DI vs DII (Horizon League)

[SiouxMD]

Anyone else find it enjoyable to watch two Bison posters argue over the Sioux?

[GCWaters]

Anyone else find it enjoyable to watch two Bison posters argue over the Sioux?

Just keeping it interesting for the crowds!!

[The Sicatoka]

Just keeping it interesting for the crowds!!

Coach Bohl should have had you out on the field for the first 55 minutes of NDSU's Homecoming game.

[GCWaters]

Coach Bohl should have had you out on the field for the first 55 minutes of NDSU's Homecoming game.

I probably would have been much more effective for the last minute of the UND/UNO game!

[SiouxMD]

I probably would have been much more effective for the last minute of the UND/UNO game!

Does that mean you can kick a 51-yard field goal? If so, do you have any eligibility left?

[tony]

You mean like Chapman stating "competition is good" after duplicating UND programs but then closing down UND-Fargo when "competition" was no longer in his interest?

Your claim that Chapman objected to UND-Fargo on the basis that UND was duplicating programs is flawed. In fact, UND is still duplicating those programs. He only objected when UND decided to establish a campus in Fargo. Moreover, Chapman did not shut down UND-Fargo, the Chancellor did. Duplicating programs is not the same thing as establishing a campus - I don't really think that is a point worth debating.

President Kupchella consistently objects to the actions of others on the basis that they are bad public policy. However, if his objections don't have any affect, he goes ahead and does the same things to which he just got done objecting. What excuse can he possibly use to implementing policy that he truly believes is a bad for the state? "Oh, I thought it was a bad idea when NDSU (or Valley City or Dickinson) did it, but since they did it, I guess UND will too. Yeah, it's bad for the state but I feel compelled to do this thing becaause [insert excuse here]." I don't think there is any string of words you can put between the brackets that will make President Kupchella look like anything but a posturing double-talker.

It's hard to debate without seeming angry, but there you have it. Believe me I get a kick of arguing stuff like this.

[GCWaters]

Does that mean you can kick a 51-yard field goal? If so, do you have any eligibility left?

Replying would compromise my status as an International Man of Mystery, so I must respectfully decline to say....

[UND-1]

I think your sentiment about NDSU/UND being a BSC package deal is absolutely ludicrous.

The major (only?) hindrance to NDSU finding a conference is its location. If a travel partner is needed, the Bison have one in SDSU. I have no idea what UND brings to the table other than the currently comatose rivalry.

The BSC has repeated its criteria for expansion regularly over the last few years: geography and academic quality. It's huge unstated standard is presence in a large markets (Northridge, Portland State, UNC, Sac-State). Concerns regarding athletic competiveness, commitment to gender-equity and student-athletes have also been voiced.

I don't see for a second how UND trumps SDSU in any of these categories, though some are definitely arguable. Given the fact that SDSU is currently DI definitely gives them a leg up.

If the Big Sky is interested in being as good as they can be for the next 5 years...then SDSU would be a great choice cause they would be eligible sooner. If they want to be as good as they can be for the next 20 years or for the long term, UND is the better selection. Depends on there thinking.

Anyone who thinks SDSU would be a better choice than UND for anything other than an equestrian conference is kidding themselves.

[bincitysioux]

I love the idea of the 12 team Big Sky. I think it is the most logical step the Sky can take to fortify itself in all sports, not just football. It makes sense for the Montana schools because I think they are the cornerstone of the conference, and I'd think it is no joyride for them to have to travel to Places like Sac State and NAU. A 12 team conference including the 3 Dakota schools offers them natural rivalries and better travel, and doesn't further hinder UNC or Weber as far as travel goes. I wouldn't think any of these schools would object to adding the 3 Dakota schools. And, obviously, it is the best overall option for all 3 of the Dakota schools.

That being said, while this is a logical scenario, I think the Sky has another logical option as far as expansion goes, and fear that this is the way they could be leaning. They are at 9 members now (starting next year). This is fine for football, but not really ideal for basketball. Perhaps their goal all along has been simply to grow into a 10 team league, and their looking to add one more member and be done with expansion. I don't know who that member may be, but I think if this is the case, none of the Dakota schools are very attractive contenders. Southern Utah fits geographically, but I don't know much about them, whether or not they are a school the BSC would consider, or if SUU is even interested. Another candidate, assuming the BSC wouldn't mind adding one non-football school (I have no idea if they'd want that or not), would be Denver. Perfect geographic fit, in a large market. As members of the Sun Belt in most sports, their travel costs must be astronomical. I'd think they'd join in a heartbeat, if they were offered the opportunity. But like I said, maybe the Sky has no interest in a non-football school.

However, I still hold out hope that 12 teams is their agenda. If they wanted a ceiling of 10, I personally would have thought a package addition of NDSU and SDSU for 2006 would have been more attractive than UNC in the long-run, despite travel concerns.

Just a question out of the blue, has their ever been any indication in recent years that any current members of the SKY would look/like to leave for a different conference if a spot were made available?

[UND Fan]

I love the idea of the 12 team Big Sky. I think it is the most logical step the Sky can take to fortify itself in all sports, not just football. It makes sense for the Montana schools because I think they are the cornerstone of the conference, and I'd think it is no joyride for them to have to travel to Places like Sac State and NAU. A 12 team conference including the 3 Dakota schools offers them natural rivalries and better travel, and doesn't further hinder UNC or Weber as far as travel goes. I wouldn't think any of these schools would object to adding the 3 Dakota schools. And, obviously, it is the best overall option for all 3 of the Dakota schools.

That being said, while this is a logical scenario, I think the Sky has another logical option as far as expansion goes, and fear that this is the way they could be leaning. They are at 9 members now (starting next year). This is fine for football, but not really ideal for basketball. Perhaps their goal all along has been simply to grow into a 10 team league, and their looking to add one more member and be done with expansion. I don't know who that member may be, but I think if this is the case, none of the Dakota schools are very attractive contenders. Southern Utah fits geographically, but I don't know much about them, whether or not they are a school the BSC would consider, or if SUU is even interested. Another candidate, assuming the BSC wouldn't mind adding one non-football school (I have no idea if they'd want that or not), would be Denver. Perfect geographic fit, in a large market. As members of the Sun Belt in most sports, their travel costs must be astronomical. I'd think they'd join in a heartbeat, if they were offered the opportunity. But like I said, maybe the Sky has no interest in a non-football school.

However, I still hold out hope that 12 teams is their agenda. If they wanted a ceiling of 10, I personally would have thought a package addition of NDSU and SDSU for 2006 would have been more attractive than UNC in the long-run, despite travel concerns.

Just a question out of the blue, has their ever been any indication in recent years that any current members of the SKY would look/like to leave for a different conference if a spot were made available?

There is no question that either two or four ND/SD/MN (or maybe UNO) schools would be preferred by the BSC - three would be especially difficult for BB scheduling. Therefore, it would certainly help the cause if USD or one of the Minnesota schools decided to take the plunge with us.

Wow - I make that statement and I am one who doesn't think we should go DI. Well, if we are forced to, I hope at least one other NCC school joins us!

[bincitysioux]

There is no question that either two or four ND/SD/MN (or maybe UNO) schools would be preferred by the BSC -

I really don't think that the Sky would be interested in any school east of I-29. The Sky is already an extremely far reaching conference, that is really spread out. That's why I think it is probably 3 Dakota schools, or none. We're already on the outer fringe. The western most members would really object to expanding that far.

[bincitysioux]

Another question out of the blue: With DII getting so "watered-down" has there been any DI talk from the other traditional DII powers like, say....Pitt St., Indiana of PA, or GVSU?

[bisonguy]

..........

Just a question out of the blue, has their ever been any indication in recent years that any current members of the SKY would look/like to leave for a different conference if a spot were made available?

Sac State's new president has stated that they will look over their entire athletic department, including conference affiliation. Some speculate that Sac State might possibly be looking at a DI-A conference, like the WAC, other speculation is a Big West conference membership for all other sports (would bring them in with a lot of other local schools and rivals-i.e. UC-Davis) with a possible Great West membership if they decide to stay in I-AA.

Portland State is known to be Sac State's lapdog, so if a move is made by Sac State, PSU may also tag along.

Of course, if Sac State departed, the Big Sky would be more likely to accept the Dakota schools. Sac State has been far and away the most vocal opponent to expanding into the Dakotas. PSU is thought to also oppose expanison into the Dakotas.

There's always some rumblings from Montana fans about having an invitation in hand to the WAC, but it's doubtful that they will do that in the near future.

Another question out of the blue: With DII getting so "watered-down" has there been any DI talk from the other traditional DII powers like, say....Pitt St., Indiana of PA, or GVSU?

IUP has mentioned it, nothing else that I've heard from other traditional powers.

[The Sicatoka]

Sac State has been far and away the most vocal opponent to expanding into the Dakotas. PSU is thought to also oppose expanison into the Dakotas.

Sac State's AD has ridden a bus on I-29 between Grand Forks and Fargo and Brookings in Janurary or February. Given the choice I'm sure he'd rather ride a bus between Davis, CA, and Portland, OR.

I'm also wondering if and when the "far west" portion of the Big Sky goes for a west coast conference. That would leave Montana, MSU, Idaho St, EWU, Weber St, NAU, UNC. Now let's get really bizarre: Add NDSU, SDSU, UND, UNO (not sure if they'd do it or go DII MIAA), and USD (who I think will follow suit of whatever UND does). There's 12 teams.*

* Before folks ask, I don't see any of the Minnesota NCC schools having the funding to go DI-AA. I see them in a reconstituted NCC (with some former NSIC members).

[star2city]

I give the Bison at best a 3-1 shot of being in the Big Sky in the near future, UND 8-1.

But since you made the offer first I bet you a coke that UND won't be in the BSC by 08/09 (I'd love to be wrong on this one, but I don't see it happening).

Nothing more than a coke? Accepted. Remember, the offer stays good until spring of 2007 (in time for 2008-9 season).

Chances they will receive an offer by 2008-2009 IMO:

SDSU: 80% (Big Sky wants to upgrade their basketball RPI - basketball, not football, is how the Big SKy will expand its revenue: changing current meager interest to minor interest will be worth a few $'s)

NDSU: 70% (men's basketball is their weak link and doesn't upgrade the BSC, other schools are exactly thrilled with NDSU's potential for success in football)

UND: 65% (TV camera ready facilities, most UND supporters actually underestimate the capability of the Betty/Ralph to recruit mid-major basketball players, current DII status not that big of a deal)

Travel Partners

SDSU-UNC

NDSU-UND

Mont-MT St

Idaho St- Weber

NAU - Sac St

PSU - EWU

IUP has mentioned it, nothing else that I've heard from other traditional powers.

Valdosta State and North Alabama have DI aspirations in the near term, but nothing official yet. Not exactly DII powers, but look for Tarleton St., West Texas A&M (actually used to be in the Missouri Valley), and Central Oklahoma to move up if they could find a conference.

[star2city]

Southern Utah fits geographically, but I don't know much about them, whether or not they are a school the BSC would consider, or if SUU is even interested. Another candidate, assuming the BSC wouldn't mind adding one non-football school (I have no idea if they'd want that or not), would be Denver. Perfect geographic fit, in a large market. As members of the Sun Belt in most sports, their travel costs must be astronomical. I'd think they'd join in a heartbeat, if they were offered the opportunity. But like I said, maybe the Sky has no interest in a non-football school.

However, I still hold out hope that 12 teams is their agenda. If they wanted a ceiling of 10, I personally would have thought a package addition of NDSU and SDSU for 2006 would have been more attractive than UNC in the long-run, despite travel concerns.

Just a question out of the blue, has their ever been any indication in recent years that any current members of the SKY would look/like to leave for a different conference if a spot were made available?

Southern Utah is not attractive for a number of reasons: academics, travel, low fan interest, limited upside, there's already a BSC school in Utah, no natural travel partner (NAU to SUU travel is a nightmare, and Weber St / Idaho St. already make a great pair).

Denver was approached by the Big Sky and repeatedly said no.

UNC was accepted primarily because of its TV market and the promise of BSC games on the Altitude network.

Sac St., NAU, and Portland St. all supposedly have DIA aspirations. When the WAC loses La Tech, and/or Boise St., and/or Fresno St, or if San Jose St drops football, those three BSC teams (plus Davis and/or Cal Poly as well as Denver) would be the pool from which the WAC chooses its replacement schools.

The pecking order for schools likely admission to the BSC (Subject to major fluctuations depending on circumstances and timing) are:

SDSU

NDSU

UND

Western Wash (if one Pacific team leaves)

USD

Central Wash

SUU.

The Big Sky seems intent on gradually reshaping itself into a sort of Great Northwest conference.

[bincitysioux]

I'm also wondering if and when the "far west" portion of the Big Sky goes for a west coast conference. That would leave Montana, MSU, Idaho St, EWU, Weber St, NAU, UNC. Now let's get really bizarre: Add NDSU, SDSU, UND, UNO (not sure if they'd do it or go DII MIAA), and USD (who I think will follow suit of whatever UND does). There's 12 teams.*

I admit that I don't know alot about USD. I would like to see them move with UND, especially if a BSC invite is not in the fold. About all I do know is that they haven't been competitive in football for years, until recently. And that their host city is far smaller than those of the other 3 Dakota schools. Are they really anywhere near good enough financial shape to make the move? Didn't they have to cut baseball recently? I would think that if UND left, UNO would either move up or over, leaving USD as the dominant program in the NCC, and they'd probably like that.

Does anybody know how many scholarships the other NCC programs are at? Especially USD, UNO.

Denver was approached by the Big Sky and repeatedly said no.

That shocks me! How can the Sun Belt be more attractive than the conference that is right in their backyard?

[UND92,96]

I admit that I don't know alot about USD. I would like to see them move with UND, especially if a BSC invite is not in the fold. About all I do know is that they haven't been competitive in football for years, until recently. And that their host city is far smaller than those of the other 3 Dakota schools. Are they really anywhere near good enough financial shape to make the move? Didn't they have to cut baseball recently? I would think that if UND left, UNO would either move up or over, leaving USD as the dominant program in the NCC, and they'd probably like that.

Does anybody know how many scholarships the other NCC programs are at? Especially USD, UNO.

Aside from being located in a very small town, which admittedly is a problem, I don't think USD is in too bad of a situation in terms of money. Their fiscal year 2005 budget is at about $4.3 million, and I suspect their football revenue this year has gone up considerably now that they're actually doing well and fans are interested again for the first time in about 20 years. They're averaging a little over 7000 per game now, and that number will likely go up a bit after this Saturday's game. They draw around 2500 per game for men's basketball, which puts them far ahead of Northern Colorado, for example. Their fiscal year 2005 budget is very comparable to SDSU's fiscal year 2004 budget.

[IowaBison]

Nothing more than a coke? Accepted. Remember, the offer stays good until spring of 2007 (in time for 2008-9 season).

Sounds fine. If you're really picky, I'll buy you a 2 liter

[bincitysioux]

SDSU has been admitted to the Mid-Con for swimming & diving.

http://www.mid-con.com/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=3398

[bincitysioux]

Jeff Kolpack article in today's Forum on UND and DI. Nothing new.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...=Jeff%20Kolpack

[GCWaters]

Sounds fine. If you're really picky, I'll buy you a 2 liter

Geez, I'd really like some of this action, but its way too rich for my blood...I limit myself to 24 oz. wagers!!

[PCM]

Geez, I'd really like some of this action, but its way too rich for my blood...I limit myself to 24 oz. wagers!!

I hope that the NCAA doesn't catch wind of the high-stakes gambling going on here.

[choyt3]

Jeff Kolpack article in today's Forum on UND and DI. Nothing new.

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=107597

[HopHead]

I like the fact the UND basically used SDSU and NDSU as the "canaries in the coalmine". I was one of the many who thought the move to D1 was not a particularly good idea a couple of years ago. Now, I am starting to lean the other way. I am sure if UND determines it is now a good idea to move to D1, all the anti-Sioux folks will scream about how UND's decision makers are a bunch of hypocrites and flip-floppers (the haven't even made the move and it is happening on this forum). The bottom line is that situations change and successful people, companies and schools also change in response.