UND Football Attendance

[UND Fan]

oh man...UND has SPANKED the Ag College SO MUCH before they fled...no wonder they have a RAWHIDE!

(sing with me...)

TROLLING...TROLLING...TROLLING!

Those Bison keep on TROLLING!

While the SIOUX keep on PLAYING...

for SOMETHING!!

The Bison have no conference...

But WE have confidence..

WE'LL be...in FLORENCE and 'WAUKEE!!

head 'em up...move 'em out...move 'em out...head 'em up

they've got to get ready for NW Shreveport State!!    

We know they are lame...

and they're all quite insane...

Thinking their made-up conference is LEGIT!!

The Sioux will contend....

While the Bison will pretend...

Thanks but we'll take R-E-A-L-I-T-Y!!!!

head 'em up - move 'em out - move 'em out - head 'em up

head 'em up...RAW - WHINE!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Althouh I am one who dislikes all the smack that appears on this site (both by Bison and Sioux fans), I must admit this is quite unique! You must have a lot of time on your hands!

[The Sicatoka]

You missed another good number, namely "Not allocated by gender Revenue". NDSU had $1,221,504, while UND had $0. That definitely has an effect on the bottom line. (NDSU:$40,406 UND:$406,724)

That's the mystery-money in NDSU's budget. Where'd that come from? What is it? Were those institutional resources from another area of the NDSU budget transferred in to the athletic budget to cover up some of the what otherwise would have been million-plus dollar red ink?

What I saw in the CSL Report to NDSU (the economic study) is that NDSU's FY 02 athletic budget was about 1/3 from institutional support and (state) appropriated funds and about another 1/3 came from tickets and donations.

UND's (projected) FY 04 budget I found on-line showed 3/4 of the athletic budget coming from tickets and donations and $0 coming from institutional support and appropriated funds.

From those two sources it looks like the schools fund and operate athletics very differently. UND appears to try to be running athletics with self-generated revenues (tickets and donations) where NDSU has a significant budget fraction coming from funds (institutional support, state appropriated funds) that could have been used in other university departments.

[UND92,96]

It looks like everybody in the NCC except UND reported seven-figure gross "not allocated by gender" revenue, so I have no idea why UND is reporting differently from the other schools, or for that matter, exactly where this "not allocated by gender" revenue comes from.

One encouraging thing I noticed was that among all the NCC schools, plus NDSU, UNC and SDSU, UND had the second-lowest football deficit (MSU-Mankato's was $14,800 less. All of the schools had deficits). Since that time, I believe UND has entered into a more advantageous contract with the Alerus, which would seem to suggest that operating in the black for football could possibly be a realistic goal for UND, particularly if we could get average attendance up to about 10,000 or more. Operating in the black or anywhere close to it definitely isn't a realistic goal for most NCC schools. UNO, for example, was a whopping $933,900 in the red for football.

[bisonguy]

That's the mystery-money in NDSU's budget. Where'd that come from? What is it? Were those institutional resources from another area of the NDSU budget transferred in to the athletic budget to cover up some of the what otherwise would have been million-plus dollar red ink?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Team Makers funds have (up until the 2005-2006 season) been a general fund, not appropriated to any particular sport (some donations can now be specified for which sport). Throw in revenue for parking at Redhawks games and parking at the Fargodome, costs for training supplies (exactly how much tape and how many knee braces did the women's BB team use?, which team is paying for those new 45 lb plates or the new treadmill?), and I definitely can see the use of a "miscellaneous" column.

Guess it's two different methods of accounting, but I don't see how everything can fit neatly into each sport's line colummn. Seems too similiar to the schools that have revenue equal expenses.

[Smoggy]

Star2city may have more on this, but from what I'm hearing in Bunning's meetings with staff is that UND was about 200,000 in debt the past year. DI does not seem to be his main agenda or concern (getting in the black is), but he will probably set up a committee. It does seem like he wants to play the Bison again since Minnesota is really our only big rival. Big revenue can be had playing NDSU, but I can't see FB doing it due to playoff implications. The Bison would also help those attendance numbers.

It also wouldn't surprise me to see a big capital gains push for the athletic department.

[IowaBison]

Star2city may have more on this, but from what I'm hearing in Bunning's meetings with staff is that UND was about 200,000 in debt the past year.  DI does not seem to be his main agenda or concern (getting in the black is), but he will probably set up a committee.  It does seem like he wants to play the Bison again since Minnesota is really our only big rival.  Big revenue can be had playing NDSU, but I can't see FB doing it due to playoff implications.  The Bison would also help those attendance numbers.

It also wouldn't surprise me to see a big capital gains push for the athletic department.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the Bison will ever play in Grand Forks while the University is still DII. I could, however, see NDSU writing a very big check for games.

[star2city]

Star2city may have more on this, but from what I'm hearing in Bunning's meetings with staff is that UND was about 200,000 in debt the past year.  DI does not seem to be his main agenda or concern (getting in the black is), but he will probably set up a committee.  It does seem like he wants to play the Bison again since Minnesota is really our only big rival.  Big revenue can be had playing NDSU, but I can't see FB doing it due to playoff implications.  The Bison would also help those attendance numbers.

It also wouldn't surprise me to see a big capital gains push for the athletic department.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, I don't have contacts within the athletic department like you or UND FAN / RD17 / Sic or a number of other posters here have. (I am however, prone to make conjectures about what is going on based on different pieces of info. ) What you are hearing about DI makes sense, as serious talk about a move to DI is probably at least 18 months away (at least from a Big Sky perspective).

In the meantime, it would make sense to get the budget in shape, work on a relationship with NDSU (both departments would use more ticket revenue), and get the fundraising going for the indoor practice facility.

[UND Fan]

Star2city may have more on this, but from what I'm hearing in Bunning's meetings with staff is that UND was about 200,000 in debt the past year.  DI does not seem to be his main agenda or concern (getting in the black is), but he will probably set up a committee.  It does seem like he wants to play the Bison again since Minnesota is really our only big rival.  Big revenue can be had playing NDSU, but I can't see FB doing it due to playoff implications.  The Bison would also help those attendance numbers.

It also wouldn't surprise me to see a big capital gains push for the athletic department.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I hear, the conversations with the coaches (Buning has been meeting with each of them over the last 2-3 weeks) have gone quite well from the coaches' point of view. There is no question that getting the budget in line has to be the first priority - you can't even consider DI if we can't pay the bills in DII!

[NDSU grad]

appropriated funds.

From those two sources it looks like the schools fund and operate athletics very differently. UND appears to try to be running athletics with self-generated revenues (tickets and donations) where NDSU has a significant budget fraction coming from funds (institutional support, state appropriated funds) that could have been used in other university departments.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think state universities in North Dakota had any voice when it came to appropriating state money. In other words, if the state appropriated 500,000 for athletics, that money had to be used to fund athletics.

[The Sicatoka]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think state universities in North Dakota had any voice when it came to appropriating state money. In other words, if the state appropriated 500,000 for athletics, that money had to be used to fund athletics.

Assuming you're correct, where's the line item in UND's FY 04 (projected) revenues that says "appropriated funds"? Why is the legislature ear-marking funds for athletics for one university and not for them all? (PS - It was $713,000.)

[bisonguy]

Assuming you're correct, where's the line item in UND's FY 04 (projected) revenues that says "appropriated funds"? Why is the legislature ear-marking funds for athletics for one university and not for them all? (PS - It was $713,000.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously, UND receives appropriated money from the state for athletics. Remember the proposed bill that would have not allowed state funds for DI athletics, but it excluded sports that were DI prior to 2003? The monies just can't be identified in the proposed budget.

[EdtheFred]

whats the value of the tuition wavers being used?

[SiouxMeNow]

[bigmrg74]

actually...came up with this in 10 minutes powered by 5 Coors Lites AND I was watching the Daily Show at the same time...cracking on "those guys" doesn't take a lot of brain power...AGAIN, I ask...WHY would a (supposedly) BIG TIME DIVISION ONE (okay...just aa) TEAM be slumming on a DII board???           (My only guess is they're LONELY!!     )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, the Daily Show, I knew there was a reason why I like you SMN.

[BisonMav]

cracking on "those guys" doesn't take a lot of brain power...

[The Sicatoka]

whats the value of the tuition wavers being used?

Nine womens hockey scholarships at $10,000 to $12,000 per.

That ain't $713,000 of state appropriated funds. And it's not $996,000 of institutional support (those are funds completely at NDSU's control) either, like shows up in NDSU's FY02 budget (per CSL report).

As a matter of fact, UND's FY04 (projected revenues) budget showed $0 of institutional support and $0 of appropriated funds (and wouldn't state appropriated funds show up as such in there?).

It's been 30+ days since the end of FY 05 for athletics at UND and NDSU. Where are the numbers? I'd like to see, in NDSU's case, if Mr. Inniger raised the last $600,000 the Fargo Forum said he was short as of April 17.

[ESPNInsider]

So far all I have seen or heard lately is the "The Tradition Continues..." radio ads. With only 32 days to go until the first home game you would think that the ads would all be in full swing by now. But I have been doing so much traveling lately that I haven't spent more than a few days in GF at a time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to let you know, I was reading the online version of the FF today and when you go to sports there is a billboard across the top of the screen with "The Tradition Continues" theme. If you click on it it takes you to fightingsioux.com to the ticket info. Nice work!

[EdtheFred]

Im a little leery of using one year

[ESPNInsider]

Im a little leery of using one year

[EdtheFred]

Im sorry, but adding the personal comment is a little out of line. I will refrain from that sort of thing since the discussion has to do with athletic budgets at universities not personalities. Im sure Jim agrees.

Despite the dire warnings (and unsavory dispersions) Im reading from a few posters here the overall picture for NDSU athletics is very good. Our programs are in a new division, young, strong with lots of untapped revenue sources not available to us as a mature DII program. UND on the other hand has mature programs in Division II and hockey of course, all with little remaining untapped revenues.

Besides raising ticket prices, your best bet for revenue growth is to try and get some games in Fargo. I don

[Smoggy]

Nine womens hockey scholarships at $10,000 to $12,000 per.

That ain't $713,000 of state appropriated funds. And it's not $996,000 of institutional support (those are funds completely at NDSU's control) either, like shows up in NDSU's FY02 budget (per CSL report).

As a matter of fact, UND's FY04 (projected revenues) budget showed $0 of institutional support and $0 of appropriated funds (and wouldn't state appropriated funds show up as such in there?).

It's been 30+ days since the end of FY 05 for athletics at UND and NDSU. Where are the numbers? I'd like to see, in NDSU's case, if Mr. Inniger raised the last $600,000 the Fargo Forum said he was short as of April 17.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aren't tuition waivers illegal in the NCAA's eyes?

I also forgot to mention in my earlier post, that the REA LOST money last year. I don't really think that is true (due to World Juniors), though with now paying for and supporting the Betty it could be.

[bincitysioux]

Back to the subject of increasing football attendance, how about sending free subrscriptions of Sioux Illustrated to high school libraries in ND and NW MN? At only $15 per year, it wouldn't cost all that much to send it to 50 or so schools in the region, and could increase interest in Sioux Athletics.

[The Sicatoka]

EdtheFred: Then why not show the numbers. Where are they? I won't disagree that new revenues are coming in, but are they covering the new expenses? The DII Study is strong evidence that the answer is most likely "no". Show the numbers. Prove everyone wrong.

[dakotadan]

Back to the subject of increasing football attendance, how about sending free subrscriptions of Sioux Illustrated to high school libraries in ND and NW MN? At only $15 per year, it wouldn't cost all that much to send it to 50 or so schools in the region, and could increase interest in Sioux Athletics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a great idea. Actually, I am going to buy a subscription and have it sent to my old high school. It is a rather small school but there have been quite a few students who have came to UND from there in the last few years.

[ndsubison]

Back to the subject of increasing football attendance, how about sending free subrscriptions of Sioux Illustrated to high school libraries in ND and NW MN? At only $15 per year, it wouldn't cost all that much to send it to 50 or so schools in the region, and could increase interest in Sioux Athletics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

marketing 101: don't people have to be interested in something before they buy into it? Big fish, small pond: I see a parallel, do you?