tho0505 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 .........Duncan better than Oshie and Taylor??...Oh,please... Are you serious? I had to laugh outloud that you would actually put Oshie over Duncan. Yeah Oshie was a great player for UND, but I'd take 4 other skaters before taking Oshie. Taylor should probably make the list, but Duncan was a 4 year starter AND a Hobey winner. How can't you, as a Sioux fan, put a Hobey winner on your list? More importantly was his leadership that he brought all 4 years. That's why Chay Genoway makes my list, not his offensive defensivemen ability, but his leadership that pushes it over the edge. Now was Oshie a "better" player, more skill? That's debatable, but probably. That's why he's in the NHL. But of All Time Greats, a Hobey winner needs to make everyone's list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tho0505 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 This topic about Kristo is just crazy. He's had 3 years of double digit goals (thats on a team for 2 yrs that had the Frattin line ahead of him), this year he'll easily break 20 goals. He's an elite talent and arguably the most creative/skilled player in college hockey right now. To say that he isn't a good "finisher," seriously its college hockey with elite goalies. The puck doesn't allows find the net, anyone who has played knows that. With 60+ goals and 88+ assists in his college career. He doesn't dive, or take dumb penalties, I'd say we're lucky to have him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSIOUX Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Kristo has turned into a hell of a 2 way hockey player. Took a little while longer maybe than some hoped but he's one of most dynamic players in the nation. This being said, Danny can separate himself from a list of sioux greats who have gone on without a natty. Parise, Bochenski, zajac, Toews, Oshie, Duncan, stafford, Greene. On the Duncan Oshie debate..Duncan was a great Sioux and you can't discount a hobey. That being said I would take Oshie's game over his any day anytime! Duncan is one of my all time fav sioux and he will tell you he was the 3rd best player on that line. Not even close. Again not a knock as some will take it. These are great lists! Like reading these debates. Damn we have had a lot of great players come thorough grand forks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 You just can't compare eras. The most glaring thing you see when watching old highlights is how terrible the goalies were. For that reason, Frattin's 36 goals were to me a bigger accomplishment than Joyce's 52. I also think if you transplanted yesterday's stars onto today's teams, they wouldn't be able to keep up, as guys are much faster and stronger. That said, the only fair comparison is how they looked compared to their peers at the time, and by that measure the names posted here deserve to be considered all-time greats. Hrkac certainly made people look sillier than anyone else I can think of. Don't forget that those old timers would be using the same state of the art gear and training as the new guys. I can't remember who deserves to quoted for his but its about guys playing in different eras 'skills is skills' if you were good you'd still be good a vise versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Are you serious? I had to laugh outloud that you would actually put Oshie over Duncan. Yeah Oshie was a great player for UND, but I'd take 4 other skaters before taking Oshie. Taylor should probably make the list, but Duncan was a 4 year starter AND a Hobey winner. How can't you, as a Sioux fan, put a Hobey winner on your list? More importantly was his leadership that he brought all 4 years. That's why Chay Genoway makes my list, not his offensive defensivemen ability, but his leadership that pushes it over the edge. Now was Oshie a "better" player, more skill? That's debatable, but probably. That's why he's in the NHL. But of All Time Greats, a Hobey winner needs to make everyone's list. Maybe because he was spoon fed goals by the two NHL all stars on his line. Oshie is far and away the better player. Duncan sat in his spot and sniped and that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodbuster Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 This topic about Kristo is just crazy. He's had 3 years of double digit goals (thats on a team for 2 yrs that had the Frattin line ahead of him), this year he'll easily break 20 goals. He's an elite talent and arguably the most creative/skilled player in college hockey right now. To say that he isn't a good "finisher," seriously its college hockey with elite goalies. The puck doesn't allows find the net, anyone who has played knows that. With 60+ goals and 88+ assists in his college career. He doesn't dive, or take dumb penalties, I'd say we're lucky to have him. I'm a huge fan of any of the kids who stayed 4 years when they easily could've bolted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Are you serious? I had to laugh outloud that you would actually put Oshie over Duncan. Yeah Oshie was a great player for UND, but I'd take 4 other skaters before taking Oshie. Taylor should probably make the list, but Duncan was a 4 year starter AND a Hobey winner. How can't you, as a Sioux fan, put a Hobey winner on your list? More importantly was his leadership that he brought all 4 years. That's why Chay Genoway makes my list, not his offensive defensivemen ability, but his leadership that pushes it over the edge. Now was Oshie a "better" player, more skill? That's debatable, but probably. That's why he's in the NHL. But of All Time Greats, a Hobey winner needs to make everyone's list. No offense, but what did Chay lead us to? Chay has no place on an all-time roster. Good player and good leader but we've been fortunate to have A LOT of good players and good leaders through the years. Steenson was a 3-time first team All-American and captain of a National Championship team...not even a mention. This list should be reserved for the GREAT players. Sorry, but Chay is good, not great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 So, I'm taking a little different tact to this. I am thinking that if every Sioux player in history showed up at the Ralph for a tryout, and I was assembling a team with the goal of winning a championship, who would I select. My criteria is skill as displayed in college and/or professional ranks, attitude, etc. My forwards are: Jonathan Toews with Zach Parise and Dave Christian Troy Murray with Dixon Ward and Greg Johnson Tony Hrkac with Bobby Joyce and Jason Blake TJ Oshie with Jim Archibald and Carey Eades (Energy line) scratched but on team: Travis Zajac, Steve Johnson, Doug Smail Last cut: Ryan Duncan, Jeff Panzer, Phil Sykes, Russ Romaniuk, Mark Taylor Defense: Craig Ludwig and James Patrick Matt Greene and Scott Sandelin Mike Commodore and Curtis Murphy Scratched but on team: Ian Kidd and Travis Roche Last cut: Murray Baron, Taylor Chorney Goaltending: Belfour Casey scratched: Goerhing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tho0505 Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 No offense, but what did Chay lead us to? Chay has no place on an all-time roster. Good player and good leader but we've been fortunate to have A LOT of good players and good leaders through the years. Steenson was a 3-time first team All-American and captain of a National Championship team...not even a mention. This list should be reserved for the GREAT players. Sorry, but Chay is good, not great. He never won a title, does that not mean he's an all time great? Neither did Greg Johnson, Toews, Duncan, Parise, Frattin, Ward...... That doesn't mean that they're not great. He won tons of titles (granted not NCs) but lead us to a lot of success. Just fell short of the ultimate team prize. Still would make my list, if that's your criteria I'd liked to see your list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 So, I'm taking a little different tact to this. I am thinking that if every Sioux player in history showed up at the Ralph for a tryout, and I was assembling a team with the goal of winning a championship, who would I select. My criteria is skill as displayed in college and/or professional ranks, attitude, etc. My forwards are: Jonathan Toews with Zach Parise and Dave Christian Troy Murray with Dixon Ward and Greg Johnson Tony Hrkac with Bobby Joyce and Jason Blake TJ Oshie with Jim Archibald and Carey Eades (Energy line) scratched but on team: Travis Zajac, Steve Johnson, Doug Smail Last cut: Ryan Duncan, Jeff Panzer, Phil Sykes, Russ Romaniuk, Mark Taylor Defense: Craig Ludwig and James Patrick Matt Greene and Scott Sandelin Mike Commodore and Curtis Murphy Scratched but on team: Ian Kidd and Travis Roche Last cut: Murray Baron, Taylor Chorney Goaltending: Belfour Casey scratched: Goerhing I'll take Mark Taylor over Jonathon Toews if we are just looking at what they did at UND...the 'King' trumps Captain Serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 He never won a title, does that not mean he's an all time great? Neither did Greg Johnson, Toews, Duncan, Parise, Frattin, Ward...... That doesn't mean that they're not great. He won tons of titles (granted not NCs) but lead us to a lot of success. Just fell short of the ultimate team prize. Still would make my list, if that's your criteria I'd liked to see your list. Yeah, but the problem is, you said leadership is what put him on the list. What made him such a better leader than any other Captain the Sioux have had? In my opinion, he was a good, not great player. That's all fine and dandy that you mention, and I quote: "Greg Johnson, Toews, Duncan, Parise, Frattin, Ward......" ....but where did I mention those as players that should be on the roster? Just to save you some time, I didn't mention those players, so why are you bringing them up? I'm not saying that Genoway was a bad player, but if you think he's one of the six best defensemen to ever wear a Sioux sweater, I think you are pretty ignorant on the history of the Fighting Sioux. How can Genoway compare to Bill Steenson's three All-American awards, an NCAA All-Tournament team selection, and Captain of a National Championship winning team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'll take Mark Taylor over Jonathon Toews if we are just looking at what they did at UND...the 'King' trumps Captain Serious! Lots of changes if we are just talking what they accomplished at UND. I based mine on a fictitious tryout....otherwise is it a career or great season and how do we compare eras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchmaker49 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yeah, but the problem is, you said leadership is what put him on the list. What made him such a better leader than any other Captain the Sioux have had? In my opinion, he was a good, not great player. That's all fine and dandy that you mention, and I quote: "Greg Johnson, Toews, Duncan, Parise, Frattin, Ward......" ....but where did I mention those as players that should be on the roster? Just to save you some time, I didn't mention those players, so why are you bringing them up? I'm not saying that Genoway was a bad player, but if you think he's one of the six best defensemen to ever wear a Sioux sweater, I think you are pretty ignorant on the history of the Fighting Sioux. How can Genoway compare to Bill Steenson's three All-American awards, an NCAA All-Tournament team selection, and Captain of a National Championship winning team? I'm with you here. I would not even put him n the top 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZSIOUX Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'm with you here. I would not even put him n the top 20. Agree, genoway is way down the list of great UND d men. He was on my new Ralph era team but wouldn't crack any top North Dakota teams going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I just realized that I had "Taylor" Chorney as last cut...I meant his dad...Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tho0505 Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yeah, but the problem is, you said leadership is what put him on the list. What made him such a better leader than any other Captain the Sioux have had? In my opinion, he was a good, not great player. That's all fine and dandy that you mention, and I quote: "Greg Johnson, Toews, Duncan, Parise, Frattin, Ward......" ....but where did I mention those as players that should be on the roster? Just to save you some time, I didn't mention those players, so why are you bringing them up? I'm not saying that Genoway was a bad player, but if you think he's one of the six best defensemen to ever wear a Sioux sweater, I think you are pretty ignorant on the history of the Fighting Sioux. How can Genoway compare to Bill Steenson's three All-American awards, an NCAA All-Tournament team selection, and Captain of a National Championship winning team? You don't need to come insult my intelligent on the history of the Fighting Sioux, I would just take him over numerous defensemen. It's opinion and I would take him based on leadership. Steenson was a great player for UND in an era that it was far easier to win a title then it is now. My point is you can't make a cut just because a player didn't win a title. What's funny is Chay would make every list on here if he had won a title. In this age you can't define a players greatest and leadership just on the fact of NCs. Now coaches are a different story, Hak is a great coach, but will never make it as a legend until he wins a title, simply put. So again, lets see your roster. I'm excited to see the older Sioux players, as for me I like my roster of 80s. 90s, and 2000s because UND is just that deep in history. Should I include some 50s, 60s, and 70s, sure, but I like my roster just fine. Rip on the Namenko/Bombarbir selection, not the Chay selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tho0505 Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 In my opinion, he was a good, not great player. That's all fine and dandy that you mention, and I quote: "Greg Johnson, Toews, Duncan, Parise, Frattin, Ward......" ....but where did I mention those as players that should be on the roster? Just to save you some time, I didn't mention those players, so why are you bringing them up? I mentioned those players because your ripping on his leadership and lack of a title. Now would those players make your list? Johnson his senior and junior year didn't even have a winning record, but he's gotta be on the list of all time Sioux greats. Chay has 2 frozen fours, 2 broadmoor, 2 MacNaughton. I'd say that's good leadership in the most competitive era of college hockey ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Great thread topic......My all time team.....hmmmm.....20 man roster......ohh boy..... F-Tony Hrkac, Zach Parise, Jason Blake, Lee Goren, Matt Frattin, Ryan Duncan, Jim Archibald, Jeff Panzer, Troy Murray, Steve Johnson, Bob Joyce, T.J. Oshie. D-Matt Greene, Mike Commodore, James Patrick, Travis Roche, Nick Namenko, Curtis Murphy. G-Karl Goehring, Eddie Balfour, Phil Lamoureax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I mentioned those players because your ripping on his leadership and lack of a title. Now would those players make your list? Johnson his senior and junior year didn't even have a winning record, but he's gotta be on the list of all time Sioux greats. Chay has 2 frozen fours, 2 broadmoor, 2 MacNaughton. I'd say that's good leadership in the most competitive era of college hockey ever. I'm on my phone so I'll keep this short until later, but Chay has been to three Frozen Fours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bypolairxam Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Maybe because he was spoon fed goals by the two NHL all stars on his line. Oshie is far and away the better player. Duncan sat in his spot and sniped and that's about it. ....Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Ryan Duncan was/is an excellent hockey player and had a couple great seasons. His best season by far was created by who he played with. He had to be great to deliver what he delivered. Bottom line...Jonathan Toews was obviously the best player on that team...he was the youngest and has proven his greatness in the NHL and in world play. Duncs was one of the best players in college hockey. Toewser is one of the best players in the world. Osh is also elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 No love for 70's players since the teams were unsuccessful at both the WCHA and national scale, but I'll throw out some of the best from that era: Jim Cahoon, Earl Anderson, Al Hangsleben, Dennis Johnson, Roger Lameroux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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