The Division I Question? New Answer?

[The Sicatoka]

Which schools were you talking about when you said that other schools in the area are trying to elevate their university through athletics alone?

UM-Crookston.

MSU-Moorhead.

Both went DII for what other reason than attempting to elevate public perceptions of the schools?

PS - Good to see you haven't lost the ol' ad hominem touch.

[The Sicatoka]

When do you think UND will go public with its plans or do you think the first time we'll hear about it is after the deed is done?

Like I said:

As far "public", UND has a history of not engaging in public discusssions of issues until they have a very good handle on the variables.

When they're sure they've looked at the matter well enough internally and have solid answers to the questions that will be raised would be a fair supposition.

[SiouxMeNow]

Would anything matter if I said I bumped into RT and Doug Fullerton walking around the bowels of Engelstad Arena today?? No C*ap!! It was him...

[SiouxMeNow]

i got a "real nervous" look from RT when i raised my eyebrows at Doug....he doesn't know me but I know him and I think RT knew that....

[The Sicatoka]

Now why in the world would this guy be in Grand Forks. (There's a photo to check your eyes SiouxMeNow.)

I really like this part of his bio:

Fullerton has also been sought by ... institutions as a consultant regarding the feasibility of level changes within the NCAA.

I believe Fullerton was once quoted (by The Oregonian) as saying:

"This is Division I in every sense, except for 20 less football scholarships," he said. "Some things don't register with people, such as what kind of facilities they are going to need. And academic centers. And training rooms. It's always more expensive than people think."

If it was him, I wonder if he liked The Ralph, The Betty, and The Al.

[tony]

Sorry, The Sicatoka, I owe you an apology. I thought for sure that you meant NDSU rather than UM Crookston and MN State Moorhead (re: schools who have raised their athletic level while ignoring their academics). Why not just say so in the first place?

In UM-C's defense, I'd say they have raised their academic level a heck of a lot higher than their athletic level (JUCO to four year). Moorhead - well, their conference moved up as a whole so their situation is different than UND's or NDSU's.

I suppose it is too early to really talk about this since it sound like UND is still in the phase of doing their internal study. If NDSU is a guide, the next step towards DI would get the public involved.

[The Sicatoka]

I suppose it is too early to really talk about this since it sound like UND is still in the phase of doing their internal study. If NDSU is a guide, the next step towards DI would get the public involved.

Upper administration (Thomas, Harmeson level), then coaching and athletics staff, then public, would be my assumption. You need messengers to carry the message to the public.

[The Sicatoka]

I thought for sure that you meant NDSU rather than UM Crookston and MN State Moorhead (re: schools who have raised their athletic level while ignoring their academics).  Why not just say so in the first place?

Some UM-C fans read this board (just as others).

[UND92,96]

I suppose it is too early to really talk about this since it sound like UND is still in the phase of doing their internal study. If NDSU is a guide, the next step towards DI would get the public involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think one of the big differences between the situations is that when NDSU announced their move, we all kind of knew that dII football scholarships would be cut at some point, but we really didn't know exactly when or to what extent. One school of thought was that it makes sense to stay in dII as long as possible because it would allow for at least the possibility of another title, something that presumably will be tougher in I-AA. I'm not saying that this school of thought is necessarily definitely right or definitely wrong, but it makes a certain amount of sense depending on your point of view. Now, with the football scholarship cut highly likely to occur within the next 3-4 months, it makes a potential move to dI/I-AA more pressing and arguably an easier sell to the public. It may not make a difference to a faculty member who doesn't care for or understand athletics, but for many of us who do, it certainly makes the decision easier to make.

[GCWaters]

I think one of the big differences between the situations is that when NDSU announced their move, we all kind of knew that dII football scholarships would be cut at some point, but we really didn't know exactly when or to what extent. One school of thought was that it makes sense to stay in dII as long as possible because it would allow for at least the possibility of another title, something that presumably will be tougher in I-AA.  I'm not saying that this school of thought is necessarily definitely right or definitely wrong, but it makes a certain amount of sense depending on your point of view.  Now, with the football scholarship cut highly likely to occur within the next 3-4 months, it makes a potential move to dI/I-AA more pressing and arguably an easier sell to the public.  It may not make a difference to a faculty member who doesn't care for or understand athletics, but for many of us who do, it certainly makes the decision easier to make.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you really think the cut will occur? The article I read suggested that there weren't enough votes to pass it, and that the better DII schools were strongly opposed...

[IowaBison]

they might cut it to 30, but the 24 that the RMAC and Penn Schools were recommending won't happen

it shouldn't happen at all, if you can't compete, then you can't compete

[Bisonfan1234]

36-24 is going to happen as early as next season.

Why do you guys have your heads so far up your asses about a damn indoor practice facility!?!

Only the best of the best DI schools in the whole nation have such facilities. If you did build it, there goes another $10 million.

Not only that, but you have the Alerus.

Why wouldn't you want the whole football operation to run out of there? Training, weights, coaches offices, meeting rooms, locker rooms, and the facility itself is an indoor practice facility.

[The Sicatoka]

The City of GF owns and operates the Alerus Center: the land, the building, all of it. Shouldn't the problems NDSU/Fargo/FargoDome are having (and there at least NDSU owns the land and leases it out) about locker rooms be enough of a red flag?

Are you sure you just don't want UND to have such a facility?

[The Sicatoka]

Only the best of the best DI schools in the whole nation have such facilities. If you did build it, there goes another $10 million.

What else should UND Athletics spend it on?

They already

- play in an indoor football stadium

- have a brand new basketball and volleyball facilty

- have an on-campus Olympic-sized hockey practice facility

- have The Ralph.

What is missing is the indoor training facility (for indoor track and for training space for outdoor sports like football, soccer, baseball, and softball).

PS - "Best of the best". I like it.

[Bisonfan1234]

You're not even DI.

There is one flaw in the plan. Indoor track is actually a sport. It's not just a time of the year when the track team gets ready for outdoor track.

Indoor track requires a 200m oval and a 55m dash. However, from what it sounds like, you're simply planning to build an outdoor track with a roof over it.

What you want is a modular, banked 200m oval and modular 55m dash that can be set up wherever you need it indoors (or outdoors if you choose).

[choyt3]

You're not even DI.

There is one flaw in the plan. Indoor track is actually a sport. It's not just a time of the year when the track team gets ready for outdoor track.

Indoor track requires a 200m oval and a 55m dash. However, from what it sounds like, you're simply planning to build an outdoor track with a roof over it.

What you want is a modular, banked 200m oval and modular 55m dash that can be set up wherever you need it indoors (or outdoors if you choose).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think The Sicatoka will be building anything. Who's this 'you' that you are referring to?

P.S. Please give this up.

[The Sicatoka]

Indoor track requires a 200m oval and a 55m dash. However, from what it sounds like, you're simply planning to build an outdoor track with a roof over it.

What you want is a modular, banked 200m oval and modular 55m dash that can be set up wherever you need it indoors (or outdoors if you choose).

I'm not a facilities expert, nor am I building it , but I'd guess a facility that could house a 300 meter track and 80 yards of turf could easily house the modular items that you mention (200 meter track, 55 meter dash).

[knowledge]

This discussion has nothing to do with who is DI and who is not. The discussion comes down to facilities. Compare the two schools......Who has better facilities. I don't know an NDSU supporter that can even try to say that Fargo has it better.

BASKETBALL--------THE BETTY

HOCKEY--------NO CONTEST THE RALPH

FOOTBALL--------TOSS UP.........The Alerus Center is the correct size for the GF metro area. The FargoDome is a little big for the FM area (unless the team is undefeated) but yet they are two great indoor facilities (yes great and indoor oxymoron)

BASEBALL/SOFTBALL-----NDSU

Track and Field-------actual track.....NDSU..........Facility and set up for athletes.......UND (not as open to wind etc.....)

Indoor Track-----THEY BOTH SUCK!!!! From experience neither are good for a track athletes body. They are both hard and two narrow.

Anyway......UND is taking all the right steps and being patient before they are forced to make their move thanks to the scholorship cuts.

UND will have all their ducks in a row before making the jump. They will have 75-90% of the facilities DI ready. NDSU presently has baseball, softball and football. They can keep dreaming about hosting any major DI track meets at their track......No U of Minn or any team worth mentioning is going to come north and race.

Long story longer...........UND will make a more successful jump based on the atmosphere that the athletic atmosphere that the school is creating will be much more inviting to an established Conference. This is evident by the "overwhelming strength" of the NDSU basketball schedule.

[NDSU grad]

This discussion has nothing to do with who is DI and who is not.  The discussion comes down to facilities.  Compare the two schools......Who has better facilities.  I don't know an NDSU supporter that can even try to say that Fargo has it better. 

BASKETBALL--------THE BETTY

HOCKEY--------NO CONTEST        THE RALPH

FOOTBALL--------TOSS UP.........The Alerus Center is the correct size for the GF metro area.  The        FargoDome is a little big for the FM area (unless the team is undefeated) but yet they are two great indoor facilities (yes great and indoor oxymoron)

BASEBALL/SOFTBALL-----NDSU

Track and Field-------actual track.....NDSU..........Facility and set up for athletes.......UND (not as open to wind etc.....)

Indoor Track-----THEY BOTH SUCK!!!!  From experience neither are good for a track athletes body.  They are both hard and two narrow.

Anyway......UND is taking all the right steps and being patient before they are forced to make their move thanks to the scholorship cuts.

UND will have all their ducks in a row before making the jump.  They will have 75-90% of the facilities DI ready.  NDSU presently has baseball, softball and football.  They can keep dreaming about hosting any major DI track meets at their track......No U of Minn or any team worth mentioning is going to come north and race.

Long story longer...........UND will make a more successful jump based on the atmosphere that the athletic atmosphere that the school is creating will be much more inviting to an established Conference.  This is evident by the "overwhelming strength" of the NDSU basketball schedule.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Ralph is irrelevant as a hockey facility, as a bball facility that's another story. Based on your list I'd say it's a tossup. I think both schools need an indoor facility for football (wait until you get 1234 started on this).

I really don't know what you mean by the "athletic atmosphere" UND is creating, although I will grant you that both our men's and women's (NDSU's) bball schedules suck, but should be much better next year. In any case, the next few months will be very entertainig. Key dates: January 10th; whenever the Big Sky announces their expansion (or lack thereof) plans

By the way, how many of you think that success at the two schools is a zero sum game? Not a rhetorical question, seriously asking. Myself, I really don't know.

[IowaBison]

the alerus is not in the same league as the dome, the city of grand forks got ripped off on an over priced tin can

that being said, you guys have outstanding facilities for DI, but that's not what makes a team DI

(you also have the quality programs, coaches, players and infrastructure to be DI)

For those of you who continue to think you'll make a jump to an 'established conference'

why would they take you?

you have made zero commitment, actually in the last three years you've come up with every reason under the sun why a system similar to yours in many respects would be doomed!

no one affiliated with your university has made the slightest public overtures that could possibly construed as the possibility of you moving, yet the conspiracy theory runs rampent, the best proof you have is an article by McStupid in the Forum! and yet the rumors continue

[jimdahl]

no one affiliated with your university has made the slightest public overtures that could possibly construed as the possibility of you moving, yet the conspiracy theory runs rampent, the best proof you have is an article by McStupid in the Forum! and yet the rumors continue

Even I can field this one. The first post in and whole point of the existence of this thread was an interview in which RT was asked, "do you see a move to Division I in the future?" and he responded:

We're in the middle of strategic planning right now for our program, and that's one of the topics we're going to closely investigate.

That's why we're talking about the possibility of UND investigating a move to DI, because the Athletic Director said they are. If you think it's not a worthwhile topic for discussion, don't discuss it; no need to admonish us.

[IowaBison]

my fault,

i didn't take the report from the Dakota Student too seriously

why nothing in the Herald or Forum or television, hell even CBS for that matter

if this thing had legs there'd be real press involved, in fact upon rereading RT's comments, it doesn't sound, at least with any degree of certainty, like the slightest thing official is occuring

[Cratter]

my fault,

i didn't take the report from the Dakota Student too seriously

why nothing in the Herald or Forum or television, hell even CBS    for that matter

if this thing had legs there'd be real press involved, in fact upon rereading RT's comments, it doesn't sound, at least with any degree of certainty, like the slightest thing official is occuring

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A poster on this message board saw the Big Sky Commissioner at UND yesterday. To me that sounds like some "official" thing is occuring, maybe not an official move but could be some official strategic planning, like Roger Thomas was quoted in his university's newspaper.

[bisonguy]

Fulleton made a visit to NDSU years before the decision to move to DI was made. (1996 or 1998)

[Bisonfan1234]

The Big Sky has made it clear that Football/Volleyball, Basketball, and CC/ITrack/OTrack are their main sports.

Both UND and NDSU have great football facilities. I won't even argue on which is better. NDSU has more seats.

Both could definitely use field turf and get that astro "stabbing knives and shards of glass" turf the hell out of there.

As far as indoor goes, it's a necessity in the winter and early spring for outdoor sports. Obviously the fargodome can house ITrack and Football when needed but NDSU is also looking to either put a bubble or a structure over Dacotah field with new field turf.

UND claims they're working on something.

As far as Basketball and Volleyball go, everyone agrees that the Betty is the higher quality facility. Please remember, thought, that the BSA seats 7500 for those while the Betty seats 4000. Of course, the REA has the potential for 14000 if needed.

CC, who cares all they need is a long path to run on.

ITrack, apparently UND doesn't even have a facility. NDSU has the BSA, but flat ovals are history. The bend radius is simply too short for maximum speed to be maintained on a flat 200M oval. A banked oval is needed. So far, the best set up that I've seen is Idaho State's modular 200M/55M tracks that they set up in their football dome in the winter when football isn't in there yet. Also a perfect place to hold an indoor meet. Both schools' track programs could benefit greatly from such equipment.

OTrack, NDSU has a great outdoor facility with plenty of spectator seating. I think UND's is at old memorial stadium, so they also have plenty of spectator room and probably just as good of a facility.

That about does it. Overall I'd give the facilities edge to UND, but with a BSA remodel, NDSU would be pretty much right next to them in the BSC main sports.