82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I think that is a very weak analogy, an apples to oranges type comparison, but I also understand that you're very stubborn and unwilling to see things from my point of view. You're certainly entitled to an opinion, I'll concede that much. We can all see what your point of view is, it's tunnel vision. Nothing matters except you and what you want. Everything else can burn to the ground. That's a great legacy to leave for the world. You should be proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I think that is a very weak analogy, an apples to oranges type comparison, but I also understand that you're very stubborn and unwilling to see things from my point of view. You're certainly entitled to an opinion, I'll concede that much. Just a couple months ago you compared the loss of the nickname to the loss of a family member. Pot meet kettle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Just a couple months ago you compared the loss of the nickname to the loss of a family member. Pot meet kettle. See, the nickname is "important" to him, so he's right (in his mind). It doesn't matter what's important to anyone else. It's all about Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Nothing matters to you except what you want, which is to keep sports at any cost. The cherished nickname can burn to the ground but who cares because that isn't what you care about most. See, that argument works both ways. If you don't care about sports, why are you here??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 From the Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived thread: It's not that anybody thinks the NCAA will reconsider, it's that we think there will come a time when they will have no other choice but to back off. What they're doing is illegal, and will be proven so in a court of law. Spirit Lake is going to do to the NCAA what Georgia Tech did to Cumberland. Wait and see, and when the time comes get in line to hear me say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" And you wonder why you have no credibility here?? Now you're trying to tell us the sanctions won't hurt the school or its athletic programs?!? You are wrong. All you do is spread misinformation and emotion-based assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Nothing matters to you except what you want, which is to keep sports at any cost. The cherished nickname can burn to the ground but who cares because that isn't what you care about most. See, that argument works both ways. Look, I will try to explain it to you like I would to a small child. Sports are important to colleges. UND is important to me. Sports are important to UND. It is important to keep sports strong at UND. Retiring the nickname is the price to keep sports at UND strong, and the price to keep UND strong. It isn't about what is good for me. It's about what is best for the students, athletes, coaches and staff at UND. It's about what is best for the state of North Dakota. But you would never understand doing something because it is important to someone else. It's always about Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I do care about sports, which is exactly why I'm here. But I'm not willing to accept a new nickname. That, to me as a fan, is a dealbreaker. Thank goodness you weren't a Washington Bullets Wizards fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 From the Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived thread: And you wonder why you have no credibility here?? Now you're trying to tell us the sanctions won't hurt the school or its athletic programs?!? You are wrong. All you do is spread misinformation and emotion-based assumptions. He also said that the NCAA would be destroyed by the lawsuit. Just a couple of his delusional statements. Someone should start a list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Thank goodness you weren't a Washington Bullets Wizards fan. I believe that at one time he said he was fine with the Oilers moving to Tennessee, but lost interest when they change the name to Titans. Dave is fixated on the label. The contents don't matter, only the label is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 The franchise in this case isn't "Fighting SIoux"; the franchise is "the University of North Dakota". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 The franchise in this case isn't "Fighting SIoux"; the franchise is "the University of North Dakota". He doesn't understand the concept. He is superficial. It's all about the label. The contents don't matter. He may be the only person on the planet that can't see that the athletic department would be completely the same whether the teams are called the Fighting Sioux, Flickertails or anything else. What matters is what's in the uniform, the people, the athletes, the coaches, the staff, etc. Dave believes that only the name matters. One benefit of retiring the nickname would be losing superficial people like Dave from the fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 They are not. Which I don't understand how Warroad can still be the Warriors when they are NOT on a reservation. When MN made that rule back in the 80's, schools that had the Warrior name could keep the name if they switched from an Indian mascot to one like, say, a Roman soldier. A warrior doesn't necessarily have to be a Native American, but a Fighting Sioux can only be one thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Nothing matters to you except what you want, which is to keep sports at any cost. The cherished nickname can burn to the ground but who cares because that isn't what you care about most. See, that argument works both ways. WTF? Did you read this before you posted it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 WTF? Did you read this before you posted it? He actually thinks it makes sense. He believes that it's a real comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 The franchise in the other case is the Houston/Tennessee Oilers/Titans. As with this case, in the other case you completely reinvent your product when the identity becomes altered. Take the band Foreigner for example. They are still performing in 2012 but with only one original member. While they are technically still Foreigner, they are for all intents and purposes an entirely different band. Not an exact comparison, but try to use your imagination. There is a slight similarity to music groups changing members and sports teams changing names/colors/logos. In both cases you are redefining and reinventing your product to become something different than what it had been previously. In your example every franchise, every college team, would be different every year because they all change players from year to year. That is a comparison to your example of Foreigner. The people involved change in both examples. So, how can you be a fan of any team? They constantly change out players and coaches. Teams changing names, colors, logos, etc. is something completely different. You are the only person on the planet that think they are at all similar. The University of North Dakota athletic program would not be completely reinvented if they change the name. The facilities, location, history and tradition won't change at all. The players and coaches would change about as much as a normal year. They have changed logos at least a couple of times during your lifetime, so another time shouldn't destroy your life. Even the nickname has changed in your life. UND just used Sioux for many years. It has only been the last decade or 2 that they added Fighting. So you have even survived a change in the nickname. And the team wasn't destroyed by changing the nickname or the logo. It won't when they retire this nickname either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 ... sports teams changing names/colors/logos. In both cases you are redefining and reinventing your product to become something different than what it had been previously. Different? Really? Then will the real Buffalo Sabres please stand up. So the "French Connection" never historically played for the Buffalo Sabres when the Sabres were in their red and black phase? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 When MN made that rule back in the 80's, schools that had the Warrior name could keep the name if they switched from an Indian mascot to one like, say, a Roman soldier. A warrior doesn't necessarily have to be a Native American, but a Fighting Sioux can only be one thing. Warroad still uses the NA logo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 He also said that the NCAA would be destroyed by the lawsuit. Just a couple of his delusional statements. Someone should start a list. The interwebs don't have that much room ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Warroad still uses the NA logo. Didn't know that. Thanks. Beats me how they get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMeister Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah While they are technically still Foreigner, they are for all intents and purposes an entirely different band. blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah From December through February 9th, UND hockey was not technically the Fighting Sioux. Did you have any interest in the outcome of these games? Fri, Dec 02 Alaska Anchorage * at Anchorage, Alaska 5 - 2 (W) Sat, Dec 03 Alaska Anchorage * at Anchorage, Alaska 4 - 1 (W) Fri, Dec 09 Nebraska Omaha * Grand Forks, N.D. 1 - 2 (L) OT Sat, Dec 10 Nebraska Omaha * Grand Forks, N.D. 1 - 0 (W) Sat, Dec 17 Russian Red Stars (Exh.) Grand Forks, N.D. 5 - 1 (W) Fri, Dec 30 Harvard Grand Forks, N.D. 4 - 4 (T) OT Sat, Dec 31 Harvard Grand Forks, N.D. 7 - 3 (W) Sat, Jan 07 Clarkson at Winnipeg, Manitoba 3 - 1 (W) Fri, Jan 13 Minnesota * Grand Forks, N.D. 2 - 1 (W) Sat, Jan 14 Minnesota * Grand Forks, N.D. 2 - 6 (L) Fri, Jan 20 St. Cloud State * at St. Cloud, Minn. 1 - 3 (L) Sat, Jan 21 St. Cloud State * at St. Cloud, Minn. 3 - 2 (W) Fri, Jan 27 Wisconsin * Grand Forks, N.D. 5 - 3 (W) Sat, Jan 28 Wisconsin * Grand Forks, N.D. 4 - 2 (W) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Didn't know that. Thanks. Beats me how they get away with it. http://www.warroad.k12.mn.us/highschool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yes, the University of North Dakota athletic program would be completely reinvented if they changed the name every bit as much as the Bullets/Oilers/Nordiques were reinvented when they became the Wizards/Titans/Avalanche. To insist otherwise is delusional. This happens only in your bizarre little world. No one else believes this. Talk about delusional. Moving a team to a new city is a major change because you are going to new fans and alienating the old fans. But just changing nicknames, colors or logos does not. Earlier I brought up the fact that UND has used 3 different logos in your lifetime, and basically 2 nicknames (Sioux and Fighting Sioux). How is changing the nickname and logo now any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I am not the only one who believes this. Maybe, MAYBE... the only one on this particular message board, but 99.9% of the sports fans in the world are not on this message board. I guarantee you I am far from alone in this way of thinking. As for the difference between Sioux and Fighting Sioux, I am okay with either one or the other because they are so close to the same. I don't remember them being just the Sioux without the Fighting part in my lifetime, but that is hardly the point. We usually just call them the Sioux for short anyways just as Vikings fans tend to call their team the Vikes. I don't consider Sioux and Fighting Sioux to be two completely different nicknames, but rather two variations of the same nickname. The identity does not change by adding or dropping the word Fighting, but if they were to go to a nickname that has nothing to do with Native Americans in any way that would be a completely different identity and a form of reinventing the product that they put out there. You are the only one that believes a team disappears if the nickname changes. No one else has ever said that. I defy you to find that in a quote from anyone else. And you avoided the question about the logos. In your lifetime they have used the Blackhawk logo, the geometric logo and the current logo. Just like the Sabres using several different logos. How can you possibly still be a fan since they have used several different logos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I guarantee you I'm not the only one who believes that a team disappears when a nickname changes. Different logos are fine as long as they are all some sort of a variation of an indian head. Sorry, your guarantee is worthless. Show us some other examples of people that have the same crazy thoughts. And it's funny how your story changes. Changing the logo is bad. No, changing the logo is fine as long as it's a variation of an Indian head. You keep changing your story. It always boils down to whatever Dave wants. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be what Dave wants. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm glad you mentioned the Sabres. When they went to the red and black color scheme it was as if the old Sabres ceased to exist. I'm glad they came to their senses and brought back the proper Buffalo Sabres colors. So hockey fans in Buffalo didn't have Buffalo Sabres hockey when the team wore red and black? But now to the conundrum you've set for yourself: Your beloved Penguins changed colors in 1980 from the baby blues to the Steelers/Pirates style black and gold. So which of those aren't the Pengiuns and which ones are the "real" Penguins? Should you even be a Pengiuns fan because they changed colors in your lifetime? History of Penguins jerseys: http://penguins.nhl....ge.htm?id=56510 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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