DI vs. DII

[UND92,96]

Those games ( I use the word loosely) were the work of Entzion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you suppose it was entirely a coincidence that a Moorhead State grad decided that his alma mater merited a $50k guarantee (twice)? I hope he got a nice thank you letter from Moorhead State for his generous "donation."

[IowaBison]

I think the hope was that folks from Moorhead State would come to the game and increase the gate.

Unfortunately, the games were so bad, that many Bison fans skipped the games.

[ndsubison]

I couldn't tell you who, in fact, set those MSUM "games" up but it was clearly an embarassment to both programs. I went to both and actually thought the first one (72-6 or something) was kind of funny . The second (80-0) was really bad. I actually felt sorry for the MSUM players and left the game early. If my memory serves, I think it was originally set up for a 3 game series. After the second game, I believe it was actually NDSU who called MSUM and essentially said "thanks but no thanks" as neither program was getting anything positive from the series. I also thought the idea was for MSUM to take the guarantee money and apply it to schollies, facility upgrades, etc for their (then upcoming) move to DII. From what I can tell, they've done neither with said money. Maybe Alfonso Scandrett can help them turn that corner as they are clearly a sorry program right now.

[tony]

I don't think the guarantee to Moorhead was 50k. It might have been as high as 30k, but I was thinking it was 15k. However, lest ye try to rewrite history, here's a list of the non-conference schools NDSU scheduled in their last 20 years in D2 (this isn't counting the playoffs):

Northern Michigan (five times), TAMUK (three times), Cal Poly-SLO (twice), Minn. State - Moorhead (twice), Angelo State (twice), UC Davis (twice), Angelo State (twice), Indiana PA, Grand Valley State, Pittsburg State, Delta State, Valdosta State, West Georgia, Emporia State, Ferris State, Western State, Winona State, Tusculum, Montana, Concordia-St. Paul.

Moorhead State is the exception to the rule - 18 of the 30 games NDSU played were vs teams that have played in a national championship game either before or since. Now, which programs in DII do you suppose even came close to putting the type of non-conference schedule together that NDSU did?

My point is (finally) that NDSU wasn't spending big money for the best programs in DII and *still* the common knowledge, not just among UND fans, is that NDSU loaded up the schedule with weak teams.

[ESPNInsider]

I don't think many people ever thought that NDSU loaded up the schedule with weak teams? I've always thought NDSU did a nice job of bringing in quality teams to start the year. UND has typically brought in weaker teams to start the season. Though I am a Florida fan and the Gators have been known to start out the season with a cupcake or two. (of course they play FSU at the end of each season)

[UND Fan]

I don't think the guarantee to Moorhead was 50k. It might have been as high as 30k, but I was thinking it was 15k. However, lest ye try to rewrite history, here's a list of the non-conference schools NDSU scheduled in their last 20 years in D2 (this isn't counting the playoffs):

Northern Michigan (five times), TAMUK (three times), Cal Poly-SLO (twice), Minn. State - Moorhead (twice), Angelo State (twice), UC Davis (twice), Angelo State (twice), Indiana PA, Grand Valley State, Pittsburg State, Delta State, Valdosta State, West Georgia, Emporia State, Ferris State, Western State, Winona State, Tusculum, Montana, Concordia-St. Paul.

Moorhead State is the exception to the rule - 18 of the 30 games NDSU played were vs teams that have played in a national championship game either before or since. Now, which programs in DII do you suppose even came close to putting the type of non-conference schedule together that NDSU did?

My point is (finally) that NDSU wasn't spending big money for the best programs in DII and *still* the common knowledge, not just among UND fans, is that NDSU  loaded up the schedule with weak teams.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one can accuse SU of scheduling a bunch of weaklings over the years. For have consistently spent the money to bring in top notch, "name" opponents.

[UND92,96]

I don't think the guarantee to Moorhead was 50k. It might have been as high as 30k, but I was thinking it was 15k. However, lest ye try to rewrite history, here's a list of the non-conference schools NDSU scheduled in their last 20 years in D2 (this isn't counting the playoffs):

Northern Michigan (five times), TAMUK (three times), Cal Poly-SLO (twice), Minn. State - Moorhead (twice), Angelo State (twice), UC Davis (twice), Angelo State (twice), Indiana PA, Grand Valley State, Pittsburg State, Delta State, Valdosta State, West Georgia, Emporia State, Ferris State, Western State, Winona State, Tusculum, Montana, Concordia-St. Paul.

Moorhead State is the exception to the rule - 18 of the 30 games NDSU played were vs teams that have played in a national championship game either before or since. Now, which programs in DII do you suppose even came close to putting the type of non-conference schedule together that NDSU did?

My point is (finally) that NDSU wasn't spending big money for the best programs in DII and *still* the common knowledge, not just among UND fans, is that NDSU

[tony]

Hehehe, every time somebody mentions NDSU scheduling Moorhead, you're going to see that list. That's me being proactive.

[snaggles]

I remember when the bison rubbed it in on the poor dragons. I knew someone who coached for moorhead at the time and they were just pissed how the bison poured it on. It sounded like they didn't call off the dogs until late. Sorry to bring this up, I guess I'm just being proactive or something.

[Bison Dan]

I remember when the bison rubbed it in on the poor dragons.  I knew someone who coached for moorhead at the time and they were just pissed how the bison poured it on.  It sounded like they didn't call off the dogs until late.  Sorry to bring this up, I guess I'm just being proactive or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the quality of dii now. UND has played moorhead plenty of times and when NDSU was playing moorhead UND was playing crookston. I was at the game and what do you do when you play all your guys? I'm glad they were pissed - maybe they would start to field a tolerable team but they went down hill from there. Funny how UND fans only remember the moorhead game and not all the other quality teams NDSU has brought in over the last 20 years.

[snaggles]

I'm not talking about who played who in the last 20 years. I'm talking about a team that can hang 80 on there neighbor. That's why the coach was pissed off, because there was something that could have been done to prevent scoring 80 points.

[UND92,96]

Funny how UND fans only remember the moorhead game and not all the other quality teams NDSU has brought in over the last 20 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you really think that, perhaps you should re-read this entire thread. Nobody has said anything about NDSU not playing quality opponents. I'm sorry I even brought up the issue of overpaying the Dragons, even though it's probably indisputable that paying anything over about $1.99 would have been too much. It's pretty sad when even Bob Entzion can't be criticized without somebody taking offense.

[bisonguy]

I'm not talking about who played who in the last 20 years.

[tony]

Say what you will about Babich, but I don't think he ran the score up on people... heck, most of the time we were happy to see the offense score as many as they gave up.

Moorhead gained 60 yards the whole game, passed 23 times and completed 6 (three of them to Bison players), gave up three TDs on punts, threw a TD pass to Bison db, and fumbled it away twice. No team is going to do that and not get whipped.

NDSU only completed five passes on nine attempts, Gordon only got 8 touches, and NDSU ran the ball FORTY-SEVEN times. What else would you have had Babich do?

Too bad the Dragons didn't play NDSU in 2002 - they'd have had a shot at revenge.

[ESPNInsider]

I hate when people see a score and automatically think that one team "ran up the score" on another. You need to see the game in person, I believe, to judge that. I've been a part of many scenarios like this. Where some percieved we ran up the score, where we thought the other team did, and where you can just tell that we are doing all we can to get it over with. I've always thought that it was much worse to kneel on the ball or do some stupid crap to get the game over with then it was to just continue running the ball. As a coach we continued to run the ball, we would just put in our lowest-end players and maybe be slower to get to the line. I always made sure that our kids also were not laughing or showing up the other team in any way.

Same goes in b-ball. I'm a ref and I remeber one middle school girls game that ended 40-some to 4. But when the team that lost scored there baskets they were soooo excited and the other team was excited for them. Some would say they were running up the score if you would just see the score, but us who were there know otherwise.

[Bison Dan]

If you really think that, perhaps you should re-read this entire thread. Nobody has said anything about NDSU not playing quality opponents. I'm sorry I even brought up the issue of overpaying the Dragons, even though it's probably indisputable that paying anything over about $1.99 would have been too much. It's pretty sad when even Bob Entzion can't be criticized without somebody taking offense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What did UND pay for crookston? Same quality team.

[ESPNInsider]

What did UND pay for crookston? Same quality team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

$11.50 and an old jock strap

[UND92,96]

What did UND pay for crookston? Same quality team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If memory serves me correctly, it was something like $5,000, although I like ESPNInsider's answer better.

[ecbrevik]

Excellent points BinCity, and to add about your comments about Men's basketball.  Down the road mens basketball attendance would be around 4-6,000 (at D1 level) when you have bigger more recognizable names coming to your school....say Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa, Montana, Wisconsin, every couple years or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously don't understand how D-I basketball works. Those schools don't come to your place, you go to theirs. Its called gate revenues, these guys play most of their nonconference schedules at HOME. Heck, a successful mid-major like Gonzaga can't get the big programs to come play at their place! Why would the Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin programs bother to come to Grand Forks?

[ecbrevik]

I don't get what you mean. ndsu only drew 1100 against Dakota Weslyan, and they couldn't get any DI's into the BSA other than SDSU. I'm sure more seats would have been filled if someone like UWGB were there. I'm not talking 5,000, but probably like 2,000-2,500. They probably would have drawn close to that against Mankato or Duluth if they were still in the NCC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one of the problems with going D-I, the big name schools DON'T COME TO YOUR PLACE! YOU GO TO THERES. The trip Kansas made to UND in 2001 was a one-time deal, it was a favor to a North Dakota kid on the Kansas roster. Nothing more.

[Bison_Kent]

This is one of the problems with going D-I, the big name schools DON'T COME TO YOUR PLACE! YOU GO TO THERES. The trip Kansas made to UND in 2001 was a one-time deal, it was a favor to a North Dakota kid on the Kansas roster. Nothing more.

This is incorrect. NDSU had few DI schools last year totally either on the road or at home because they counted as a DII team for the DI opponents. This season NDSU will be hosting Idaho, Idaho State, Maine, Denver, and Eastern Michigan and will see such teams as Kansas State the following year after making visits to these schools this year. NDSU will have road contests at Minnesota, Wisconsin, Drake, Montana State, Colorado State, and Wisconsin-Green Bay.

I know these schools aren't Kentucky or Duke but these schools are still better opponents than Crookston or Bemidji.

[ecbrevik]

This is incorrect. NDSU had few DI schools last year totally either on the road or at home because they counted as a DII team for the DI opponents. This season NDSU will be hosting Idaho, Idaho State, Maine, Denver, and Eastern Michigan and will see such teams as Kansas State the following year after making visits to these schools this year. NDSU will have road contests at Minnesota, Wisconsin, Drake, Montana State, Colorado State, and Wisconsin-Green Bay.

I know these schools aren't Kentucky or Duke but these schools are still better opponents than Crookston or Bemidji.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And your post has proven my point. I never said D-I schools won't visit you, I said the BIG NAMES won't. You are hosting Idaho, Idaho State, Maine, Denver, and Eastern Michigan. Not a single "big name" in that bunch, these are second tier D-I programs. I don't say that as an insult to them, its just a fact of life. You visit Minnesota and Wisconsin, the "biggest" names you list. You got a home and home with Kansas State, a mediocre at best program in a big league.

I will repeat: when you are a have-not in D-I, the big names don't come to your house, YOU GO TO THEIRS. Just ask Gonzaga, a quality program that has been very frustrated in their attempts to get name schools to visit Spokane. There are VERY few exceptions to this.

If D-I programs are being sold to people at NDSU and UND with the promise of a regular stream of opponents with national name recognition playing in Fargo and Grand Forks, that's a load of cow manure.

[star2city]

. . . will see such teams as Kansas State the following year after making visits to these schools this year.

[bincitysioux]

And your post has proven my point. I never said D-I schools won't visit you, I said the BIG NAMES won't. You are hosting Idaho, Idaho State, Maine, Denver, and Eastern Michigan. Not a single "big name" in that bunch, these are second tier D-I programs. I don't say that as an insult to them, its just a fact of life. You visit Minnesota and Wisconsin, the "biggest" names you list. You got a home and home with Kansas State, a mediocre at best program in a big league.

I will repeat: when you are a have-not in D-I, the big names don't come to your house, YOU GO TO THEIRS. Just ask Gonzaga, a quality program that has been very frustrated in their attempts to get name schools to visit Spokane. There are VERY few exceptions to this.

If D-I programs are being sold to people at NDSU and UND with the promise of a regular stream of opponents with national name recognition playing in Fargo and Grand Forks, that's a load of cow manure.

Nobody here has eluded that a move to DI would bring Florida St., Duke, North Carolina, Illinois, Notre Dame, or other "big name DI schools" to Grand Forks. But, it could possibly bring schools like Idaho, Idaho State, Maine, Denver, and Eastern Michigan (ecbrevik examples), along with Wisconsin-GB, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Montana, Montana St., Illinois-Chicago, etc., etc. On top of those possibilities, it assuredly will bring NDSU and SDSU back to Grand Forks. I will still maintain that having one of the most successful DI hockey programs in the country will be an asset for scheduling in all other sports. I don't think it is too far fetched that UND could play UMASS in basketball! How's that for a big name? New Hampshire, Harvard, Canisius.....All these prospective opponents, as far as I am concerned, are better than Valley City St., Mayville St, Southwest Minnesota St., Colorado Christan, Mesa St.......It all boils down to the type of competition that you think your school should be competing against. Is UND a VCSU/Mayville St. type institution, or is it a University of Maine/University of New Hampshire type institution? You all know my opinion.

[ecbrevik]

Nobody here has eluded that a move to DI would bring Florida St., Duke, North Carolina, Illinois, Notre Dame, or other "big name DI schools" to Grand Forks.