Playing to win

[U2Bad1]

I didn't see it. And I wasn't trying to second-guess Lennon because at the time the Sioux punted, I don't remember thinking that they should have gone for it. Only in retrospect does going for it on fourth down look like a smart move.

My primary intention was to point out that when the Sioux have run fakes, they've generally been successful because of Lennon's normally conservative style. If I were in the coach's shoes, I probably would have considered a fake punt before I lined up to run a play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was trying trying to take a pot shot at the vikings attempt at a fake punt last Sunday. I would not have complained if the sioux had fake punted or gone for it (even if they missed.) They were on the opponents 40 yard line which traditionally is the most likely place a team would go for it on 4th and very short. It's not like they were backed up in their own end.

[RD17]

I completely disagreed with the decision to punt, and to be honest, this is the one thing about Dale Lennon's coaching decisions that I'll never understand. Before anyone jumps down my throat, let me explain my position:

Think back to the SCSU playoff game. Twice Lennon had Jeff Glas attempt 52 yard field goals (the ball was spotted at the 35 both times vs the 41 in the Pitt St. game). The crosswind was absolutely brutal, and IMO, kicking the field goal was a very low percentage play (ie, not taking the conservative rout).

Fast-forward to the PSU game. UND had all the momentum, down by one point. As good as PSU's offense is, 21 yards of field position (with a touchback on the punt)means relatively little versus the risk tradeoff of picking up the first down. If you pin them inside the five yard line, great, but the chances of doing that are much slimmer than picking up the first down by going for it. Why UND would throw caution to the wind in the SCSU game while being so incredibly conservative against Pitt is something I can't understand.

[siouxfb]

Coach Lennon is by far the best coach in D2!!! How can you question his coaching after he has had so much success in recent years? This program is at a level far above what it has ever been before.....Now on to the topic...Why wouldn't you punt? THe sioux had so much success this year pinning teams deep! 4th and 1 is a long ways. It's a little different running the ball on 1st and 2nd down compared to 4th and short. As far as a pake punt, have you ever heard of a thing called punt safe? This is when the other team keeps their starting defense in rather than putting in their punt block/return team. Pitt St. had their safe unit on the field. So we would have put our punt team (made up mostly of defensive players who don't block very often) to run against their starting D. Come on people, be happy with the success you have had in recent years and hope that Coach Lennon stays around for a few more years.

[all4Sioux]

Coach Lennon is by far the best coach in D2!!! How can you question his coaching after he has had so much success in recent years? This program is at a level far above what it has ever been before.....Now on to the topic...Why wouldn't you punt? THe sioux had so much success this year pinning teams deep! 4th and 1 is a long ways. It's a little different running the ball on 1st and 2nd down compared to 4th and short. As far as a pake punt, have you ever heard of a thing called punt safe? This is when the other team keeps their starting defense in rather than putting in their punt block/return team. Pitt St. had their safe unit on the field. So we would have put our punt team (made up mostly of defensive players who don't block very often) to run against their starting D. Come on people, be happy with the success you have had in recent years and hope that Coach Lennon stays around for a few more years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that Lennon is a great coach and deserves respect. That does not mean some decisions can't be questioned, no coach is perfect. I am not second guessing, I was there and completly in favor of going for it, not with a fake punt, line up and pound it. Playing a team like Pitt you have to do something special.

[siouxfb]

Do you know how hard it is to get a yard on 4th down? If we didn't get it they have the ball at the 40 and all of the momentum.

[Smoggy]

Do you know how hard it is to get a yard on 4th down? If we didn't get it they have the ball at the 40 and all of the momentum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They got all the momentum anyways, because they scored on the drive following the punt if I'm not mistaken. Plus, their D got a stop when we were moving it quite easily on them.

[LennonIsTheMan]

Again, Coach Lennon made the right call by punting. That's the way he coaches. Certain coaches have certain philosophies and styles of coaching. This just happens to be the best coach in DII football's philosophy. There shouldn't be an element of surprise here. I know, hind-sight is always nice. Some of you should quit your day jobs and become a coach since you are so insightful and knowledgeable about it. I'm not saying all of you, just some. I realize that some here actually know what they are talking about, and I respect the opinions of that certain "handful". Get over it, that's not why we lost the game. Pitt State was the better team that day. Players win and lose games, not coaches.

[PCM]

As far as a pake punt, have you ever heard of a thing called punt safe? This is when the other team keeps their starting defense in rather than putting in their punt block/return team. Pitt St. had their safe unit on the field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I didn't know that, okay? That's something the UND coaching staff would know and it obviously would influence their decision to try a fake punt.

As I said, in retrospect, we can all look back and call ourselves geniuses for claiming that Lennon should have gone for it on fourth down. We now know what happened after the Sioux punted. And we now know how the game came out. That makes it easier for us fans to look brilliant using our 20/20 hindsight.

Sometimes I fault Lennon for being too conservative, but you can't argue with his record of success. This past season, the Sioux consistently put the game in the hands of their defense. Time and time again, the defense made plays that put the offense in good position to win. It worked against Grand Valley. I'm sure Lennon was banking on it working against Pitt State.

But the Sioux ran into an offense that was better than their defense, an offense that committed zero turnovers. Until the fourth quarter, it really wasn't clear how much better the Gorilla offense was than UND's defense. By then, it was too late to change the decision on 4th and 1.

[airmail]

Rather than go for it on 4th & 1, I would have hoped we made something out of the last 2:30 of the first half, instead of running out the clock. We wasted a precious possession at a time when we were moving the ball on a somewhat shaken Pitt defense. You score to end the half, you take momentum through halftime, and make the opponent and crowd think twice about their confidence. This, IMO, was a missed opportunity to get some points on the board, and swing some momentum our way.

Instead, we receive to start the 3rd quarter on an adjusted and rested defense, and we have to start from scratch.

(forgive my armchairing)

[UND-1]

In all this, we are overlooking the leaping penalty and the effect it had on Lennon's game plan/UND's momentum in the game. If it isn't called, UND has the ball somewhere around the 20-25 yard line and has the momentum from stopping them, which is huge when you are talking about Pitt State. If the offense goes down and does something, either field goal or TD, or perhaps Punts them deep, UND has got the game going the way they want and Lennon has the tight, field position game he was looking for.

Instead, they go down 24-13, two possession game, and with this offense Lennon's game plan is not taking place. Add to the fact that Pitt State has the offense to run 5-7 minutes off the clock if they get hot, and things went south in a hurry.

I think we all can agree that the game was never the gonna be ours after that Leaping Penalty.

[airmail]

I think we all can agree that the game was never the gonna be ours after that Leaping Penalty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

[PCM]

Probably the worst part about the leaping penalty was that not only did Pitt State end up with the 3 points, but the Gorillas also ran more minutes off the clock and forced a tired Sioux defense to stay on the field that much longer. It was a killer.

[SFSIOUX#1]

Sometime during the game a Sioux running back got hit out of bounds and it would have been a questionable call and one that was not made at the time. After complaing for a second on the non-call, I came to the conclusion that it was not flagrant and the Sioux player was fine. I concluded that I would hate to see a "bad call" shift momentum in favor of one of these great teams.

Fast forward to the field goal - whether it was a penalty or not, it had no consequence on the play as the field goal was missed regardless of the leap by the Sioux player. It is too bad that such a call was made as I thought it had a huge bearing on the game. In fact, as others have mentioned, once that penalty was called, it was game over.

[siouxfb]

It was a bad call, one that the officials missed. Stuff like that happens in every game, it's just to bad that it had such an effect on the outcome. The call really took a lot out of the Sioux. The defense had bent, but stopped their offense, more importantly they had not given up any points and we had plenty of time left to stay with our offensive game plan...Then the call, anways, we weren't a good enough team on Saturday to get past it. We had plenty of other opporunities to take over the game and we didn't do it. Now we gotta wait to see if next years team will be able to get us another one. GO SIOUX

[und91]

Rather than go for it on 4th & 1, I would have hoped we made something out of the last 2:30 of the first half, instead of running out the clock.  We wasted a precious possession at a time when we were moving the ball on a somewhat shaken Pitt defense.  You score to end the half, you take momentum through halftime, and make the opponent and crowd think twice about their confidence.  This, IMO, was a missed opportunity to get some points on the board, and swing some momentum our way.

Instead, we receive to start the 3rd quarter on an adjusted and rested defense, and we have to start from scratch.

(forgive my armchairing)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree. we should have tried to do something before half instead of running out the clock and we should have gone for it on 4 and 1. but that is pretty much how it has been all year for UND. they play for field position. i have no problem with the philosophy of the field postion game but when you have a defense as good as our defense this year i think a more aggressive philosophy would have worked better.

[sioux goo]

in December and playoff football when you need a yard one yard, you have to have a play and be able to run behind someone to get a yard, falling forward is three feet all you have to do is get to the line of scrimmage, if we couldnt get a yard in that situation, UND doesnt deserve to win, plain and simple!!! 3 feet, if Kuper is the best OL in the conference and he cant get you a yard...Houston we have a problem!!!

[BigGame]

in December and playoff football when you need a yard one yard, you have to have a play and be able to run behind someone to get a yard, falling forward is three feet all you have to do is get to the line of scrimmage, if we couldnt get a yard in that situation, UND doesnt deserve to win, plain and simple!!!  3 feet, if Kuper is the best OL in the conference and he cant get you a yard...Houston we have a problem!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sometimes you can get away with running a play behind a couple players or a certain side of the o line, but that isn't always the case. The defense could blitz off the backside, or the gap your trying to run through and blow the play up. I don't care how good the lineman is he can't block multiple people at the same time.

Each team has 11 guys on the field and if one player doesn't get his job done or is beat on a play it may not work out. Football is the ultimate team sport, if one guy of the 11 screws up the play could be destroyed. That is the main reason the offense usually takes longer to come together in early season, because everyone needs to be on the same page getting the job done. This requires a lot of time and reps running the plays, so most offenses tend to gradually get better as the season goes on.

[dakotadan]

Valdosta State was sure playing to win today when they called that fake punt on Fourth Down and converted. Sometimes you have to lay it all on the line in big situations. I will forever believe we should have gone for it on that big fourth down.

[bigmrg74]

I think it was all a conspiricy to set up the Gorilla in the NC game. Have a bunch of teams not go for it on fourth down on them, then when VSU really needed it, they could fake punt and get away with it because the Gorillas where not thinking about a fake. I'll let you guys figure out the details.

[The Sicatoka]

I think it was all a conspiricy to set up the Gorilla in the NC game.  Have a bunch of teams not go for it on fourth down on them, then when VSU really needed it, they could fake punt and get away with it because the Gorillas where not thinking about a fake.      I'll let you guys figure out the details.

The details? Does this pro-VSU conspiracy ultimately involve getting VSU a title that they maybe should have gotten back in 2002?

[bigmrg74]

[The Sicatoka]

I doubt it, GVSU won that title fair and Square that year. But you can keep digging with that angle in mind.

Be careful of conspiracy theories.

Signed,

The Vast Fighting Sioux Conspiracy

If you only knew ....