Sioux-cia Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 When I first moved to North Dakota, I worked for Migrant Health for three summers. Because some people didn't know I was Mexican American ("You talk good for being Mexican", said the Norwegian who asked what I was.), they said things they normally wouldn't. I heard about the dirty, lazy Mexicans who came North in the summer. I would never be able to work 10-12 hours in a field hoeing weeds like they did. When I made home visits, the housing was usually in poor repair but ALWAYS it was clean. The children were well taken care of, clothes were usually hanging to dry after being washed out by hand and the people friendly after getting to know me. I learned that many had 'real' jobs in their home state, many were educated, more than a few were teachers. They worked the beet fields for the extra money it brought into the home. Many more were migrant workers who moved state to state to earn a living wage. Those were the 'lazy Mexicans' I met in North Dakota. My mother and her siblings quit school and were migrant workers for three years after my grand parents died. None of us off spring ever lived or knew that life. 85% or more of us have attended or graduated from college. Unfortunately, for some education isn't that important while going out and getting a job to help support the family is a higher priority. I know that if you were to look at the different generations the newer ones place more value on an education than the older ones. Those 'new' to the US very likely place bringing home a paycheck at a higher priority than education. But, that will change for them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 But, we don't have a mascot. Sure you do. Just like your major donor served as a Field Marshall in Nazi Germany, they're burning crosses in front of the houses of people who's religion they don't like, your homecoming parades feature pictures of skinned humans.... For the haters, there is no such thing as inaccuracy. They will happily tell you that the drawing of the logo is a "mascot". Trust me-we NEVER had a mascot. Chief was always described (officially) as a symbol of school spirit. The haters just ignored that. They decided he was a mascot; therefore he was a mascot. The haters hope that casual fans will lump the U of I and North Dakota in with the people who have guys running around with paper-mache heads shooting t-shirts into the crowd, riding ATV's around the stadium and mugging for cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSiouxFan Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I would never be able to work 10-12 hours in a field hoeing weeds like they did. Beet farmers also hired local High School kids to hoe weeds. I did it for two summers. It was great motivation for getting a degree. Who wants to hoe weeds for the rest of their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Committee. No committee. http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Committee. No committee. http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage Which is it? The translation, I think, is that he heard from the nickname advocates/alumni that progress is/was being made and that there is a lot of time to address this issue and that he should not simply hurry things along. I think there is progress being made. Hence the cries of institutional racism from the English Department, etc. to try and thwart any progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 ... Hence the cries ... to try and thwart any progress. "Hence the cries" indeed ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 For those of you who think there's even a remote chance .... http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...mp;section=news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 For those of you who think there's even a remote chance .... http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...mp;section=news Well, we have to at least nominate Goetz for an Oscar for "Best Actor". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7>5 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 OK who do you think will be on this committee. I am sure some tribal leaders will have a say. Which I think is crap, they want it both ways. Do not use our name, but let us tell you what we think it should be. If we change the name(I hope we don't) the NO tribal members should have a say. They should not even be allowed to participate at all in any way shape or form. Go Cavalry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 OK who do you think will be on this committee. I am sure some tribal leaders will have a say. Which I think is crap, they want it both ways. Do not use our name, but let us tell you what we think it should be. If we change the name(I hope we don't) the NO tribal members should have a say. They should not even be allowed to participate at all in any way shape or form. Go Cavalry! I think this is a bit extreme. I think the NA have a say.... provided they are currently enrolled at UND or are alumni of UND. Their say is put in this fashion: NA voter has = weight as to that of the White Middle Class Person. We're not dictators or non-democratic. However, after the nickname is gone, they are just another minority on campus and worthy of no special treatment outside of already planned or pre-existing services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7>5 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I think this is a bit extreme. I think the NA have a say.... provided they are currently enrolled at UND or are alumni of UND. Their say is put in this fashion: NA voter has = weight as to that of the White Middle Class Person. We're not dictators or non-democratic. However, after the nickname is gone, they are just another minority on campus and worthy of no special treatment outside of already planned or pre-existing services. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If ther are a student or alumni I have no problem. I am saying the Tribal counsels have no say. They should not even be invited to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 ... provided they are currently enrolled at UND or are alumni of UND. If ther are a student or alumni I have no problem. I hope it doesn't come down to a committee to choose a new nickname, because I see nothing wrong with your current nickname. However, what I will add is that in case push does come to shove, I would go heavy on alumni and light on current students. The more flippant an attitude some younger people will bring, the less time people will spend on committee work; and that could lead you to being stuck with one of those "Bananna Slug" nicknames simply because people won't have a lot of time to waste with clowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I hope it doesn't come down to a committee to choose a new nickname, because I see nothing wrong with your current nickname. However, what I will add is that in case push does come to shove, I would go heavy on alumni and light on current students. The more flippant an attitude some younger people will bring, the less time people will spend on committee work; and that could lead you to being stuck with one of those "Bananna Slug" nicknames simply because people won't have a lot of time to waste with clowns. Well the last time a college used a committee to change a nickname, it backfired BIG TIME. Marquette changed their name to just "Gold" or something like that. The students and alumni verbally fireballed the University and they changed the name again. I'd think the University of North Dakota would be smart enough to involve the students in more of a capacity than a student liaison or just the Student Senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Well, we have to at least nominate Goetz for an Oscar for "Best Actor". I don't think too many people ever bought into the act that he was actually trying to do anything to keep the name. As far as a new name, I just hope that the University doesn't rush it. Just give it time and let one naturally come about. The worst thing they could do is come up with as many variations of hawk/redhawk/riverhawk/warhawk they can think of and then have an online poll. The best old nicknames out there have come about unofficially in things such as student newspapers, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobIwabuchiFan Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I don't think too many people ever bought into the act that he was actually trying to do anything to keep the name. As far as a new name, I just hope that the University doesn't rush it. Just give it time and let one naturally come about. The worst thing they could do is come up with as many variations of hawk/redhawk/riverhawk/warhawk they can think of and then have an online poll. The best old nicknames out there have come about unofficially in things such as student newspapers, etc. I guess I have a problem with giving the current student government and the school newspaper a seat at the naming table as most of them are already trained to do what their adult counterparts did to the current nickname - flagellate and pontificate without action. BobIwabuchiFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Well the last time a college used a committee to change a nickname, it backfired BIG TIME. Marquette changed their name to just "Gold" or something like that. The students and alumni verbally fireballed the University and they changed the name again. IIRC, the committee here was the Marquette Board of Trustees. And there were at least two differences from your situation IMHO: they were changing from a nickname (Golden Eagles) that wasn't only unpopular with most (the replacement for the still-supported Warrior nickname) but even among those who don't hate it, the nickname failed to capture even mild interest. IOW, people either hated it or were apathetic about it-and the Board acknowledged this when they they tried to change it. The other difference IMHO was that their attempted nickname change was kind of a suprise: rather than your situation it was more of "well, lets change it and do it today". Two things that I do recall with great amusement: the Chairman of their board released a "its going to be Gold from now on, so deal with it" statement-and within about a week he was backpedaling just as fast as he possibly could. And someone on their board was the president of a Milwaukee PR firm and he/she predicted great success for the nickname. Soon after they were bombarded with bad publicity, the Board of Trustees announced an online poll of students and alums (specifically noting that any votes for "Warriors" would be disregarded) and among the unispired choices they threw in "Golden Eagles": the very nickname they previously said didn't generate enough support and needed to be changed. And today, they're known again as the Golden Eagles. And from what I've heard, at least once per game you'll hear the crowd chanting "Let's Go Warriors". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I don't think too many people ever bought into the act that he was actually trying to do anything to keep the name. As far as a new name, I just hope that the University doesn't rush it. Just give it time and let one naturally come about. The worst thing they could do is come up with as many variations of hawk/redhawk/riverhawk/warhawk they can think of and then have an online poll. The best old nicknames out there have come about unofficially in things such as student newspapers, etc. I guess I have a problem with giving the current student government and the school newspaper a seat at the naming table as most of them are already trained to do what their adult counterparts did to the current nickname - flagellate and pontificate without action. BobIwabuchiFan I didn't say give the student government or the school newspaper the right to choose the new name. I just said to give it time and let one surface on its own. That is how all of the best nicknames out there came about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 This whole thing is so ridiculous. Someone should have a backbone and indicate that their staying the "Fighting Sioux" and that's that. Personally, I think that the lawsuit should have gone forward, the good guys should have won, and the name stayed regardless of what the Executive Committee did next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 This whole thing is so ridiculous. Someone should have a backbone and indicate that their staying the "Fighting Sioux" and that's that. Personally, I think that the lawsuit should have gone forward, the good guys should have won, and the name stayed regardless of what the Executive Committee did next. can't do that really. The minority has already won this battle. The State has caved essentially. What UND SHOULD be doing right now is mobilizing the student populace into finding a new name and starting the fundraising for the renovation of all facilities to reflect whatever the nickname is changed to... or, if they decide to just take the NCAA sanctions, fund proper jerseys to be made in order to make it NCAA-compliant. In any case, I think the student body should suggest nicknames, then submit them to the Student Senate for review. They wheedle it down into a list of acceptable nicknames and take it to the alumni association and the University Senate. The Senate and Alumni Association will review the suggestions and approve or reject each nickname suggestion. Then, once the list of approved nicknames is down to 3 or 4, the list is sent back to the University community (students, alumni, faculty, staff, and admin) for votes. The University would then hold a vote within an appropriate time frame with the outcome assured as the nicknames on the ballot have all been deemed appropriate by all University parties (Students, Alumni, and University Administration/Faculty). Then the vote tallied, the nickname is announced and a logo design contest is held. If the new nickname is mascot worthy, the Student Senate can suggest ideas for one and how it would be implemented. Sure, in this system, there are going to be parties that will end up unhappy in each subgroup. However, the dichotomy already exists. If the dichotomy remains after a benign or harmless nickname is enacted, then the anti-nickname party looks ridiculous. In order to ensure as little of special interest gets into the fray, the announcement of the new nickname choices and the vote should be held very close together. There will be no University endorsed campaigns for any single nickname. Everyone gets ONE vote and ONE vote only. Faculty, Alumni, Student, whatever, the vote is even. So Ralph Englestad's vote (if he were still alive) would be worth as much as my vote as an alumni and as much as John UND Student's vote. No big money rewards. No political motivations within the vote. Then, once the nickname has been voted upon, it should be immediately ratified and an announcement should be made saying "That's the end of it. This issue is at an end. All further complaints and inquiries for or against the new nickname can be referred to the mailbox currently sitting at the bottom of the Coulee." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 This whole situation was prime for a fabulous First Amendment lawsuit: "How can anyone stifle the words a public university?" would have been the crux of the case. It would have been epic. Instead, like Mark Steyn in Canada, free speech lost again. The Canadian style human rights tribunals with their star chamber tactics can't be far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 The sad path we're on: http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/...5960246-sun.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 The sad path we're on: http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/...5960246-sun.php Now that is scary. Canada should man up and get rid of that lunacy. You're right in saying that this is exactly what the PCers in this country want badly. Canada is a great country and very beautiful and the people generally are very nice but I would never hold Canada up as an example of how we should do things here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Now that is scary. Canada should man up and get rid of that lunacy. You're right in saying that this is exactly what the PCers in this country want badly. Canada is a great country and very beautiful and the people generally are very nice but I would never hold Canada up as an example of how we should do things here. It is very scary. It is a slippery slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted June 29, 2008 Author Share Posted June 29, 2008 Good luck, Chuck Kupchella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 A bit off topic, but here's another example for those who think the PC zealots will be satisfied at some point. Like many others, our school has various levels to group contributors into for the purposes of getting better tickets, etc. Before, we had names for these levels like Chief, Brave and Tomahawk. But this year, we now have new PC names. Olympian, Champion and All-American. So not only do they own the words on the field, they own words like "Chief" and "Brave" anywhere else too. As noted, its a brave new world out there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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