Fetch Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sioux_County,_North_Dakota One of the poorest counties in the USA What if they could make money some how from rights to the Sioux Name Say 1/3 to SL 1/3 to SR rest to UND (or I could even see 1/2 SL 1/2 SR) Any way to know how much money this would be ? Them being 2/3's in SD they are often forgotten in ND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 About as much interest as before & right after the agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Standing Rock Tribal Council has made their statement. It's done as they see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 This why the name was never saved - You think the high & mighty would go out of their way to really speak with SR The old where there is a will there is a way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This why the name was never saved - You think the high & mighty would go out of their way to really speak with SR The old where there is a will there is a way Just because no one answered a stupid question on a fan forum you think that no one talked to Standing Rock. The 2 have nothing in common. Efforts were made to talk to people at Standing Rock. They wouldn't even talk to Archie Fool Bear, so why does anyone believe that they would talk to outsiders. And there isn't always a way if the other side doesn't want it. Standing Rock really doesn't want UND to have the nickname. You want an answer to your original post? Here are a bunch of reasons that it won't happen and wouldn't happen. 1) It's too late. The NCAA has said on multiple occasions that they won't accept anything after the deadline of November 30, 2010. Standing Rock could appeal right now and give unanimous approval and the NCAA would not remove UND from the sanctions list. What don't you understand about that? 2) It had to be all of Standing Rock, not just Sioux County. Getting some kind of approval from Sioux County wouldn't have made any difference to the NCAA. The approval needed to be from the entire tribe. 3) Standing Rock didn't want any money for the approval. The Tribal Council wouldn't even talk about it, so money was never going to be a factor to them. They don't believe that the name is for sale. 4) The money isn't as big as you seem to think. On an average year the merchandising rights brought in about $200,000 to $250,000. The last couple of years has been more because people have bought extra merchandise thinking that it was going to go away. I think that the big year was a little over $400,000. Sales are going to go back down to normal levels after the issue is settled. Standing Rock isn't going to sell out for $125,000. 5) UND wouldn't offer the percentages that you are suggesting anyway. One of the advantages to having a popular logo is to be able to make some money. They probably would have been interested in giving some of the proceeds, but certainly not all or even 2/3. My guess is that they would have been willing to give some place between 10% and 25%. Even if they gave 50% and kept half, that would leave less than $65,000 per tribe. If Standing Rock isn't going to sell out for $125,000, they certainly aren't for $65,000. The NCAA isn't going to give approval for UND to use the name and logo. It isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Just because no one answered a stupid question on a fan forum you think that no one talked to Standing Rock. The 2 have nothing in common. Efforts were made to talk to people at Standing Rock. They wouldn't even talk to Archie Fool Bear, so why does anyone believe that they would talk to outsiders. And there isn't always a way if the other side doesn't want it. Standing Rock really doesn't want UND to have the nickname. You want an answer to your original post? Here are a bunch of reasons that it won't happen and wouldn't happen. 1) It's too late. The NCAA has said on multiple occasions that they won't accept anything after the deadline of November 30, 2010. Standing Rock could appeal right now and give unanimous approval and the NCAA would not remove UND from the sanctions list. What don't you understand about that? 2) It had to be all of Standing Rock, not just Sioux County. Getting some kind of approval from Sioux County wouldn't have made any difference to the NCAA. The approval needed to be from the entire tribe. 3) Standing Rock didn't want any money for the approval. The Tribal Council wouldn't even talk about it, so money was never going to be a factor to them. They don't believe that the name is for sale. 4) The money isn't as big as you seem to think. On an average year the merchandising rights brought in about $200,000 to $250,000. The last couple of years has been more because people have bought extra merchandise thinking that it was going to go away. I think that the big year was a little over $400,000. Sales are going to go back down to normal levels after the issue is settled. Standing Rock isn't going to sell out for $125,000. 5) UND wouldn't offer the percentages that you are suggesting anyway. One of the advantages to having a popular logo is to be able to make some money. They probably would have been interested in giving some of the proceeds, but certainly not all or even 2/3. My guess is that they would have been willing to give some place between 10% and 25%. Even if they gave 50% and kept half, that would leave less than $65,000 per tribe. If Standing Rock isn't going to sell out for $125,000, they certainly aren't for $65,000. The NCAA isn't going to give approval for UND to use the name and logo. It isn't going to happen. Have you been to S.A.B. lately, there are people that believe that the NCAA is going to settle with the tribes and that they are going take UND off of the Sanctions list. I don't know who is spreading this miss-information? Edited April 23, 2012 by Goon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Goon, there are people who still believe the earth is flat also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Have you been to S.A.B. lately, there are people that believe that the NCAA is going to settle with the tribes and that they are going take UND off of the Sanctions list. I don't know who is spreading this miss-information? I quit going to S.A.B. I don't want to give Port the hits. Besides, I get tired of reading the trash he puts on there since most of it is based on half-truths or outright lies. It is hard to believe that people can't see through him yet. People keep coming up with these scenarios, but can never give a legitimate reason that the NCAA would do that. The NCAA has all the cards at this point. The only wild card is the lawsuit, and that doesn't seem to have much chance. What are they going to say if the lawsuit gets thrown out? That the tribes have the NCAA right where they want them? Do they still believe that some "show of wills" will change the NCAA's minds? Doesn't the fact that Standing Rock agrees with the NCAA mean anything to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Have you been to S.A.B. lately, there are people that believe that the NCAA is going to settle with the tribes and that they are going take UND off of the Sanctions list. I don't know who is spreading this miss-information? If the NCAA was to settle, the settlement certainly wouldn't include taking UND off the sanctions list.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Goon, there are people who still believe the earth is flat also. Wait a minute!!!!!!! It's not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Wait a minute!!!!!!! It's not? And the Earth orbits the Sun, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Lets say SL wins - what would a settlement look like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Lets say SL wins - what would a settlement look like ? Maybe if SL would win I would think the NCAA would allow UND the nickname as long as SL's tribal council agrees to it, but if they don't let UND have permission to use it its gone. Kinda like the same deal they gave Central Michigan by using the closest tribe to the campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Lets say SL wins - what would a settlement look like ? You should hold your breath until that happens FYI: A settlement is what happens when the case is ended before one side wins.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Have you been to S.A.B. lately, there are people that believe that the NCAA is going to settle with the tribes and that they are going take UND off of the Sanctions list. I don't know who is spreading this miss-information? It just shows why "drugs are bad, mmkay?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 And the Earth orbits the Sun, not the other way around. I thought it was Mars, but continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You should hold your breath until that happens FYI: A settlement is what happens when the case is ended before one side wins.... HA! I don't see the NCAA changing their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 what can be won $$$ or the right to use the name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 what can be won $$$ or the right to use the name It depends on what is found in the lawsuit. Could be one or the other or both or neither. But nothing will be won by Spirit Lake any time soon. The only logical results for this year are either the NCAA gets the case dismissed, or Spirit Lake wins the right to continue the case and they will get a hearing date for probably some time in 2013. Spirit Lake winning the right to continue the case would not give them any advantage going into the lawsuit itself, it would just mean that the court is willing to look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 or say enough is enough - you should have included the tribes from the begining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 or say enough is enough - you should have included the tribes from the begining The tribes should have spoken up earlier than they did. Spirit Lake sat on their hands for years and Standing Rock refuses to discuss the issue or allow a vote on it. I have a hard time feeling sorry for either tribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 They don't march to our drummer anymore (never did) As far as SR they are just now feeling & understanding what's been going on & most likely still don't care. But I bet the State wide vote in June will show SR (Sioux County) would have approved the name. (I know it matters not to those who are afraid of the 1st agreement) The 1st agreement was flawed & never should have been signed. & if the vote in Sioux County proves this then we stand proud & do what ever it takes to right the wrong. SL however, although at their own pace, are now ready to fight & we should be supporting them - Only one Tribe SL should have been enough & now they are pizzed off cause no one ask before & no one ask them when the Governor went to see the ncaa. All because of the unfair & should be invalid agreement. It is discrimination that Florida only needed one tribe & it is racist that the ncaa tells us our name was hostile & abusive when both ND & our nearest Tribe says it's not - some monopoly club thinks they know better than those who live right here. It is the ncaa that is & has been hypocritical and are now Hostile & Abusive & I pray a Judge sees how the ncaa bamboozled us in the 1st agreement & gives Spirit Lake their chance to be heard. The SBOHE & UND Admin. and especially the AG were in to big of a hurry to get the hostile & abusive title off of their backs & were taken advantage of by the ncaa & the ones hurt & left out the most was Spirit Lake Tribe - They deserve their day in court & the old agreement should be void because of SL being left out If the ncaa is this bullheaded & petty & shameful then to Hell with them - It won't be the people of ND harming UND it will be the ncaa when the people of ND tells the ncaa what they think of how they handled this VOTE NO to tell the ncaa they are wrong & need to correct the injustice If the ncaa really thinks it has done the right / noble thing why would they be afraid to void the agreement & talk to SL - because now they know they screwed the people of ND & Spirit Lake - There is no Justice in that only know it all academics & slimy Lawyers & $$$ taking advantage of people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 they don't march to our drummer anymore (never did) As far as SR they are just feeling & understanding what's been going on & most likely still don't care - SL however although at their own pace are now ready to fight & we should be supporting them - Only one Tribe SL should have been enough & now they are pizzed off cause no one ask before & no one ask them when the Governor went to see the ncaa So we're supposed to work on their time schedule? Contracts usually have deadlines. The deadline wasn't met. Do the tribes get special treatment on meeting deadlines for other contracts? I doubt it. As we have discussed before, more than likely the requirement of 2 tribes was the penalty that had to be paid to get 4 extra years. Everyone else had to get tribal approval by 2006. UND got the deadline pushed until November 30, 2010. And the NCAA did ask them before, Spirit Lake was asked during the initial waiver period, as was Standing Rock. Neither would support UND during that time. And they were both asked again during the settlement period. Spirit Lake finally responded in favor but Standing Rock continues to say no. The meeting between the North Dakota delegation and the NCAA was on the NCAA's terms, and the only thing they wanted to do was to let the people from North Dakota know that they planned to follow the settlement. That didn't need tribal involvement because the time period for their input was past. The entire NCAA message was "Here's the agreement and this is what we will follow". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 The confusion - mismanagement - arrogance & political BS was all handled badly - after the june vote all cards & knowledge will be on the table in a more Fair & Consistant manner - I know again you change the name folks will just keep waving the white flag & try to scare people into surrendering - I have more Faith in the people of ND to see thru it & do the right thing - if the ncaa won't give they will forever be blamed & hated for what they did to us. & hopefully they can be sued again & again until they see they are wrong All thru history Academics - Politicians - Judges - Lawyers - Military - Groups of people- have crammed laws & wrong deeds against the Native People - were just going to let em do it again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 The confusion - mismanagement - arrogance & political BS was all handled badly - after the june vote all cards & knowledge will be on the table in a more Fair & Consistant manner - I know again you change the name folks will just keep waving the white flag & try to scare people into surrendering - I have more Faith in the people of ND to see thru it & do the right thing - if the ncaa won't give they will forever be blamed & hated for what they did to us. & hopefully they can be sued again & again until they see they are wrong All thru history Academics - Politicians - Judges - Lawyers - Military - Groups of people- have crammed laws & wrong deeds against the Native People - were just going to let em do it again ? You can't sue over and over again. You have to have a specific reason to sue. If that reason isn't accepted by the courts the lawsuit is dismissed. If you continue to sue without good LEGAL reasons you can be fined and held in contempt of court. The courts get tired of people wasting their time. Spirit Lake has thrown everything they can into this lawsuit, there isn't anything else they could sue about. And UND and the state of North Dakota can't sue about the issue any more unless the NCAA does something that is against the settlement. There shouldn't be any more lawsuits about the nickname after the Spirit Lake lawsuit is decided. Doing the right thing is doing what is right for UND. In this case, at this time in history, the right thing to do is retire the nickname. It has served UND well, but it is time to move on. I hope that the people of North Dakota can understand that when they learn more of the facts instead of the lies and half-truths that have been sold by S.A.B and the nickname-at-all-cost crowd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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