impact of new conference on TV broadcast

[82SiouxGuy]

People, you are all making this more complex than it really is. There are 2 kinds of sports networks in play, national and regional. National networks are channels like ESPN, Fox, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, etc. Their focus is on national sports or events. They broadcast events from all over the country. They are carried on cable systems all over the country along with DirecTV and Dish. They do not focus on any geographic region. They normally sign deals with conferences and professional sports leagues, not individual teams and schools.

Regional networks focus mainly on teams (schools, etc.) within their normal viewing region. They are mainly carried on cable systems within that region where those teams are popular. They can sometimes be available on special tiers on other cable systems along with DirecTV and Dish. They normally sign deals with individual teams and schools.

Most rights contracts have regional rights and national rights. For the NCHC, CBS Sports has purchased the national rights. On the nights that they are going to broadcast NCHC teams, none of the NCHC teams can allow their regional sports networks to broadcast games. On all other nights, the regional networks can broadcast. And they can broadcast wherever those regional networks are available. That includes DirecTV, Dish and any cable systems where those regional networks are carried. Their viewership areas are not impacted by the national contract.

The regional contracts do not have specific geographic limits. Midco is working to expand the number of cable systems that purchase the sports network. I know that they have been talking with cable systems in the Twin Cities (so people in the Twin Cities may want to contact their cable systems and encourage them to purchase the Midco Sports Network). They are working with systems throughout both Dakotas, Minnesota, Western Wisconsin and probably in some other fringe areas. Midco could contract with a Canadian company to broadcast games if they found a willing partner. Midco could sell the network to cable systems in LA, or Miami or Boston if anyone wanted to buy it. That is why Jayson and others keep saying to be patient because the landscape will change before the first game next season, and may change more after that. Just because Midco is showing their sports channel in specific markets right now doesn't mean that they won't be showing in other markets next year. The FCS deal ending may convince some cable systems to add Midco if those cable systems think they can increase viewership.

CBS Sports is also hoping that the contract with the NCHC helps expand their viewership. They hope that this content will help them expand the number of cable systems that will carry the network, and hope that the cable systems will either move them to a better tier or in some way help them increase the number of homes that get the network. So again, the places where the CBS Sports network is available right now may not be the same as the where the network will be available next fall.

As far as the FCS deal goes, that deal was reported to be only through this season. There was nothing in writing for the future. Fox decided that they didn't want most of the other UND sports this year, so there is no guarantee that they would even want to broadcast the games in future years. And as far as we know, UND did not get paid for that deal. UND also made little or nothing on the WDAZ deal. The intention was to increase exposure because no one was willing to pay for the rights at that time. This has changed. CBS Sports is paying something for the NCHC rights (I haven't heard any numbers) and Midco is paying $200,000 per year for 5 years for the regional rights. In the upcoming years both UND and the NCHC will profit from the television rights whereas in past years neither UND nor the WCHA made any kind of significant money from the rights. I am sure that these dollars are an important part of why the NCHC signed with CBS Sports and I know that Midco offered more than WDAZ.

[yababy8]

People, you are all making this more complex than it really is. There are 2 kinds of sports networks in play, national and regional.

I'm not sure if isn't just as complex as is being discussed. The issue does not lie in the 'regional vs national' consideration. The issue is how games are contractually restricted outside the region when the 'regional' network's broadcast is shown outside of its region. Example is when FSN broadcasts the Timberwolves games they get blacked out for Direct TV viewers who are not located within the FSN region. So there are obviously some coverage contracts which preclude "national viewing of events being broadcast on regional networks airing nationally. These contractual restrictions are paramount to fee based viewing of things like NHL and NBA pass on Direct TV, If they didn't exist everyone would just get the sports pack and watch what they want for $12 a month in lieu of the retarded fee's they dish out for the ability to watch "regional" broadcasts of their favorite team when they live 1000 miles away.

... I think this is what people are wondering? If the contract has this in it?

What I would say is we need to see the contract. Do we not have the right to see contracts which the public university is a part of?? or is it the same concept as the NCAA where the NCHC is a private organization and it is their contract so they are private. Kind of reminds me of the public actor argument I seem to recall from some other obscure topic on this forum... hmmmm?? I digress..

[82SiouxGuy]

I'm not sure if isn't just as complex as is being discussed. The issue does not lie in the 'regional vs national' consideration. The issue is how games are contractually restricted outside the region when the 'regional' network's broadcast is shown outside of its region. Example is when FSN broadcasts the Timberwolves games they get blacked out for Direct TV viewers who are not located within the FSN region. So there are obviously some coverage contracts which preclude "national viewing of events being broadcast on regional networks airing nationally. These contractual restrictions are paramount to fee based viewing of things like NHL and NBA pass on Direct TV, If they didn't exist everyone would just get the sports pack and watch what they want for $12 a month in lieu of the retarded fee's they dish out for the ability to watch "regional" broadcasts of their favorite team when they live 1000 miles away.

... I think this is what people are wondering? If the contract has this in it?

What I would say is we need to see the contract. Do we not have the right to see contracts which the public university is a part of?? or is it the same concept as the NCAA where the NCHC is a private organization and it is their contract so they are private. Kind of reminds me of the public actor argument I seem to recall from some other obscure topic on this forum... hmmmm?? I digress..

The difference between the UND-NCHC example versus the Timberwolves-NBA example is the fact that there are contracts with the NBA for ALL national broadcasts. It has been reported that the CBS Sports-NCHC contract gives CBS rights to a specific number of games and gives regional networks the rights to the other games. The fact that Midco is actively working to get their channel on DirecTV and Dish on a national basis is proof to me that they believe they will not be restricted.

My guess is that the NCHC does not have to reveal the specifics of the contract because not all members are public schools. Colorado College is a private school. They are a party to the contract with CBS Sports. Their privacy rights are probably protected. That has been the case with other conferences. If all of the schools are public there is a better chance of the conference opening their books. Conferences with private school members usually don't have to reveal as much.

[fightingsioux4life]

I think everybody just needs to take a deep breath and wait to see what kind of network Midco builds. I think it will be first-class when it is finished. Then everybody can go back, read all these negative comments and laugh about it.

[yababy8]

The difference between the UND-NCHC example versus the Timberwolves-NBA example is the fact that there are contracts with the NBA for ALL national broadcasts. It has been reported that the CBS Sports-NCHC contract gives CBS rights to a specific number of games and gives regional networks the rights to the other games. The fact that Midco is actively working to get their channel on DirecTV and Dish on a national basis is proof to me that they believe they will not be restricted.

Seems like a reasonable deduction to me.. Without seeing the contract I have no basis for assumption either way. I was only pointing out the concerns of others as I interpreted them.

[yababy8]

My guess is that the NCHC does not have to reveal the specifics of the contract because not all members are public schools. Colorado College is a private school. They are a party to the contract with CBS Sports. Their privacy rights are probably protected. That has been the case with other conferences. If all of the schools are public there is a better chance of the conference opening their books. Conferences with private school members usually don't have to reveal as much.

I would guess that is the case but as I think about it ideologically, I'm very surprised that it has been established that way, historically speaking.

It seems ass backwards. How a public institution, which is otherwise bound by duty to keep its records open as it should being a 'public' entity, can somehow be released from these bounds by simply including a private entity as part of a group contract.

The following seems much more reasonable to me:

That the private entity through engagement in a contract with a public institution would by virtue of doing so accept the public entities public disclosure obligation. In other words it is not allowable to seek the waiver of the public obligation of a public entity for any reason. The private entity would have to accept this as part of the engagement. i.e. public entity laws are not negotiable, releasable or for sale..

I'm just say'n...

[southpaw]

The difference between the UND-NCHC example versus the Timberwolves-NBA example is the fact that there are contracts with the NBA for ALL national broadcasts. It has been reported that the CBS Sports-NCHC contract gives CBS rights to a specific number of games and gives regional networks the rights to the other games. The fact that Midco is actively working to get their channel on DirecTV and Dish on a national basis is proof to me that they believe they will not be restricted.

That is correct. The NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL and other leagues have agreements with DirecTV for airing games nationally. It allows DirecTV to sell the games at a premium, like they do with NHL Center Ice. That is why the games are blacked out because of Center Ice, not because of the regional/national debate.

[Frozen4sioux]

I think everybody just needs to take a deep breath and wait to see what kind of network Midco builds. I think it will be first-class when it is finished. Then everybody can go back, read all these negative comments and laugh about it.

The problem in hoping for midco to build a network is the other content they can get...

I mean how much content can they package that a dish would even want? The Sioux following is a good draw but I don't know what market nationally there is for south Dakota west region girls hockey broadcasts.

[yababy8]

That is why the games are blacked out because of Center Ice, not because of the regional/national debate.

Of course the condition for black out is not derived from "the regional/national debate." I'm not sure how that even makes sense.

The relevance here is that there can be- therefore could be a condition in a contract that precludes showing a game which IS BEING broadcast on a regional network outside of the region in a case where the regional network is a part of a national channel choice on a given cable provider.

Now maybe you or others are privy to how the NCHC CBS sports men's hockey contract is written and therefore you know the answer to this question. If so you should help us all by disclosing such. If not then I think it is a fair question to ask.

...As I think 82Sioux stated, if Midco is indeed courting non regional cable providers like direct TV, Dish or Comcast to pick-up their channel, then that strongly suggest there is no such blackout clause applicable here. But they also could be missing the fine print. I have seen stranger things happen in my life and after all Midco was not a party in the contract negotiations that I am aware of.

[82SiouxGuy]

Of course the condition for black out is not derived from "the regional/national debate." I'm not sure how that even makes sense.

The relevance here is that there can be- therefore could be a condition in a contract that precludes showing a game which IS BEING broadcast on a regional network outside of the region in a case where the regional network is a part of a national channel choice on a given cable provider.

Now maybe you or others are privy to how the NCHC CBS sports men's hockey contract is written and therefore you know the answer to this question. If so you should help us all by disclosing such. If not then I think it is a fair question to ask.

...As I think 82Sioux stated, if Midco is indeed courting non regional cable providers like direct TV, Dish or Comcast to pick-up their channel, then that strongly suggest there is no such blackout clause applicable here. But they also could be missing the fine print. I have seen stranger things happen in my life and after all Midco was not a party in the contract negotiations that I am aware of.

Midco has a copy of the contract. They need to have that copy so that they don't overstep the restrictions within that contract. They know what their limitations are and what they aren't. As a matter of fact, they understand the contract much better than most of us could even if we read it.

[82SiouxGuy]

The problem in hoping for midco to build a network is the other content they can get...

I mean how much content can they package that a dish would even want? The Sioux following is a good draw but I don't know what market nationally there is for south Dakota west region girls hockey broadcasts.

ESPN started with similar content. So did Fox Sports North. Midco is going to build their network on college sports in the region, and appeal to fans of those schools around the country. UND was their choice for the lead, they are going to build on that. You have to start somewhere.

[watchmaker49]

Midco has a copy of the contract. They need to have that copy so that they don't overstep the restrictions within that contract. They know what their limitations are and what they aren't. As a matter of fact, they understand the contract much better than most of us could even if we read it.

That is interesting since Jayson did not even seem to know what is all in the contract.

[Frozen4sioux]

That is interesting since Jayson did not even seem to know what is all in the contract.

To be fair I would doubt that if Jason knows the details he would be at

Liberty to disclose that on a message board... I would think that would be a reasonable assumption

[watchmaker49]

To be fair I would doubt that if Jason knows the details he would be at

Liberty to disclose that on a message board... I would think that would be a reasonable assumption

True.

[Jayson Hajdu]

While I have an understanding of our media contracts, I have neither been involved with the negotiations, nor I have a gone through the NCHC television contract with a fine-tooth comb. That will have to wait until after the season for me.

But Frozen4Sioux is correct: there are some details I am simply not at liberty to discuss publicly, which I indicated in an earlier post. That goes for all workings of our department, not just the league's television contract.

[82SiouxGuy]

Midco has to have access to the parts of the contract that would affect how they do business. They have to know what their limitations are, and what their potential is. Otherwise they could go out and sign contracts with other companies, like DirecTV, and then find out that something in that contract conflicts with the CBS Sports contract with the NCHC. So Midco understands who they can contract with, and for what services. But Midco probably doesn't have access to the financial portions of the contract.

[Anderson2200]

In case anyone cares, I emailed CABLEONE yesterday, and whoever responded either intentionally would not speak to next season, or misread my question altogether. I replied emphasizing my concern with next season as the Fox contract will be up so we'll see what they come back with.

Voice your opinions to CableOne here, (have your CableOne contract # handy), below is the response to my quesion from cableoneoffargo@cableone.net:

Thank you for your comments regarding UND Sports. We value our customers and appreciate hearing their programming requests. As you may know, Midco Sports Network purchased the rights to air these games from UND. We have learned that Fox College Sports, carried on our line-up, on channel 307, has agreed to televise a large portion of UND sporting events including Hockey, Basketball and Vollyball.

Anticipation of UND Hockey games available on Fox College Sports has been confirmed. See attached schedule. Our goal is to satisfy sports fans while also keeping prices reasonable for all customers. We are always looking for ways to keep programming costs down for our customers.

Thank you for your understanding and patience. Find us on Twitter at Twitter.com/CableONE or Facebook.com/CableONE to get real-time information on this and other Cable ONE-related news. We appreciate your business.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

What do you guys know about slingboxes? If I got one, would it work well for watching midco games when I'm not in the midco viewing area? I don't even know how they work...

[Frozen4sioux]

What do you guys know about slingboxes? If I got one, would it work well for watching midco games when I'm not in the midco viewing area? I don't even know how they work...

I have and use the sling box.....it's awesome

Whatever is on the cable/dish box hooked up to the slingbox will be sent out over Internet to be viewed on whatever Internet portal you are using.

A high quality Internet connection to the slingbox is key....

Cost is in the initial equipment however if you want to pull up the slingbox on android or iPhone/iPad platforms a paid app is needed on each, about a $15-20 cost

[watchmaker49]

Midco has to have access to the parts of the contract that would affect how they do business. They have to know what their limitations are, and what their potential is. Otherwise they could go out and sign contracts with other companies, like DirecTV, and then find out that something in that contract conflicts with the CBS Sports contract with the NCHC. So Midco understands who they can contract with, and for what services. But Midco probably doesn't have access to the financial portions of the contract.

Why do your posts always have too make so much sense?

[yababy8]

Midco has a copy of the contract. They need to have that copy so that they don't overstep the restrictions within that contract. They know what their limitations are and what they aren't. As a matter of fact, they understand the contract much better than most of us could even if we read it.

Then maybe we will get lucky and have someone from Midco come on here and clarify things.

There are two questions I would want to ask:

1. If Midco somehow was able to get their channel added to say, DirectTV, are there any provisions in said contract which would obligate DirectTV to Black out the game outside of Midco's "region"? (any such provision would of course preclude DirectTV from any motivation it MIGHT have to add Midco to its channel set.)

2. Are there any provisions in the contract which would disallow Midco from rebroadcasting the game on, let's say, FSN. FSN, being another regional broadcaster, may be considered a broadcaster in our region. And, if FSN would be allowed to broadcast the game, then question #1 above would apply to them. ie would FSN's broadcast have to be blacked out outside of the FSN region for Directv and Dish, etc, subscribers?

...When you consider the motivations for CBS sports TV to add the "no national broadcasts of NCHC games" it suggest that, if they did not add clauses for #1 and even #2, then the "no national broadcast clause" itself was really a waste of their time as it, in effect, would not have the desired outcome-to make their broadcast the only show available nationally.

Let's put their motivation in practical terms; If CBS sports decides to air the Denver vs CC game on a given night they don't want the Sioux vs Minnesota Duluth game to be another option for people to select nationally as that would dilute their market dramatically. What that means from the Sioux fans perspective is that if you are outside of Midco's limited viewing area, say you live in Minneapolis or New York City, to quote Caddy Shack, "Well then you aint gett'n no Sioux" you have to watch the CC vs DU game, some Big Ten Hockey action or go to the movies. Now if question 1 or 2 above were in our favor then it would effectively destroy what CBS sports TV was aiming to accomplish..

..OOOOPS, I forgot one other option, if you are really a die hard Sioux fan, you COULD, for a small fee, PURCHASE the game on your computer through the University of North Dakota, So whenever you read or engage in discussions about whether Faison did or did not fight hard enough to allow us to have our own(FCS like) national option you should consider the POSSIBILITY that there was motivation on UND's part to "not fight to hard" for our right to broadcast nationally because the school will be acquiring a significant revenue stream from internet broadcast sales. A revenue stream that would be massively diminished if Midco got itself onto Directtv, Dish or another national cable provider

It will be interesting to see just how much revenue they get from internet broadcasts? I know I will be buying every single game.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

I have and use the sling box.....it's awesome

Whatever is on the cable/dish box hooked up to the slingbox will be sent out over Internet to be viewed on whatever Internet portal you are using.

A high quality Internet connection to the slingbox is key....

Cost is in the initial equipment however if you want to pull up the slingbox on android or iPhone/iPad platforms a paid app is needed on each, about a $15-20 cost

If i'm watching TV remotely via the slingbox, can someone at home still be watching a different channel from the same cable box?

[watchmaker49]

Then maybe we will get lucky and have someone from Midco come on here and clarify things.

There are two questions I would want to ask:

1. If Midco somehow was able to get their channel added to say, DirectTV, are there any provisions in said contract which would obligate DirectTV to Black out the game outside of Midco's "region"? (any such provision would of course preclude DirectTV from any motivation it MIGHT have to add Midco to its channel set.)

2. Are there any provisions in the contract which would disallow Midco from rebroadcasting the game on, let's say, FSN. FSN, being another regional broadcaster, may be considered a broadcaster in our region. And, if FSN would be allowed to broadcast the game, then question #1 above would apply to them. ie would FSN's broadcast have to be blacked out outside of the FSN region for Directv and Dish, etc, subscribers?

...When you consider the motivations for CBS sports TV to add the "no national broadcasts of NCHC games" it suggest that, if they did not add clauses for #1 and even #2, then the "no national broadcast clause" itself was really a wast of their time as it in effect would not have the desired outcome-to make their broadcast the only show available nationally.

Let's put their motivation in practical terms; If CBS sports decides to air the Denver vs CC game on a given night they don't want the Sioux vs Minnesota Duluth game to be another option for people to select nationally as that would dilute their market dramatically. What that means from the Sioux fans perspective is that if you are outside of Midco's limited viewing area, say you live in Minneapolis or New York City, to quote Caddy Shack, "Well then you aint gett'n no Sioux" you have to watch the CC vs DU game, some Big Ten Hockey action or go to the movies. Now if question 1 or 2 above were in our favor then it would effectively destroy what CBS sports TV was aiming to accomplish..

..OOOOPS, I forgot one other option, if you are really a die hard Sioux fan, you COULD, for a small fee, PURCHASE the game on your computer through the University of North Dakota, So whenever you read or engage in discussions about whether Faison did or did not fight hard enough to allow us to have our own(FCS like) national option you should consider the POSSIBILITY that there was motivation on UND's part to "not fight to hard" for our right to broadcast nationally because the school will be acquiring a significant revenue stream from internet broadcast sales. A revenue stream that would be massively diminished if Midco got on itself onto Directtv, Dish or another national cable provider

It will be interesting to see just how much revenue they get from internet broadcasts? I know I will be buying every single game.

If the picture is good like the link Jayson gave as an example would it really matter if the games are on tv? By the way Jayson it is Saturday enjoy your day! Don't come here and post. That can wait until Monday. You have done enough for us already this week.

[82SiouxGuy]

Then maybe we will get lucky and have someone from Midco come on here and clarify things.

There are two questions I would want to ask:

1. If Midco somehow was able to get their channel added to say, DirectTV, are there any provisions in said contract which would obligate DirectTV to Black out the game outside of Midco's "region"? (any such provision would of course preclude DirectTV from any motivation it MIGHT have to add Midco to its channel set.)

2. Are there any provisions in the contract which would disallow Midco from rebroadcasting the game on, let's say, FSN. FSN, being another regional broadcaster, may be considered a broadcaster in our region. And, if FSN would be allowed to broadcast the game, then question #1 above would apply to them. ie would FSN's broadcast have to be blacked out outside of the FSN region for Directv and Dish, etc, subscribers?

...When you consider the motivations for CBS sports TV to add the "no national broadcasts of NCHC games" it suggest that, if they did not add clauses for #1 and even #2, then the "no national broadcast clause" itself was really a waste of their time as it, in effect, would not have the desired outcome-to make their broadcast the only show available nationally.

Let's put their motivation in practical terms; If CBS sports decides to air the Denver vs CC game on a given night they don't want the Sioux vs Minnesota Duluth game to be another option for people to select nationally as that would dilute their market dramatically. What that means from the Sioux fans perspective is that if you are outside of Midco's limited viewing area, say you live in Minneapolis or New York City, to quote Caddy Shack, "Well then you aint gett'n no Sioux" you have to watch the CC vs DU game, some Big Ten Hockey action or go to the movies. Now if question 1 or 2 above were in our favor then it would effectively destroy what CBS sports TV was aiming to accomplish..

..OOOOPS, I forgot one other option, if you are really a die hard Sioux fan, you COULD, for a small fee, PURCHASE the game on your computer through the University of North Dakota, So whenever you read or engage in discussions about whether Faison did or did not fight hard enough to allow us to have our own(FCS like) national option you should consider the POSSIBILITY that there was motivation on UND's part to "not fight to hard" for our right to broadcast nationally because the school will be acquiring a significant revenue stream from internet broadcast sales. A revenue stream that would be massively diminished if Midco got itself onto Directtv, Dish or another national cable provider

It will be interesting to see just how much revenue they get from internet broadcasts? I know I will be buying every single game.

It is very doubtful that Midco would allow FSN to broadcast UND games. That would defeat the purpose of trying to sell the Midco Sports Channel to other cable companies. Midco wants to use UND sports to help them increase the area where the sports channel is available. They aren't broadcasting UND sports just so fans can see them. Midco is a competitor of FSN. That would be like CBS allowing NBC to broadcast part of March Madness, it isn't going to happen.

[yababy8]

It is very doubtful that Midco would allow FSN to broadcast UND games. That would defeat the purpose of trying to sell the Midco Sports Channel to other cable companies. Midco wants to use UND sports to help them increase the area where the sports channel is available. They aren't broadcasting UND sports just so fans can see them. Midco is a competitor of FSN. That would be like CBS allowing NBC to broadcast part of March Madness, it isn't going to happen.

I agree. FSN was not a good example, let's say, Root or some other regional provider which is not in direct competition with Midco.

I assume it would not be contractually allowed but I could be wrong so I wonder...