Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Goon]

I'd like the real voice of the Sioux people to be heard. No pundits. No axes to grind.

Hold the on-reservation vote.

Let them vote their future.

That is what I would like to see as well...

[Goon]

Fargo Forum insults are intel as well...

A survey published this month in the Sociology of Sport Journal says American Indian students interviewed in 2000 overwhelmingly opposed the nickname and did not view it as honoring them.

Dana Williams, a UND alumnus and author of the study, said it

[ScottM]

Fargo Forum insults are intel as well...

[PCM]

The Forum has [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=186399

[Oxbow6]

The Forum has [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=186399

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Must read Patrick C. Miller article for Fighting Sioux Fans.

Nice to see someone get the word out as to how student athletes compete with pride and inspiration when they wear the Sioux crest.

http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/i...nspiration.html

Also some insightful and positive feedback in the message board regarding this article.

[LeftyZL]

The Forum has [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=186399

[PCM]

Must read Patrick C. Miller article for Fighting Sioux Fans.

Nice to see someone get the word out as to how student athletes compete with pride and inspiration when they wear the Sioux crest.

Thanks, but I think this USCHO opinion piece, although somewhat dated, goes straight to the heart of the Forum story.

[Hawkster]

No, that's not it at all. Williams' research is being presented in the news as if it's something new and different conducted by a man of science. There is nothing new about it, and Williams ability to conduct objective scientific research is clearly clouded by his personal involvement in the issue.

Obviously, you don't mind having your intelligence insulted. I do.

I highly respect the forthright manner that Dana Williams used to layout the problems of using the Sioux name. There was nothing insulting about the Williams article. The insults come from a clientele who insist on clinging to an outdated name.

Several weeks ago, I really felt like we were making progress as most posters here were openly accepting the retirement of the Sioux name and looking at acceptable replacements. It almost appears that we are starting to take a step or two backwards.

It's time to move forward. Nokota is a name I would find very pleasing.

[PCM]

It almost appears that we are starting to take a step or two backwards.

I have accepted that the Fighting Sioux nickname is probably gone. That doesn't mean that I suddenly accept the rationale of Dana Williams or any of the other nickname opponents. Their arguements are just as weak as they've always been. Fortunately for them, they've gained leverage against UND through the University of Minnesota. So it's not that they're suddenly making sense. It's that they've found an ally they didn't have before and they've succeeded in using it to turn the tide.

[The Sicatoka]

I highly respect the forthright manner that Dana Williams used to layout the problems of using the Sioux name. There was nothing insulting about the Williams article. The insults come from a clientele who insist on clinging to an outdated name.

Several weeks ago, I really felt like we were making progress as most posters here were openly accepting the retirement of the Sioux name and looking at acceptable replacements. It almost appears that we are starting to take a step or two backwards.

It's time to move forward. Nokota is a name I would find very pleasing.

Dear TRex,

Did you get permission from the British rock band to use their name? Did you get it in writing? Did they give it to you? Did you even ask? If not, you should stop. No, you must stop. Only that group can decide how their name should be used. You must stop. You must change. You are immoral if you do not. Their name is their name and you shouldn't use it for your personal entertainment.

(Hopefully you're a student of irony and satire. If not, that just flew over your head.)

[Hawkster]

Dear TRex,

Did you get permission from the British rock band to use their name? Did you get it in writing? Did they give it to you? Did you even ask? If not, you should stop. No, you must stop. Only that group can decide how their name should be used. You must stop. You must change. You are immoral if you do not. Their name is their name and you shouldn't use it for your personal entertainment.

(Hopefully you're a student of irony and satire. If not, that just flew over your head.)

I did, in fact get my name from that band. If they go public and tell me I'm offending them, YES, I would switch it. Nothing ironic about it. I'm against us using the Sioux name because the namesakes are opposed to it. Get it?

[The Sicatoka]

... the namesake leadership are opposed to it.

Clarified your post there.

Like I said before, I want the "band members" not their "managers" to tell me their opinion.

Let the tribe vote.

If they choose to disregard the wishes of the tribal leaders in the 1960s, so be it. I will learn who they are by their actions. And I will respond accordingly.

[sioux7>5]

I did, in fact get my name from that band. If they go public and tell me I'm offending them, YES, I would switch it. Nothing ironic about it. I'm against us using the Sioux name because the namesakes are opposed to it. Get it?

But they are not opposed to it, a few of the leaders are against it and they are making it a political stance and not listening to their citizens. The MAJORITY of Native Americans on the reservations are for the name, but their leaders are trying to make a name for themselves. Do you GET THAT!

[Sioux-cia]

At work, I spoke with a woman from a SD Sioux reservation. She was very upset. A friend of her's had someone come to her home the night before. The woman was asking for powdered eggs so she could feed her children. The friend gave the woman what she could. The woman in my office was angry, sad and crying. She said the tribal leaders had just voted themselves a $500. Christmas bonus, each. She said, "There are people who don't have food to eat and they give themselves a bonus. They don't deserve a bonus."

[82SiouxGuy]

I found this Op/ed piece from a couple of years ago in the New York Times. I don't know if it was posted here before or not, but I think it has some great information on how Florida State works with the Seminole tribe. It may be a blueprint for UND, although it may be too late to make it work. The piece was written by Jim Shore who was the general counsel for the Seminole Tribe at that time (I don't know if he still holds that position).

While the Seminole Tribe of Florida gets no financial compensation for the university's use of the Seminole name and related symbols, the richness of the relationship brings a variety of social and economic benefits to our tribe.

The university also reached out to the tribe in other ways. For years, Florida State University has invited Seminole Tribe high school students to visit its Tallahassee campus. The university organizes an annual summer trip to encourage young Seminoles to apply for admission. And the program is working. This fall, four new Seminole students will join four already enrolled there.

The school also uses printed materials and statewide television broadcasts to share with the public the history and culture of the Seminole Tribe so that our non-Indian neighbors have a better sense of who we are, where we came from and how deep our historical roots are in Florida.

The key seems to be working at a relationship that makes sense for both sides.

[sioux7>5]

I found this Op/ed piece from a couple of years ago in the New York Times. I don't know if it was posted here before or not, but I think it has some great information on how Florida State works with the Seminole tribe. It may be a blueprint for UND, although it may be too late to make it work. The piece was written by Jim Shore who was the general counsel for the Seminole Tribe at that time (I don't know if he still holds that position).

The key seems to be working at a relationship that makes sense for both sides.

WOW they have a grand total of 4 seminole students with 4 more coming, that is huge. What a joke. FSU is a much larger school then UND and they have 8 students that are of the namesake tribe. How many does UND have? Many more. That just goes to show, that the NCAA is more worried about money then anything

[82SiouxGuy]

WOW they have a grand total of 4 seminole students with 4 more coming, that is huge. What a joke. FSU is a much larger school then UND and they have 8 students that are of the namesake tribe. How many does UND have? Many more. That just goes to show, that the NCAA is more worried about money then anything

That was the fall of 2005 so we don't know the exact numbers for this semester. But I doubt that they have increased to anywhere near the number of Dakota, Lakota and Nakota students at UND.

[ScottM]

The key seems to be working at a relationship that makes sense for both sides.

Unfortunately, for us, the Florida Seminoles never exhibited the outright hostility to FSU that the NoDak tribes do to UND, and its name/logo. It's tough to be the only person at the negotiating table.

[The Sicatoka]

The woman was asking for powdered eggs so she could feed her children. .... the tribal leaders had just voted themselves a $500 Christmas bonus, each.

She said, "There are people who don't have food to eat and they give themselves a bonus."

That story seems more suited to coming from North Korea ....

Would that pretty much make a "Ron McNeil (aka His Horse Is Thunder)" equivalent to a Kim Jong-Il?

[Chewey]

But they are not opposed to it, a few of the leaders are against it and they are making it a political stance and not listening to their citizens. The MAJORITY of Native Americans on the reservations are for the name, but their leaders are trying to make a name for themselves. Do you GET THAT!

Corruption. Just another reason why the tribes/reservations should be done away with.

[82SiouxGuy]

Unfortunately, for us, the Florida Seminoles never exhibited the outright hostility to FSU that the NoDak tribes do to UND, and its name/logo. It's tough to be the only person at the negotiating table.

You are right about the current situation. But UND had a great relationship with the tribes 40 years ago. That's when Starcher went down to Standing Rock. Something happened to sour that relationship in North Dakota, it looks like they avoided that problem in Florida. My guess is that FSU worked on the relationship more than UND did. That is why I said that it may be too late for UND to follow the blueprint and make it work. But it is still worth trying.

[Fetch]

On tonights news was a story on Spirit Lakes Clinic

To bad UND can't help train & help them on management of all phases of Tribal Govt. - How can the cycle be broken (or fixed) money is not the only answer

[star2city]

You are right about the current situation. But UND had a great relationship with the tribes 40 years ago. That's when Starcher went down to Standing Rock. Something happened to sour that relationship in North Dakota, it looks like they avoided that problem in Florida. My guess is that FSU worked on the relationship more than UND did. That is why I said that it may be too late for UND to follow the blueprint and make it work. But it is still worth trying.

The ironic thing is, Standing Rock and other tribal leadership became indoctrinated by the victim mentality education many of them received at UND. Florida State never had any Indian programs to fill the Seminoles with propaganda.

Edit: Also should add that the poisoning political effects of tribal/mainstream rifts on South Dakota Sioux reservations in the last 40 years (i.e. Wounded Knee, Black Hills litigation, etc) have had to have much more of a spillover effect on Standing Rock than on Spirit Lake. By comparison, the current generation of Seminoles does not have such memories.

[Goon]

I highly respect the forthright manner that Dana Williams used to layout the problems of using the Sioux name. There was nothing insulting about the Williams article. The insults come from a clientele who insist on clinging to an outdated name.

Several weeks ago, I really felt like we were making progress as most posters here were openly accepting the retirement of the Sioux name and looking at acceptable replacements. It almost appears that we are starting to take a step or two backwards.

It's time to move forward. Nokota is a name I would find very pleasing.

Maybe your not getting it. What is dishonest is that Williams and the media is dishonestly trying to pass an article off as being objective social science when before the paper is written/presented the conclusion have already been made. That isn't science in my opinion nor is it value free sociology. That is social engineering. This so called scientific study is nothing more than jaming a leftist pc political view down our throats and that is not what soicology or social science was meant to be. The fact that person was presented as being objective is academically dishonest, the fact that no one challenged the news papers is also dishonest, in my opinion.

We not stupid just because we support the Fighting Sioux name. The minutes I saw this person name in the news paper I could tell you that research the Forum and Herald is trying to pass off as objective is a farce. I could tell you what the result was going to be before the paper was even written.