BESC vs. REA

[the green team]

I put that together in 5 minutes. I would hope REA staff could put something together much better. I am pretty sure Men's Hockey leaves town on Wednesdays anyways so them practicing at nights Sun-Tues wouldn't be a change on weeks they are gone. Only change they would see would be during non-conference play if MBB had a game on a wednesday night and they converted it Tuesday. They'd have to practice in the olympic or maybe purpor those nights.......It's been done before.   I addressed womens hockey and conference issue in my reply to JDUB. You also wouldn't see 4 straight weeks of one team being at home under this schedule plan.

 

Trust me all of those schedule conflicts could easily be worked out with proper planning which all conferences do.

 

Like I said why doesn't UND just try and have UNI, NDSU, SDSU, and 3 Big Sky saturday games in the REA when both hockeys are gone next winter. If they can average 4000-5000 for those 6 games I think they should seriously think about hosting more or all D1 home games at the REA and putting a MBB locker room over there with access to the weight room. 

 

The recruiting returns off of a small change like that could be big time. I'd like to see UND make the NCAA tourney 3-4 times in the next 10 years. I don't think that happens by staying status quo with the Betty and waiting around for it to happen. Make it happen by giving MBB facility upgrades instantly that seperate them from their competitors. The ROI potential is their and if you don't see that I don't think you fully understand college athletics.

 

NSDU and USD are building new arenas and practice facilities. Think about how the Betty stacks up against those by itself and then think about how different the REA/Betty as a small game practice facility stack up against those facilities.

No, I'm sure the Men's hockey team leaves for most of their road trips on Thursdays. The reason, Coach Hakstol and Tim Hennessy are both at the Coach's Show most Wednesday nights before a road trip with the exception of 1 or 2 series. Basketball is not moving into the REA any time soon-most likely ever. Also there might be Title IX issues here, for example the women's hockey team may not be so easily moved to the Olympic rink as so many here claim. Conversely, if the Men's Basketball team gets to regularly play in the Ralph, Title IX may dicate the Women's team would also be given the opportunity to do so. Most teams like to practice in the venue they play their games in, I just don't see where Men's Hockey, Women's Hockey, WBB, and MBB would find any arrangement acceptable. I know that people are utilizing attendance numbers from the early years where basketball was frequently at the Ralph-- but I was nearly at every one of those contests, I would argue those numbers to be seriously inflated.

[the green team]

Playing BB in the Ralph doesn't get us anywhere fast...a better coach might though.

Oops................

At least know who even played on Tuesday night tho.

[darell1976]

Playing BB in the Ralph doesn't get us anywhere fast...a better coach might though.

Oops................

I agree. It's not the facility that wins games it's the players and coaches. UND was already good in 2001 when they moved into the Alerus and won a NC, what happened when you don't have a good coach but the same facility you get Bubba!! Is moving to the REA going to get this team to the dance faster than in the Betty? No!! I say play in the Betty unless it's a big DI team like Minnesota or Wisconsin or a rival game against NDSU or Montana. You aren't going to pack the REA playing a team like Sac St or Idaho St.

[82SiouxGuy]

I put that together in 5 minutes. I would hope REA staff could put something together much better. I am pretty sure Men's Hockey leaves town on Wednesdays anyways so them practicing at nights Sun-Tues wouldn't be a change on weeks they are gone. Only change they would see would be during non-conference play if MBB had a game on a wednesday night and they converted it Tuesday. They'd have to practice in the olympic or maybe purpor those nights.......It's been done before.   I addressed womens hockey and conference issue in my reply to JDUB. You also wouldn't see 4 straight weeks of one team being at home under this schedule plan.

 

Trust me all of those schedule conflicts could easily be worked out with proper planning which all conferences do.

 

Like I said why doesn't UND just try and have UNI, NDSU, SDSU, and 3 Big Sky saturday games in the REA when both hockeys are gone next winter. If they can average 4000-5000 for those 6 games I think they should seriously think about hosting more or all D1 home games at the REA and putting a MBB locker room over there with access to the weight room. 

 

The recruiting returns off of a small change like that could be big time. I'd like to see UND make the NCAA tourney 3-4 times in the next 10 years. I don't think that happens by staying status quo with the Betty and waiting around for it to happen. Make it happen by giving MBB facility upgrades instantly that seperate them from their competitors. The ROI potential is their and if you don't see that I don't think you fully understand college athletics.

 

NSDU and USD are building new arenas and practice facilities. Think about how the Betty stacks up against those by itself and then think about how different the REA/Betty as a small game practice facility stack up against those facilities. 

The scheduling issue isn't nearly as easy as you assume.  Getting leagues to work together on schedules is never easy.  UND couldn't get the WCHA and the NCC to work together in the old days, it isn't going to be any easier with new conferences plus adding women's sports into the mix.  There are a lot of years where UND hockey plays at home at least 3 weeks in a row, that isn't going to change.  They play 2 weeks in a row every year, usually multiple times. 

 

I disagree with your premise on how much moving to REA would affect recruiting either coaches or players.  The money you want them to spend on upgrades and new facilities to move basketball to the REA would be much better used to upgrade the Betty into a better facility, or potentially a start on building a new facility if you want to think big.  Build a basketball facility and use the Betty for volleyball, practices, and other purposes.  REA is still going to be a hockey arena, you would impress basketball recruits more if they had a real home that would give them an advantage on the court.  NDSU isn't building a new facility, they are renovating a building that hadn't changed a whole lot in more than 40 years, not a comparison at all. The Betty is 10 years old.  And even if you average 6,000 in the REA, you still have half the building, the entire upper deck, that is empty and there is no good way to fill that space to make a great atmosphere. 

 

You keep accusing people of not having vision or understanding potential.  We just disagree with how to accomplish those goals and don't think your plan is the way to go.

[bincitysioux]

 

 

Like I said why doesn't UND just try and have UNI, NDSU, SDSU, and 3 Big Sky saturday games in the REA when both hockeys are gone next winter. If they can average 4000-5000 for those 6 games I think they should seriously think about hosting more or all D1 home games at the REA and putting a MBB locker room over there with access to the weight room. 

 

 

 

As was mentioned before, they did this 2004-05.  They played 6 games in the REA, and they averaged close to 4,000 per game.  Obviously after evaluating the situation over the course of the season, REA/UND decided it was a model not worth pursuing.  What you are suggesting has already been done.

 

Try to keep up............

[nodakhoops]

The scheduling issue isn't nearly as easy as you assume.  Getting leagues to work together on schedules is never easy.  UND couldn't get the WCHA and the NCC to work together in the old days, it isn't going to be any easier with new conferences plus adding women's sports into the mix.  There are a lot of years where UND hockey plays at home at least 3 weeks in a row, that isn't going to change.  They play 2 weeks in a row every year, usually multiple times. 

 

I disagree with your premise on how much moving to REA would affect recruiting either coaches or players.  The money you want them to spend on upgrades and new facilities to move basketball to the REA would be much better used to upgrade the Betty into a better facility, or potentially a start on building a new facility if you want to think big.  Build a basketball facility and use the Betty for volleyball, practices, and other purposes.  REA is still going to be a hockey arena, you would impress basketball recruits more if they had a real home that would give them an advantage on the court.  NDSU isn't building a new facility, they are renovating a building that hadn't changed a whole lot in more than 40 years, not a comparison at all. The Betty is 10 years old.  And even if you average 6,000 in the REA, you still have half the building, the entire upper deck, that is empty and there is no good way to fill that space to make a great atmosphere. 

 

You keep accusing people of not having vision or understanding potential.  We just disagree with how to accomplish those goals and don't think your plan is the way to go.

 

 

I actually agree with you that giving the betty a facelift or new facility would be the way to go but what is the most cost effective have to grow men's bball. That was the basis of my argument. UND needs to keep up with the competition facility wise for recruiting or we fall further down the list and I don't see attendance improvement or NCAAs without at least trying to keep up.

 

a new BBall facility - 20-30 million (not happening)

 

renovate the Betty - 4-5 million (not happening until after IPF phase two is done 5-6 years maybe?)

 

REA lockerroom for MBB, weight room access, and 5-6/most D1 games in the Ralph - 500,000-700,000 maybe 1 million...That would be for the locker room and the converstion costs the first few years until attendance built up. maybe 

 

 

With IPF phase two going on BBall fundraising falls further down the list. If someone has a better way to improve facilities to help raise bballs profile I am all for it. Just think this is the quickest and easiest way to give MBB some of the best facilities in the country. I agree with everyone that this is very unlikely to happen, but I wanted to at least present an option I thought is feasable. Appreciate the debate fellas.

 

[82SiouxGuy]

 

 

 

I actually agree with you that giving the betty a facelift or new facility would be the way to go but what is the most cost effective have to grow men's bball. That was the basis of my argument. UND needs to keep up with the competition facility wise for recruiting or we fall further down the list and I don't see attendance improvement or NCAAs without at least trying to keep up.

 

a new BBall facility - 20-30 million (not happening)

 

renovate the Betty - 4-5 million (not happening until after IPF phase two is done 5-6 years maybe?)

 

REA lockerroom for MBB, weight room access, and 5-6/most D1 games in the Ralph - 500,000-700,000 maybe 1 million...That would be for the locker room and the converstion costs the first few years until attendance built up. maybe 

 

 

With IPF phase two going on BBall fundraising falls further down the list. If someone has a better way to improve facilities to help raise bballs profile I am all for it. Just think this is the quickest and easiest way to give MBB some of the best facilities in the country. I agree with everyone that this is very unlikely to happen, but I wanted to at least present an option I thought is feasable. Appreciate the debate fellas.

 

 

I believe that the locker room remodel done for the hockey team was well over a million this year.  The things you are describing are probably going to cost at least as much.  And it is a bandaid, it isn't a long term solution.

 

The IPF is being built by UND.  The Engelstad trust owns the REA and the Betty.  They have covered all construction costs so far for the facilities out of revenue (after the original donation paid for the original building).  I don't see the Alumni Foundation/UND spending money on the REA facilities.  REA would need to approve and spend the money to do either the REA locker room remodel or work on the Betty.  Depending on how much work they decided to do, it could cost much less than $5 million to make the Betty a nice facility.

[Cratter]

The REA aint got no room for basketball locker rooms. Didnt they just spend money expanding for storage.

[UNDBIZ]

The REA aint got no room for basketball locker rooms. Didnt they just spend money expanding for storage.

 

There are multiple "less nice" locker rooms in the Ralph that are only used for intramurals and tournaments which could be renovated.

[Boomer 40AAA]

Its not a real long walk from the Betty to the Ralf thru the Olympic rink.

[bincitysioux]

In a previous discussion about basketball in REA, DakotaDan once posted a rendering he made (which I cannot find right now) that placed the basketball court right up against either the North or South permanent seats in REA.  The scoreboard would not be centered over the basketball court, but it basically created a horseshoe around the court using the REA's permanent seating on 3 sides, with portable bleachers on the open end. 

 

If basketball were played in the Ralph on a semi regular basis, I think a format like this would be the way to go.  If you had a big curtain to hang behind the portable bleachers, you'd probably reduce capacity to around 8,000 or so creating a more intimate feel, and placing fans closer to the action.

 

Still, I am of the opinion that some minor upgrades to the Betty would be far more ideal, and realistic.

[UND-FB-FAN]

In a previous discussion about basketball in REA, DakotaDan once posted a rendering he made (which I cannot find right now) that placed the basketball court right up against either the North or South permanent seats in REA. The scoreboard would not be centered over the basketball court, but it basically created a horseshoe around the court using the REA's permanent seating on 3 sides, with portable bleachers on the open end.

If basketball were played in the Ralph on a semi regular basis, I think a format like this would be the way to go. If you had a big curtain to hang behind the portable bleachers, you'd probably reduce capacity to around 8,000 or so creating a more intimate feel, and placing fans closer to the action.

Still, I am of the opinion that some minor upgrades to the Betty would be far more ideal, and realistic.

Upgrading the Betty is a must, so when is it going to happen?

Video boards for score, player stats, advertisements, and replays are necessary. Also, larger bleachers at the ends of the court to create a more "enclosed" setting.

These things need to happen because high schools are starting to surpass the Betty in amenities.

[bincitysioux]

These things need to happen because high schools are starting to surpass the Betty in amenities.

Well that's a bit of a stretch.

[niouxsiouxfan]

Well that's a bit of a stretch.

not really. Some very nice high school gyms out there! Some are putting in video boards on walls. Seen a transportable one the other night.

[nodakhoops]

In a previous discussion about basketball in REA, DakotaDan once posted a rendering he made (which I cannot find right now) that placed the basketball court right up against either the North or South permanent seats in REA.  The scoreboard would not be centered over the basketball court, but it basically created a horseshoe around the court using the REA's permanent seating on 3 sides, with portable bleachers on the open end. 

 

If basketball were played in the Ralph on a semi regular basis, I think a format like this would be the way to go.  If you had a big curtain to hang behind the portable bleachers, you'd probably reduce capacity to around 8,000 or so creating a more intimate feel, and placing fans closer to the action.

 

Still, I am of the opinion that some minor upgrades to the Betty would be far more ideal, and realistic.

 

 

I think that is an interesting idea. My points of this is UND Basketball needs facility upgrades to stay competitive and like I mentioned I think utilizing REA is the most affordable option. I also would hardly call the REA (nicest arena in the country) a bandaid like 82 called it. A bandaid was rushing the construction of the Betty to accomodate World JR's. They should've held out and waited to raise 5-10 million extra and did it right the first time. 

 

IMHO here is what UND basketball needs to stay competitive in basketball recruiting over the next 5-10 years to stay competitive with schools we recruit against.

 

- Betty Upgrades = video board, video scorers table, tradition decorations around the arena like the Ralph, more permanent seating, suites, nicer club lounge, nicer players lounge, locker room updates, weight room updates. 

 

- 2-3 court practice facility connected to the Betty - If you do more permanent seating you will lose practice courts. UND needs a practice facility similar to what NDSU and USD are building. REA could also start hosting a lot of youth basketball tourneys then for extra revenue.

 

In my opinion if UND doesn't have a plan for that in 3-4 years and built in 10 some of you who think UND should be in the NCAA tourney every year should lower your expectations. My plan before discussed how I thought the REA and Betty would serve all of those functions right now at a decent price.

 

Now REA just built a addition on the betty for 1 million dollars for hockey net storage......where do you think their priorities are? UND needs to finish IPF phase 2, that should be priority number 1. Where does UND Basketball fall?? 

 

I really don't care how it gets done, but IMHO this is what needs to happen for basketball to stay competitive and be in the running for the NCAAs every year. Attendance needs to increase, but I think these upgrades and a focus on basketball does that because the product no doubt gets better. 

 

Whether it's updating the Betty, a new arena, or moving MBB permanently to the Ralph and giving the Betty all to WBB I really don't care. I would just like to see a plan for basketball that keeps us competitive moving forward and grows UND Basketball. Making the NCAA tourney in Men's BBall should be priority #1 or #2 for UND right besides winning the NCAA national title in hockey. #3 is probably making the FCS playoffs and #4 making the WBB tourney. The exposure multiple MBB NCAA tourney appearances gives a university is unreal. NDSU got more exposure beating Oklahoma last year than UND got with 7 national hockey titles........I would like to see that for UND someday.

[The Sicatoka]

Crazy talk, but doesn't Alerus Center configure for basketball? 

 

Why not come up with a plan where you spend the money on upgrading the play, which should raise attendance to capacity and beyond of the present facility, and then move to the next size up facility. 

[bincitysioux]

Crazy talk, but doesn't Alerus Center configure for basketball?

Why not come up with a plan where you spend the money on upgrading the play, which should raise attendance to capacity and beyond of the present facility, and then move to the next size up facility.

If the Betty is not lavish enough for basketball, the Alerus certainly won't cut it...........

[The Sicatoka]

But it has video boards!

 

My dream is that UND BB starts going over cap in The Betty and they decide to "bowl out" the facility. Then again, that shorts the available practice space during the VB/BB season overlap. 

[bincitysioux]

But it has video boards!

My dream is that UND BB starts going over cap in The Betty and they decide to "bowl out" the facility. Then again, that shorts the available practice space during the VB/BB season overlap.

I would like to see permanent seating at the North end of the Betty, creating a horseshoe, and then double the size of the portable risers on the south end. This should increase capacity to around 4,000 and you would only lose one practice court and maintain the functionality of the south overhead doors.

[Siouxperfan7]

So I think this has been brough up before, but basketball at the Ralph for non NDSU games has already been done.  If the UND athletic department felt like it was beneficial to keep doing it, they would have kept doing it.  In my opinion, basketball games at the Ralph are awful for atmosphere.  Unless you have a team like NDSU, it is a dead enviroment.  Pack out the Betty for games and get that place rocking.  If the demand for tickets is consistently esceeding what the Betty can provide, then we can have a discussion.  But until then, keep games at the Betty.