Empty Seats

[Runninwiththedogs]

How come no one has mentioned this before? Everyone was at church praying for a win!

[Canuck]

PCM, I'm one of the first to brag about UND's fantastic attendance numbers "per capita." In fact, I called out Jess Myers for that very reason two years ago when he gave UND fans a "bench minor" in his column for not packing the joint against BC (I believe there was a major concert at the Alerus that night).

But nobody was pointing out market size as a deterrant when we were completely filling the building for the first three years.

I agree that offensive hockey is more marketable hockey. I agree that marquee players add more lustre. My point is, a true fan is a true fan whether Tony Hrkac or Colby Genoway is the first-line center. Whether Scott Brower or Karl Goehring is the goalie. And whether Dean Blais or Dave Hakstol is the coach.

It was the biggest game of the year and the "actual" attendance had to be considered a disappointment. If any team with fans worth their face paint was hovering around .500 yet were still involved in a late-season game with playoff implications, you can bet the crowd would be a) near or above average in size and b) near or above average in noise/enthusiasm.

[PCM]

It was the biggest game of the year and the "actual" attendance had to be considered a disappointment. If any team with fans worth their face paint was hovering around .500 yet were still involved in a late-season game with playoff implications, you can bet the crowd would be a) near or above average in size and b) near or above average in noise/enthusiasm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IF it had been a normal Friday night/Saturday night series and IF weather hadn't been a factor, THEN I'd say you have a valid point and reason for concern. But between the circumstances being abnormal and the way the team's been playing, I think you have to expect a drop in attendance.

Besides that, you know as well as I do that on a given Sioux hockey night, not every fan in the building is a die-hard UND hockey fan. There will always be a certain percentage of Sioux fans who stay home if they have an excuse or a reason to do so.

I'm not saying that it's a good thing, only that it's a fact of life and that there's not much anyone can do about it.

[skateshattrick]

PCM, I'm one of the first to brag about UND's fantastic attendance numbers "per capita." In fact, I called out Jess Myers for that very reason two years ago when he gave UND fans a "bench minor" in his column for not packing the joint against BC (I believe there was a major concert at the Alerus that night).

But nobody was pointing out market size as a deterrant when we were completely filling the building for the first three years.

I agree that offensive hockey is more marketable hockey. I agree that marquee players add more lustre. My point is, a true fan is a true fan whether Tony Hrkac or Colby Genoway is the first-line center. Whether Scott Brower or Karl Goehring is the goalie. And whether Dean Blais or Dave Hakstol is the coach.

It was the biggest game of the year and the "actual" attendance had to be considered a disappointment. If any team with fans worth their face paint was hovering around .500 yet were still involved in a late-season game with playoff implications, you can bet the crowd would be a) near or above average in size and b) near or above average in noise/enthusiasm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I go to Sioux games thick or thin, but I disagree with your logic. The only way a "true fan" can express his/her displeasure is by staying away when the product is mediocre or inferior. Many "true fans" are not happy with the way this team has played, with how the hiring process was handled, etc. We are/should be a national contender and anything less is not acceptable. If we continue to pack the place while having a mediocre team that does not play with passion, what message are you sending? The Chicago Cubs were content to be mediocre every year because they still filled the stadium every year. Raise the bar and expectations and you will see a building filled to capacity every week. If not, you will see what happened in the early 90's when the team was horrible and the attendance was also horrible.

[SiouxMeNow]

IF it had been a normal Friday night/Saturday night series and IF weather hadn't been a factor, THEN I'd say you have a valid point and reason for concern. But between the circumstances being abnormal and the way the team's been playing, I think you have to expect a drop in attendance.

Besides that, you know as well as I do that on a given Sioux hockey night, not every fan in the building is a die-hard UND hockey fan. There will always be a certain percentage of Sioux fans who stay home if they have an excuse or a reason to do so.

I'm not saying that it's a good thing, only that it's a fact of life and that there's not much anyone can do about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

isn't "BAD ROADS" kind of like "we ran into a hot goalie" or "we hit the pipes a lot" from the fan perspective??...excuses...excuses...excuses!!! (what goes around comes around!)

[Sioux-per Villain]

I'll toss out a few more reasons why the house wasn't packed on Sunday. The Sioux are at .500 in the WCHA, not far above .500 in their overall record, out of contention for the league title and on the bubble to make the NCAA playoffs. On top of that, the Sioux have no viable Hobey Baker candidtate, the team hasn't been lighting up the scoreboard and it can often be very frustrating to watch.

The way this season has gone, I'm not surprised by a drop in attendance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I drove from Fargo both Sat & Sun. No problem with road conditions Sat, but Sunday was an adventure. However, I totally agree with PCM's take on this. A low scoring .500 team is frustrating to watch.

Anybody notice that Porter rarely has any of his shots on net? Even when it's an open net. Now that's frustrating!

[PCM]

isn't "BAD ROADS" kind of like "we ran into a hot goalie" or "we hit the pipes a lot" from the fan perspective??...excuses...excuses...excuses!!!  (what goes around comes around!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't say that it's an excuse that you or anyone else had to accept, only that it was a reason that some fans might not attend.

Some people will exercise their right to be stupid and drive no matter how horrible the road conditions are. That doesn't mean it's smart and that everyone should do it. Some people will take more risks than others, just as some people will use excuses more readily than others.

[dakotadan]

If you want to call me a fair weather fan because I wasn't at yesterday's game go ahead. The simple fact is that it was a sunday afternoon with !@#!$ weather. I had to get out of town as early as possible. The simple fact is that even die hard fans do have lives that they still need to live.

[ScottM]

Which has exactly been my point all season; for all the chest-thumping we hear from Sioux fans about how loyal they are, the minute the team slides toward the middle of the pack, there's a mass exodus from the ol' bandwagon.

It only reiterates how absolutely spoiled Sioux fans are. The fact of the matter is, despite the reasons listed above, this still remained an absolutely critical game for the Sioux against a storied opponent.

This "bandwagonitis" is endemic with most programs. I recall in Gino's last days that you didn't even have to wait to get into old REA for Minnesota or Wisco games. Most teams probably have a solid core of probably 45-50% of their barn's capacity, who will do whatever is necessary to attend all games. The remainder are floaters who only show up when the team is winning, it's convenient or it's "trendy". That said, most other programs would die to have 10,500 fans show up *any* day, not just a Sunday afternoon to watch a .500 team.

[Fifty-Mission Cap]

For however many fans where there, did anyone actually notice how quite it was during important times during the game?

[sprig]

Most teams probably have a solid core of probably 45-50% of their barn's capacity, who will do whatever is necessary to attend all games. The remainder are floaters who only show up when the team is winning, it's convenient or it's "trendy".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The old (then new) REA crowd was much less than 50% at the end of the Bjorkman era. Fortunately it did not take long for Gino's teams to fill the place.

[Smoggy]

PCM, I'm one of the first to brag about UND's fantastic attendance numbers "per capita." In fact, I called out Jess Myers for that very reason two years ago when he gave UND fans a "bench minor" in his column for not packing the joint against BC (I believe there was a major concert at the Alerus that night).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of Jess Myers. I guess he's a contributer for Sioux Illustrated along with INCH. He is from Warroad and graduated from UMD.

[jerseychaser1]

Diggler, I agree. I sat in section 109 and went to every single game. A lot of times there were a ton of empty seats right next to me and in front of me. Sometimes even a whole row. That really ticked me off, cause they payed for those season tickets and half of the time they didn't even show up.

[jimdahl]

But nobody was pointing out market size as a deterrant when we were completely filling the building for the first three years.

I wouldn't say nobody

Not much has changed since then, I still don't think UND's core crowd is >10k and I think attendance will slip dramatically during a sustained period of true mediocrity (dropping out of the top 15 for one week this year is nowhere near what I'm talking about). Thankfully, so far the Sioux continue to prevent my theory from being tested by contuing to excel.

Regardless, I think we're going to see some modest declines in coming years as the "new thing" factor wears off REA. This is why I've questioned the apparent business strategy of maximizing revenue now instead of using this surge in popularity to try to lock-in more hardcore fans; fostering loyalty could produce a lot more consistent revenue in the long-run than trying to extract an extra dime from each fan when times are flush.

[sprig]

I wouldn't say nobody

Not much has changed since then, I still don't think UND's core crowd is >10k and I think attendance will slip dramatically during a sustained period of true mediocrity (dropping out of the top 15 for one week this year is nowhere near what I'm talking about). Thankfully, so far the Sioux continue to prevent my theory from being tested by contuing to excel.

Regardless, I think we're going to see some modest declines in coming years as the "new thing" factor wears off REA. This is why I've questioned the apparent business strategy of maximizing revenue now instead of using this surge in popularity to try to lock-in more hardcore fans; fostering loyalty could produce a lot more consistent revenue in the long-run than trying to extract an extra dime from each fan when times are flush.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, no, that thread brings back my bad memories of deciding to drop $100 on dataflix

[Canuck]

Let me try and start over. I don't disagree with the idea that every program has bandwagon fans. I don't disagree with the idea that every program has down periods. I don't disagree with why said bandwagon fans may have chosen to stay home on Sunday.

What I was trying to reiterate, was that relative to the crowds we have seen the first three years, Sunday's crowd (size and energy level) was a huge disappointment (in my opinion), considering the magnitude of the game (and opponent).

I understand different people have different reasons for attending/not attending; give me a little credit. However, to paraphrase Siouxmenow - excuses, excuses, excuses.

The roads were slippery. Student season ticket holders hog all the student tickets. The state tournament was on that weekend. It was a Sunday afternoon. Were .500 in the conference. We're not (yet) a national contender. We don't have Hobey candidates. We don't score five goals a game. Dean Blais isn't the coach. AD NAUSEUM!

Whatever. Bottom line is, when magnitude of the game and the opponent and the time of the season are all taken into consideration, Sunday's crowd was a huge disappointment.

Regardless of the reasons.

[Cratter]

Canuck, did you really think the place was going to be packed for a Sunday afternoon game?

They may be "excuses" but those excuses are valid points many people did not attend the game. Your only point I see if you were disappointed with the attendance. While others are not, because they know the circumstances behind it all.

Icy roads are an excuse, but the interstate was later shut down that night. So apparently that seems to be a pretty valid reason for someone from Fargo, which many people who attend the games are from, not to attend.

[#1Hakfan]

The Building is way to big. How many sell out were there last year when we had one of our best teams. When it is inconvenient for out of town people and students (during breaks) the crowds are smaller.

People forget the old Building always had empty seats unless we played Minnesota.

[Canuck]

Canuck, did you really think the place was going to be packed for a Sunday afternoon game?

Umm, yes.

[PCM]

People forget the old Building always had empty seats unless we played Minnesota.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. There were many nights when the Sioux were playing in the old REA that I'd be at home listening on the radio because the game was supposedly sold out and I couldn't get tickets. Then I'd hear Tim Hennessy comment about how many empty seats there were in the building and it would really tick me off. And this was when Blais was coach and putting good teams on the ice.

[skateshattrick]

Umm, yes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will give you another reason. It is estimated that 1/3 of the season ticket holders are from the Fargo area. Assuming that to be true, the International Squirt Hockey tournament was being hosted at 10 area rinks in the Fargo-Moorhead-West Fargo area this past weekend. Many Fargo hockey people were working or attending that tournament, which is the biggest squirt tournament in North America. Couple that with the bad roads and the disappointing season and you have a few fans not show up. By the way, were you at the game? I actually thought that the crowd was pretty good for a Sunday afternoon and was pretty loud for a 1-1 game.

[skateshattrick]

Yep. There were many nights when the Sioux were playing in the old REA that I'd be at home listening on the radio because the game was supposedly sold out and I couldn't get tickets. Then I'd hear Tim Hennessy comment about how many empty seats there were in the building and it would really tick me off. And this was when Blais was coach and putting good teams on the ice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. In fact, in the early 90's when the Sioux were cellar dwellers, there were less than 2500 people most nights. As I've said before, you could throw a rock in any direction and probably not hit anyone. 10,000 is not bad under the circumstances.

[PCM]

Bottom line is, when magnitude of the game and the opponent and the time of the season are all taken into consideration, Sunday's crowd was a huge disappointment.

Regardless of the reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that under the circumstances, the turnout was disappointing. I'm just not as shocked by it as you seem to be.

[Canuck]

By the way, were you at the game?

Yes.

I agree that under the circumstances, the turnout was disappointing. I'm just not as shocked by it as you seem to be.

Shocked? No. Disappointed? Yes.

[Canuck]

I actually thought that the crowd was pretty good for a Sunday afternoon and was pretty loud for a 1-1 game.

Loud? Only if the "Noise meter" or Axl Rose told them to be. Even then, that's stretching it.