND if UND doesn't meet the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 They (judges) should be able to interpret laws as they are currently written in order to make a ruling on a case. They should not be able to rule if a law is valid or not just because someone brings up a case. Laws need to be reviewed for validity when they are created...not post-creation in the court system. Thus, as I said, the correct method would have been for the SL group to seek an amendment to the current law in order to limit the power of the SBoHE. Again, get yourself a copy of "The Idiot's Guide to American Government" and do some reading. This is how our system is set up. We're sorry we don't live in your world where everyone lives by your rules, but this is the United States of America. In the USA the only time a court can rule on a law is when a case is brought to the court involving that law. The courts are not proactive. They don't review laws for validity just to have something to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I want proof of this...meaning a link!!!! Here's a link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 You will never see the LINK, I can lay odds on it. MPLSBISONFAN is just pontificating. This is true. There is no link because it's my conjecture. I think it's correct, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Now you're seeing writing on the wall? Are you taking the proper medication. And I want to see a link showing the exact application deadline and the list of other schools that will be chosen instead of UND if UND doesn't meet the deadline. There is no link. There are plenty of schools that are inferior choices to UND but that the Summit would live with. Utah Valley and Chicago State come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Again, get yourself a copy of "The Idiot's Guide to American Government" and do some reading. This is how our system is set up. We're sorry we don't live in your world where everyone lives by your rules, but this is the United States of America. In the USA the only time a court can rule on a law is when a case is brought to the court involving that law. The courts are not proactive. They don't review laws for validity just to have something to do. The court ruling on a case via interpreting the law is not the issue. The issue is the court effectively changing the contents of the law via their ruling outside of the law's written content. This should be forbidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knickball2 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Why is he still in here, you know he was banned from Bisonville for I suspect the same sort of postings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knickball2 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Who gives a rat's a..... about the summit league, no one that I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Who gives a rat's a..... about the summit league, no one that I know. Many...people give a rat's a-- about finding a conference for the other sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlsiouxfan Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I do and so do the fans of nearly every other program on campus except for the hockey program. The longer it takes for this nickname issue to get resolved the more it hurts our chances of being accepted to the Summit League. If this thing is still an issue in late January, early February it will probably result in the Summit choosing another member (probably Denver) and leaving us out in the cold. If this happens it will essentially de-rail our Division I move and will be death sentence for every other athletic team on campus other than men's and women's hockey. If the powers that be allow this to happen in order to appease some hockey nuts who are bigger fans of a logo than the actual athletic teams then I for one will never give another red cent to this university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Who gives a rat's a..... about the summit league, no one that I know. If you have an interest in UND sports beyond football and hockey, you might want to care about the Summit League. It is by far the best option currently available, and one of the few options probably available in the next several years as a home for the majority of athletic teams from UND. The UND athletic department, the UND administration, coaches, players and fans of the basketball, baseball, golf, track, soccer, softball, volleyball and other teams will tell you that they need a real conference home. The Great West is a nice temporary place to play. But it is not a good long term solution. The Summit provides that. It will save the Athletic Department a lot of time, trouble and especially money if they can get become a member of the Summit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I do and so do the fans of nearly every other program on campus except for the hockey program. The longer it takes for this nickname issue to get resolved the more it hurts our chances of being accepted to the Summit League. If this thing is still an issue in late January, early February it will probably result in the Summit choosing another member (probably Denver) and leaving us out in the cold. If this happens it will essentially de-rail our Division I move and will be death sentence for every other athletic team on campus other than men's and women's hockey. If the powers that be allow this to happen in order to appease some hockey nuts who are bigger fans of a logo than the actual athletic teams then I for one will never give another red cent to this university. Thank you. It's nice to see there are some UND fans who, while perhaps still saddened at the potential loss of the nickname, have the guts to approach the issue with something more than an appeal to emotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I don't understand the Summit League's insistance on the nickname being "resolved" prior to considering UND for membership as it will certainly be resolved prior to any league play. I don't think the Summit League or UND is considering the ramifications of getting rid the of nickname and logo without allowing the process to play itself out. The agreement with the NC$$ gives UND until 11/30/2010 to gain approval. If UND caves in prior to that date and uses "Summit League membership" as the reason it will only increase the resentment from a large portion of SIoux fans. The Summit League does nothing for the hockey or football programs and like it or not, these have by far the largest following of Sioux fans. I predict if this happens that it will only further harden a large group of Sioux fans that will never accept a new nickname/logo and will continue to wear their Sioux stuff. You do not make a monumental change like this by forcing it down peoples throats and expect them to accept it. You have to let the process play out and give Standing Rock as much time as needed up to the 11/30/2010 deadline. It will be difficult enough for people to accept a new nickname but damn near impossible if you don't let this play out. If the goal of the Summit League was to avoid controversy with regard to the nickname they are idiots. If they would accept UND with a stipulation that the nickname is resolved per the NCAA agreement by YE2010 they would be covered. By sticking their nose in this issue they will only increase the controversy which will carry over into the league. They are actually creating a problem where one wouldn't exist and they will share part of the blame and resentment if UND drops the Fighting Sioux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlsiouxfan Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Contrary to popular belief the Summit League has other options and doesn't need us in their conference. They have all the leverage and could really care less about what effects getting rid of the nickname before the 2010 deadline will have on our university. Die-hard nickname proponents need to accept this fact. No one at the NCAA or the Summit League really gives a rats ass about the Sioux nickname. They would just as soon have it gone and unfortunately they have all the leverage in this situation. If you choose to punish UND when the nickname finally does go it will only hurt UND and will have no impact whatsoever on the people who actually brought about the death of the Sioux nickname. If UND clings desperately to the nickname then the NCAA and the Summitt League will punish the school for this stance and university will suffer tremendous losses while the NCAA and the Summit will be largely unimpacted by our decisions. They got all the cards and it's time for us to move on, drop the nickname, and focus on building the UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA as the school and it's athletic teams are far more important than the nickname will ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Contrary to popular belief the Summit League has other options and doesn't need us in their conference. They have all the leverage and could really care less about what effects getting rid of the nickname before the 2010 deadline will have on our university. Die-hard nickname proponents need to accept this fact. No one at the NCAA or the Summit League really gives a rats ass about the Sioux nickname. They would just as soon have it gone and unfortunately they have all the leverage in this situation. If you choose to punish UND when the nickname finally does go it will only hurt UND and will have no impact whatsoever on the people who actually brought about the death of the Sioux nickname. If UND clings desperately to the nickname then the NCAA and the Summitt League will punish the school for this stance and university will suffer tremendous losses while the NCAA and the Summit will be largely unimpacted by our decisions. They got all the cards and it's time for us to move on, drop the nickname, and focus on building the UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA as the school and it's athletic teams are far more important than the nickname will ever be. If the Summit League doesn't care about the Sioux nickname then why not review UND's application ? They know it will be resolved in the next 12 months one way or another. The answer is 1) they don't want UND anyway or 2) They don't have the ability to read the surrender agreement that UND made with the NC$$ or 3) there is some type of collusion between the league and the NC$$. By not accepting UND's application right now they are sticking their nose into the process. They will be directly responsible if UND drops the name in the next few months. By trying to avoid the "controversy" of the nickname they will in fact, be generating far more controversy directly involving the dropping of the nickname. Not sure I would really want to part of a league that is run by people with so little common sense. If they want to avoid any controversy then they should accept the application now and go through the review process. IMO, the Summit League has UND at the top of the list of schools they would like to add. Do they have to add them ? Of course not. IMO, it is not worth thowing away the nickname so the Summit League will accept our application. If the Summit League doesn't need us then what is the guarantee that UND will be accepted anyway ? If there is no guarantee then why drop the nickname just so they will be so kind as to review our application ? For those that are urging UND to panic and throw away the nickname today what will you do if Standing Rock approves, UND keeps the nickname, and they join the Summit League. Will you continue to proudly wear the Sioux logo to games when you were so desperate to throw it away ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlsiouxfan Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 If the Summit League doesn't care about the Sioux nickname then why not review UND's application ? They know it will be resolved in the next 12 months one way or another. The answer is 1) they don't want UND anyway or 2) They don't have the ability to read the surrender agreement that UND made with the NC$$ or 3) there is some type of collusion between the league and the NC$$. By not accepting UND's application right now they are sticking their nose into the process. They will be directly responsible if UND drops the name in the next few months. By trying to avoid the "controversy" of the nickname they will in fact, be generating far more controversy directly involving the dropping of the nickname. Not sure I would really want to part of a league that is run by people with so little common sense. If they want to avoid any controversy then they should accept the application now and go through the review process. IMO, the Summit League has UND at the top of the list of schools they would like to add. Do they have to add them ? Of course not. IMO, it is not worth thowing away the nickname so the Summit League will accept our application. If the Summit League doesn't need us then what is the guarantee that UND will be accepted anyway ? If there is no guarantee then why drop the nickname just so they will be so kind as to review our application ? For those that are urging UND to panic and throw away the nickname today what will you do if Standing Rock approves, UND keeps the nickname, and they join the Summit League. Will you continue to proudly wear the Sioux logo to games when you were so desperate to throw it away ? Being a transitional Division I, we are at the mercy of conferences like the Summit. If we want to join it will be on their terms because they hold all the cards and they know the death sentence that life as a Division I independent is for a university. That being said the Summit wants the nickname resolved by early 2010 to meet their expansion timeline. They would prefer to have UND but if we refuse to address our issues in order to meet their timeline they will pick someone else and we'll be on the outside looking in. In all honesty, their only concern is adding a strong 12th member who they can add according to their timeline and fits their existing footprint. They don't care about the Sioux nickname other than they would not like it to have it as an issue or more likely would prefer to have it gone forever. Criticize their policy but the fact is they have us by the balls because they will get along just as well without us. I wish this could somehow get resolved with us keeping the nickname but I truly believe that this fight is a lost cause because one way or another the NCAA will get their pound of flesh that is the Sioux nickname. It's a reality that we need to accept. I'll still wear Sioux gear after the name changes but would also most likely wear gear with the new logo on it as well because I'm a fan of the university and it's athletic teams whatever they may be called. I hope I answered your questions, but I would like Sioux nickname supporters to answer a few for me. What do you realistically see as a future conference possibility for the rest of our athletic teams if UND misses out on Summit expansion due to the nickname? What negative repercussions are you willing to accept to keep the Sioux nickname? Losing athletic teams in everything but hockey? No longer playing MN and WI in hockey when Big 10 hockey starts up? An athletic department with serious deficits created by pathetic interest in any program other than hockey? What price is too high a price to pay for logo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 What do you realistically see as a future conference possibility for the rest of our athletic teams if UND misses out on Summit expansion due to the nickname? Currently, I see only two possible conferences - Summit and Big Sky. Of these two the Summit is more likely. That doesn't mean it won't look different in a year or two. I believe we will be accepted to the Summit as soon as the nickname issue is settled, regardless if that is today, next month, six months from now or on 11/30/2010. At most it may delay league play for another year. What negative repercussions are you willing to accept to keep the Sioux nickname? Losing athletic teams in everything but hockey? No longer playing MN and WI in hockey when Big 10 hockey starts up? An athletic department with serious deficits created by pathetic interest in any program other than hockey? What price is too high a price to pay for logo? If UND keeps the nickname by getting tribal approval most, if not all schools, will schedule us as the nickname will have the blessing of the NC$$. I don't see any real negative repercussions today if they keep the name with the NC$$ blessing. If something changes in the future then it would have to be addressed at that point. If the Summit League doesn't care about our nickname issue then why do they use that as the reason not to review the application ? Obviously, there is something behind this. I have yet to hear a good reason. The real answer to this question will reveal a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Being a transitional Division I, we are at the mercy of conferences like the Summit. If we want to join it will be on their terms because they hold all the cards and they know the death sentence that life as a Division I independent is for a university. That being said the Summit wants the nickname resolved by early 2010 to meet their expansion timeline. They would prefer to have UND but if we refuse to address our issues in order to meet their timeline they will pick someone else and we'll be on the outside looking in. In all honesty, their only concern is adding a strong 12th member who they can add according to their timeline and fits their existing footprint. They don't care about the Sioux nickname other than they would not like it to have it as an issue or more likely would prefer to have it gone forever. Criticize their policy but the fact is they have us by the balls because they will get along just as well without us. I wish this could somehow get resolved with us keeping the nickname but I truly believe that this fight is a lost cause because one way or another the NCAA will get their pound of flesh that is the Sioux nickname. It's a reality that we need to accept. I'll still wear Sioux gear after the name changes but would also most likely wear gear with the new logo on it as well because I'm a fan of the university and it's athletic teams whatever they may be called. I hope I answered your questions, but I would like Sioux nickname supporters to answer a few for me. What do you realistically see as a future conference possibility for the rest of our athletic teams if UND misses out on Summit expansion due to the nickname? What negative repercussions are you willing to accept to keep the Sioux nickname? Losing athletic teams in everything but hockey? No longer playing MN and WI in hockey when Big 10 hockey starts up? An athletic department with serious deficits created by pathetic interest in any program other than hockey? What price is too high a price to pay for logo? You presume that there are not going to be negative repercussions by simply caving in right now. If you want to see an athletic department with serious deficits, stay tuned if the nickname goes in the next month. If you think revenue negative programs are suffering now, stay tuned if the nickname goes in the next month. If the SBoHE really lacks the discernment capacity to figure out that simply dropping the nickname without allowing the process to take place, as per the agreement, UND is SOL both ways. RochSioux is exactly right. If the SBoHE thinks that 98% of the fan base and alumni are just going to get the nickname issue crammed down their throats and be told to "just deal with it" and that there will not be lingering bitter feelings for decades (which will result in a ton less $$$$ for ALL sports), then there may as well be a bunch of monkeys on that board. Everyone knows that this Summit business is just cover and it's all VERY transparent. If the SBoHE has any wisdom or political acumen at all, it will stick to the November, 2010 deadline. If the deadline comes and goes and the nickname goes with it, the transition will be MUCH less bitter. With the Tribal attorney coming out now and saying that the previous Tribal Council's action was/is unconstitutional and with the SBoHE knowing that the new council will abide a vote showing that the majority of the people support the nickname, does anyone in their right mind think the SBoHE will do anything other than follow the original deadline? I don't think so, personally. Like I've said before, anyone with a scintilla of sense would let the original deadline play out if one were truly concerned about negative consequences. If you anger die hard fans/alumni, you have no athletic department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 If the Summit League doesn't care about our nickname issue then why do they use that as the reason not to review the application ? Obviously, there is something behind this. I have yet to hear a good reason. The real answer to this question will reveal a great deal. The Summit League doesn't care about the nickname at all. They care about the nickname issue. They don't want to associate with a school that gets negative PR because of an issue, and a school that is fighting with the NCAA. If the NCAA said the nickname is good and all is forgotten, the Summit would take the application the next day. If the nickname gets changed and the NCAA says all is good, the Summit accepts the application. They don't want their league associated in any way with the problem that UND and the SBoHE are dealing with, not from a distance and not even temporarily. That is their choice, it is their ball and we only get to play with them if they say so. It will be interesting to see how the Tribal Attorney development changes things. It could open the way to get a referendum in a fairly short time frame. Or the process could remain in slow motion. In the latter case the SBoHE will make a decision, and unless the Summit agrees to modify their plans it would probably mean the end of the nickname. If UND is forced to change the nickname it is going to hurt no matter when the change is made. But I believe that enough people have accepted the possibility that it won't be as bad as some people predict. Even a lot of the most loyal nickname supporters will eventually accept it if a change is made. Most of us want to support the University no matter what they use for a nickname and logo, although most of us would really like to keep things the way they are if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 3 points: 1) I believe the Summit has already "quietly" reviewed UND's application and approving it will just be a formality...IF the nickname issue is resolved in a timely manner. If they took USD, then the writing is on the wall that UND would be approved. I believe the Summit wants to use the Dakota flagship public schools as an opportunity to build something special and less transient, in terms of membership. They want to compete with the MVC. 2) Why is everyone ignoring the SBoHE's 2nd requirement, that the tribes must agree to 30 year contracts? Obviously we haven't even got to that point yet because both tribes have not agreed to support the nickname in the first place. But I don't get the attitude here that "if only we cold just get a SR vote on the issue, we win". No, you don't. It means you finally made it half way. The other half would be the negotiation between the SR and SL and the state on the contractual deal to support the nickname. 3) Anyone who would not support UND just because of the nickname being retired is not a true UND fan, IMO. It's your right to be pissed off and bemoan the unfortunate situation. But why continue to punish your own university and the current/future players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 4. your a complete moron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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