Sioux Goalies

[scpa0305]

Phil better than Dell? I beg to differ. The Floppin Frenchman scared the hell out of me when he was inthe net. Good goalie but I wouldn't give him the edge over Dell.

Hahaha, funny nickname. But yes....Phil was much better.

[sioux rube]

Hahaha, funny nickname. But yes....Phil was much better.

So you are saying that Phil was much better than Dell who holds the team record for 30 wins in a season? To each their own I suppose.Right now Phil is without a team I believe. Be interesting to see how far Dell goes up the pro ladder or if stays where he is at. They are both former Sioux so all is good.

[scpa0305]

So you are saying that Phil was much better than Dell who holds the team record for 30 wins in a season? To each their own I suppose.Right now Phil is without a team I believe. Be interesting to see how far Dell goes up the pro ladder or if stays where he is at. They are both former Sioux so all is good.

I believe he plays in Austria, where he makes much more than he would in the E. He won the ECHL goalie of the year a few years back as well.

[sioux rube]

I believe he plays in Austria, where he makes much more than he would in the E. He won the ECHL goalie of the year a few years back as well.

Didn't Duncan play there also? That would be a pretty sweet part of the world to make a living playing puck.

[siouxweet]

I hope I am wrong but I envision a bit of a slow start with two unproven goalies and possibly a few 5-4, 6-5 type games.

[watchmaker49]

The ECHL isn't quite the hockey career graveyard that many people make it out to be, specifically for goalies. The following goalies in the 2012 NHL Playoffs played in the ECHL: Jonathan Quick, Tim Thomas, Mike Smith, Joey MacDonald, Johan Hedberg, Martin Biron, Alex Auld, Jason Labarbera, Thomas Greiss, Jaroslav Halak, Braden Holtby, Michael Neuvirth, Dany Sabourin, and Thomas Vokoun.

That's a pretty big list and just from the teams who made the playoffs.

How many of these guys were or had been under parent club contracts before they played in the E?

[southpaw]

How many of these guys were or had been under parent club contracts before they played in the E?

Off the top of my head... Thomas and Hedberg

[scpa0305]

Didn't Duncan play there also? That would be a pretty sweet part of the world to make a living playing puck.

Yes, I believe they played for the team (could be wrong though).

[watchmaker49]

The ECHL isn't quite the hockey career graveyard that many people make it out to be, specifically for goalies. The following goalies in the 2012 NHL Playoffs played in the ECHL: Jonathan Quick, Tim Thomas, Mike Smith, Joey MacDonald, Johan Hedberg, Martin Biron, Alex Auld, Jason Labarbera, Thomas Greiss, Jaroslav Halak, Braden Holtby, Michael Neuvirth, Dany Sabourin, and Thomas Vokoun.

That's a pretty big list and just from the teams who made the playoffs.

Yeah but all of these guys had been drafted except for one. 2 or 3 played more than 30 games in the E in their careers. So their situation is nothing like Dell's at all.

[watchmaker49]

Didn't Duncan play there also? That would be a pretty sweet part of the world to make a living playing puck.

Playing in Europe is a lot better than playing in the E. Robbie Bina made more money in 10 games in Norway than he would have made in the entire second half of the season and playoffs in Vegas.

[Blackheart]

Yes, I believe they played for the team (could be wrong though).

Duncs played for Salzburg

[siouxforeverbaby]

How many of those guys played up and then down? More importantly how many had signed free agent instead of parent club contracts?

Sorry to just get back to you, but seriously? There are 486 players on that list...do you really think that I know the careers of all of them? What little research I had time to do...at least 7 of them did and that is leaving off in the B's.

Which either way, your original statement said that there was no chance of going anywhere. Unless I quoted you wrong? The point of my original post was to say that there is a CHANCE of going somewhere else. Is it small? Yes. Does Dell have a chance? Yes. Do I think it is a huge chance? No. However, even a 2-5% chance is a chance.

Eagles are a good team watched them play the Wranglers last year. Michael Fourney also played there. Good luck to Dell at $300-$400 a week and no shot to go further. As Choyt3 pointed out it good have something to do with his wife's work or education. Why else leave for that kind of money?

[watchmaker49]

Sorry to just get back to you, but seriously? There are 486 players on that list...do you really think that I know the careers of all of them? What little research I had time to do...at least 7 of them did and that is leaving off in the B's.

Which either way, your original statement said that there was no chance of going anywhere. Unless I quoted you wrong? The point of my original post was to say that there is a CHANCE of going somewhere else. Is it small? Yes. Does Dell have a chance? Yes. Do I think it is a huge chance? No. However, even a 2-5% chance is a chance.

I can agree with your idea here. No chance at all was pushing it on my part. 2-5% is resonable figure.

[scpa0305]

Sorry to just get back to you, but seriously? There are 486 players on that list...do you really think that I know the careers of all of them? What little research I had time to do...at least 7 of them did and that is leaving off in the B's.

Which either way, your original statement said that there was no chance of going anywhere. Unless I quoted you wrong? The point of my original post was to say that there is a CHANCE of going somewhere else. Is it small? Yes. Does Dell have a chance? Yes. Do I think it is a huge chance? No. However, even a 2-5% chance is a chance.

Sorry to rain on your parade but the goalies you listed (I believe that was you) were great goalies on some pretty terrible teams before the made in further professionally. This simply weren't noticed or were drafted and stuck behind layers of good goalies in the minors. There is a big difference, Dell was on a great team. Lets get one thing straight here, while Dell wasn't terrible for us (except for the beginning of last year) by no means was he an absolute stud. He is a big goalie with above average positioning but has major puck control problems which most people that pay a lot of attention to the game can see. This is most likely why no AHL team signed him and why he bounced to the E a year early....because Gothberg will end of stealing his job and he will be out of other options.

[watchmaker49]

Sorry to rain on your parade but the goalies you listed (I believe that was you) were great goalies on some pretty terrible teams before the made in further professionally. This simply weren't noticed or were drafted and stuck behind layers of good goalies in the minors. There is a big difference, Dell was on a great team. Lets get one thing straight here, while Dell wasn't terrible for us (except for the beginning of last year) by no means was he an absolute stud. He is a big goalie with above average positioning but has major puck control problems which most people that pay a lot of attention to the game can see. This is most likely why no AHL team signed him and why he bounced to the E a year early....because Gothberg will end of stealing his job and he will be out of other options.

This made me think about that list of goalies and how long it took a lot of them to get to the NHL and stay there. Makes me wonder if there are almost too many good goalies out there and luck and timing seems to play a big part in how far they go. Or are there just really little things that seperate goalies in the N from the A and the A from the E?

[82SiouxGuy]

This made me think about that list of goalies and how long it took a lot of them to get to the NHL and stay there. Makes me wonder if there are almost too many good goalies out there and luck and timing seems to play a big part in how far they go. Or are there just really little things that seperate goalies in the N from the A and the A from the E?

I think that luck and timing are involved. But I think that focus and maturity and consistency are often what separates the ones that make it from the ones that don't. That's why goalies often take longer to make the NHL. The good ones have to be on 60 or more minutes per game, 60-80 games per year or even more depending on the playoffs. A lot of goalies have enough talent to make it. They just have to learn how do it night in and night out.

[scpa0305]

This made me think about that list of goalies and how long it took a lot of them to get to the NHL and stay there. Makes me wonder if there are almost too many good goalies out there and luck and timing seems to play a big part in how far they go. Or are there just really little things that seperate goalies in the N from the A and the A from the E?

I know a scout and he has said the same thing many times...what is different now, from 10-20 year ago, is that there are a lot of good goalies who have great fundamentals. Most likely because they focus on one sport, or play year round, or are trained from day 1. But they have to because the game has evolved so much. But, there are always the new types of goalies that make me reconsider this....Rinne, Quick, etc.

[scpa0305]

I think that luck and timing are involved. But I think that focus and maturity and consistency are often what separates the ones that make it from the ones that don't. That's why goalies often take longer to make the NHL. The good ones have to be on 60 or more minutes per game, 60-80 games per year or even more depending on the playoffs. A lot of goalies have enough talent to make it. They just have to learn how do it night in and night out.

True....that can be said with all positions within the game. I grew up with some really good hockey players....but they simply couldn't bring it that much. A lot changes when hockey becomes your job.

[sioux rube]

I know a scout and he has said the same thing many times...what is different now, from 10-20 year ago, is that there are a lot of good goalies who have great fundamentals. Most likely because they focus on one sport, or play year round, or are trained from day 1. But they have to because the game has evolved so much. But, there are always the new types of goalies that make me reconsider this....Rinne, Quick, etc.

And alot of it has to do with between the ears. The goalie that can forget about a goal he thought he should of saved and move on in an instant obviously has an edge too. I'm sure like any other sport that mental toughness goes a long way especially at the goalie position when a weak goal can cost your team a game or worse yet a championship.

[watchmaker49]

With all this taken into consideration maybe Dell will fall into the right place, right time with someone and have a stellar career. Only time will tell.

[Mariucci]

And alot of it has to do with between the ears. The goalie that can forget about a goal he thought he should of saved and move on in an instant obviously has an edge too. I'm sure like any other sport that mental toughness goes a long way especially at the goalie position when a weak goal can cost your team a game or worse yet a championship.

Could not agree more. See Jeff Frazee. Scouts said he was the best American goalie prospect in years to come along but he was total headcase. It doesn't matter that his physical talent is better than most.

[Blackheart]

Long Island Frazee?

[yababy8]

Lets get one thing straight here, while Dell wasn't terrible for us (except for the beginning of last year) by no means was he an absolute stud. He is a big goalie with above average positioning but has major puck control problems which most people that pay a lot of attention to the game can see. This is most likely why no AHL team signed him and why he bounced to the E a year early....because Gothberg will end of stealing his job and he will be out of other options.

Your breakdown of Dell' s skill set is mostly spot on. There are a couple of things I would challenge;

First, I would classify his positioning as better than above average. From my view Dell had some of the best positioning I have ever seen on the college level.

Second I think it is a bit of an over statement to say he had "major" problems with puck control. While puck control was one if his weaknesses, I would put hiss skill in this area as more like slightly below average.

I will throw in one more of each a plus and a minus in the Dell assememt.

He did not have the big save element to his game. Mostly in the big glove category.

He did have very good psychology. He didn't get flustered very often and kept very cool under pressure. And attribute that is quite significant in the book of good tending.

So I think he has potential to get better and have some kind off pro career. He would probably be a good goalie coach as well.

I will throw on my SIOUX jersey and make the 25 mile trek north to the Budweiser Events Center and give him a cheer for the Sioux fans.

[watchmaker49]

Your breakdown of Dell' s skill set is mostly spot on. There are a couple of things I would challenge;

First, I would classify his positioning as better than above average. From my view Dell had some of the best positioning I have ever seen on the college level.

Second I think it is a bit of an over statement to say he had "major" problems with puck control. While puck control was one if his weaknesses, I would put hiss skill in this area as more like slightly below average.

I will throw in one more of each a plus and a minus in the Dell assememt.

He did not have the big save element to his game. Mostly in the big glove category.

He did have very good psychology. He didn't get flustered very often and kept very cool under pressure. And attribute that is quite significant in the book of good tending.

So I think he has potential to get better and have some kind off pro career. He would probably be a good goalie coach as well.

I will throw on my SIOUX jersey and make the 25 mile trek north to the Budweiser Events Center and give him a cheer for the Sioux fans.

Since you will be so close, and have local sports access, maybe you could keep us updated with links to how he is doing please.

[scpa0305]

Could not agree more. See Jeff Frazee. Scouts said he was the best American goalie prospect in years to come along but he was total headcase. It doesn't matter that his physical talent is better than most.

And then the year he bolted from MN he went on to be an AHL all-star and (I believe) AHL goalie of the year...could be wrong on the second piece. Either way, almost got called up to the show until he imploded the next year.