Conference Realignments - Take 2

[Cratter]

I'm sure Douple'd spill the beans on specifics if your AD showed some interest. Time to pick up the phone, pick up the phone . . . before the train leaves the station.

Based on Summit (or did they change the name again?) history the train might leave the station but always comes right back looking for more "passengers."

[Cratter]

"We have schools interested in joining our conference to help solidify our conference." - Slummit

Big Sky = Already Solid.

Case closed.

[darell1976]

"We have schools interested in joining our conference to help solidify our conference." - Slummit

Big Sky = Already Solid.

Case closed.

Bingo!!

[mg2009]

the summit *with UND* is a vastly better league than the sky and completely stable and features most of our rivals (UNO denver ndsu sdsu usd). I'm sure the other 4 summit schools would have the leverage to get UND into the MVFC.

seriously aside from the stability strawman, I'm not sure what the pro-sky case is.

[homer]

the summit *with UND* is a vastly better league than the sky and completely stable and features most of our rivals (UNO denver ndsu sdsu usd). I'm sure the other 4 summit schools would have the leverage to get UND into the MVFC.

seriously aside from the stability strawman, I'm not sure what the pro-sky case is.

Stability and a home for football.

[mg2009]

Stability and a home for football.

and like I said, if we wanted to go to the summit (objectively we should, its a better league even without us, and a vastly better league with us), I think we can be close to 100% confident that UND would be accepted into the mvfc.

und ndsu sdsu usd uno denver wiu, plus the alphabet soup indiana schools and potentially umkc or oru coming back. Thats a league that could on occasion produce multiple bids and even rival the MVC.

[homer]

I've have seen nothing that says its 100 percent given we'd be accepted to MVFC. I'd argue it's easily better right now. Both are one bid leagues that will trade spots year in and year out.

[UNDColorado]

and like I said, if we wanted to go to the summit (objectively we should, its a better league even without us, and a vastly better league with us), I think we can be close to 100% confident that UND would be accepted into the mvfc.

und ndsu sdsu usd uno denver wiu, plus the alphabet soup indiana schools and potentially umkc or oru coming back. Thats a league that could on occasion produce multiple bids and even rival the MVC.

You need to prove that. I have not seen one spec of information that suggests a MVFC invite and until there is any new information this is just your opinion.

[bincitysioux]

the summit *with UND* is a vastly better league than the sky and completely stable and features most of our rivals (UNO denver ndsu sdsu usd). I'm sure the other 4 summit schools would have the leverage to get UND into the MVFC.

seriously aside from the stability strawman, I'm not sure what the pro-sky case is.

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it until I'm blue in the face. Being in the Big Sky gives us the best possible combination of attractive opponents for our home schedules and "access" to our rivals. Hands down, case closed, it is not even close. We play Nebraska-Omaha, NDSU, SDSU, and USD in in almost every single sport. Denver continues to be arguably our biggest rival in our #1 sport. We also play Montana, Montana St., Weber St., and Northern Colorado multiple times every year. There is no possible better arrangement.

and like I said, if we wanted to go to the summit (objectively we should, its a better league even without us, and a vastly better league with us), I think we can be close to 100% confident that UND would be accepted into the mvfc.

und ndsu sdsu usd uno denver wiu, plus the alphabet soup indiana schools and potentially umkc or oru coming back. Thats a league that could on occasion produce multiple bids and even rival the MVC.

100% positive we could get into the MVFC? BS. We tried for about 4 years and they wouldn't even talk to us. The Big Sky CAME TO US.

The Summit will will rival the MVC? BS again. The Summit has had a nice run the last few years, no doubt about it. But they, like the Big Sky will always be a low-major basketball league, a one bid league.

And where are these reports that Oral Roberts is going to rejoin the Summit coming from? Seriously, I can't find anything.

[mg2009]

I've have seen nothing that says its 100 percent given we'd be accepted to MVFC. I'd argue it's easily better right now. Both are one bid leagues that will trade spots year in and year out.

I'm just gaming it out. The summit needs UND, the MVFC needs the summit schools. If the summit schools take their ball and go home, the MVFC would have to pick up another member, and their aren't any that wouldn't require an all sport invite, and the MVC does not want any of those schools. So the end result is if ndsu, sdsu, usd and wiu want UND in, UND gets in. Some kind of pseudo-divisions could actually reduce the frequency with which the isu, ysu, siu faction would have to play in the dakotas, presuming that the summit school would all play each other annually.

I might have to start bothering faison about it.

[mg2009]

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it until I'm blue in the face. Being in the Big Sky gives us the best possible combination of attractive opponents for our home schedules and "access" to our rivals. Hands down, case closed, it is not even close. We play Nebraska-Omaha, NDSU, SDSU, and USD in in almost every single sport. Denver continues to be arguably our biggest rival in our #1 sport. We also play Montana, Montana St., Weber St., and Northern Colorado multiple times every year. There is no possible better arrangement.

who gives a !@#$ if we play any of the big sky schools? We could be playing denver in all sports twice a year, as well as all the others, instead of having the 'option' to play them. No-possible better arrangement my ass, our conference schedule is a yawn-fest.

100% positive we could get into the MVFC? BS. We tried for about 4 years and they wouldn't even talk to us. The Big Sky CAME TO US.

The Summit will will rival the MVC? BS again. The Summit has had a nice run the last few years, no doubt about it. But they, like the Big Sky will always be a low-major basketball league, a one bid league.

And where are these reports that Oral Roberts is going to rejoin the Summit coming from? Seriously, I can't find anything.

when did we ever try? The moment we got a look we told them to f-off in favor or our bottom feeder conference of choice. If we want to join the summit, the summit will get us in the mvfc. You know, the conferences that actually make sense for us. Your argument is that we should get in bed with the first loser that said we were pretty. Talk about low standards.

The summit is not on a run, it's a fundamentally different league. With half their schools barely out of transition, they were a top-half league, they aren't going to take a step back by adding another potential mid-major program in UND.

[jdub27]

and like I said, if we wanted to go to the summit (objectively we should, its a better league even without us, and a vastly better league with us), I think we can be close to 100% confident that UND would be accepted into the mvfc.

Better league based on what? And why would the MVC want to even out the balance of powers for the Summit teams in the MVFC? They already are opposed to traveling west the way it is. Patty V was also on record saying that 9 was the ideal conference size because it allowed for a balanced schedule. Adding USD made for an unbalanced schedule, but only 1 extra time. Why would they want to add another team to further unbalance the schedule?

when did we ever try? The moment we got a look we told them to f-off in favor or our bottom feeder conference of choice. If we want to join the summit, the summit will get us in the mvfc. You know, the conferences that actually make sense for us. Your argument is that we should get in bed with the first loser that said we were pretty. Talk about low standards.

Douple let UND's app sit there for how long before he even gave it a look, which coincidentally is right around the same time that the Big Sky started showing interest.. And for a second there I thought you last sentence was how NDSU got into the Mid-Con after getting rejected by the Big Sky multiple times.

[SiouxVolley]

No motives actually, I've just heard a lot of people over here crowing about the demise of the Summit, and I think the Summit will really get on solid footing in the next few years with the addition of Denver and hopefully the return of ORU and other additions. One of the prominent posters here, who is never wrong, even stated that the Summit will lose its autos and have to merge or die.

Do I want UND in the Summit? I've said it before, and I'll say it again . . . I think UND in Big Sky helps the perception of NDSU within the state of ND. I think it opens the door for NDSU to be more prominent in the state of ND, and minimizes the competition, especially for FB recruiting. It's probably a matter of perspective . . . does UND in the Big Sky differentiate UND in a positive way, or put UND on an island? As UND has more and more success, it probably makes being the Big Sky a better situation.

At some point, I expect UND to realize that being in a conference with SD, SDSU and NDSU helps them, and their perception in the region. Until then . . . carry on.

Per NCAA rules, two men's team sports need to qualify for auto bids in order for basetball's auto bid to survive. It's grace period for baseball is T minus 8 months, or its done for. That means the Summit has to get two more teams per the NCAA or it loses its basketball bid. ORU is already in the Summit for men's soccer. They won't be returning as student recruiting is 1000's of times better with Texas and Louisiana for Pentecostal students (yet alone athletes). SDSU fans can talk all there want, but there more interest in protecting Sioux Falls bid than the actual Slummit league. That is the Slummit's reality: only SDSU and USD treasure the conference and no one else. No schools were actually named by Johnston. Why is that? Nobody wants there names floating around, whether DI or DII. Every school invited to the Slummit except Denver and Centenary has been invited from DII ranks. It has been a beginner league all the time and nothing the changing that except for a TV contract (which it doesn't have). The more likely option is DII teams like Concordia (St Paul), Mankato, Duluth, Lindenwood, S Indiana, Bellarmine, but none of the are ready to commit until late spring .

UND 's alignment with the Big Sky helps with programs like the Medical school, EERC, Petroleum engineering, by associating academically with a conference in the western region. Fargo and Sioux Falls are not the target academically: the West is. Contrary to public opinion in Fargo, provincial Fargo and Sioux Falls media blowhards opinion does not determine academic and conference prestige.

The MVC reserves to right invite Murray St with an MVFC bid if it opens up. That school will be the target if an MVFC school (Mo St) leaves, as Murray State is a basketball school acceptable to MVC private schools. It's not to far for their precious bus league and opens up another state (Kentucky), allowing them to add Belmont later. If a private school is needed, they'll take Valpo (and the Horizon robs IPFW or Robert Morris). Conferences think strategically and SDSU and NDSU are not part of their vision for two and three steps down the road.

UND will only be an immediate fix for the Slummit, and for UND that is unacceptable. Douple can't cohesively lay out a plan if X, Y, and Z move. A conference is among the living dead if NJIT is added. When Denver leaves, or when IPFW leaves, or when IUPUI leaves, or Omaha, that opens an entirely new can of worns if UND if is in the Slummit.

[mg2009]

Better league based on what? And why would the MVC want to even out the balance of powers for the Summit teams in the MVFC? They already are opposed to traveling west the way it is. Patty V was also on record saying that 9 was the ideal conference size because it allowed for a balanced schedule. Adding USD made for an unbalanced schedule, but only 1 extra time. Why would they want to add another team to further unbalance the schedule?

again, adding UND will actually reduce the amount that eastern schools have to come to the dakotas. Diagram it out, you'll see that I am right. I'm not sure what you mean by 'evening out the balance of powers'. Patty V wants to keep her league alive, and that can't happen if the summit leaves (for whatever reason).

the summit is a better league based on quality of play. I'm surprised noone seems to be aware, but the BSC is one of the worst BB leagues in the country. The summit is firmly in the middle of the pack. Its much better financially as we'll get more games with team our fans actually would care about, and won't have to fly for our entire schedule.

Douple let UND's app sit there for how long before he even gave it a look, which coincidentally is right around the same time that the Big Sky started showing interest.. And for a second there I thought you last sentence was how NDSU got into the Mid-Con after getting rejected by the Big Sky multiple times.

It was also around the same time the nickname issue was finally resolved.

xDSU wanted to get into the sky because they thought that was the best they could do. Then WKU left the gateway, and they go the chance to make something even better, which they have.

[homer]

again, adding UND will actually reduce the amount that eastern schools have to come to the dakotas. Diagram it out, you'll see that I am right. I'm not sure what you mean by 'evening out the balance of powers'. Patty V wants to keep her league alive, and that can't happen if the summit leaves (for whatever reason).

the summit is a better league based on quality of play. I'm surprised noone seems to be aware, but the BSC is one of the worst BB leagues in the country. The summit is firmly in the middle of the pack. Its much better financially as we'll get more games with team our fans actually would care about, and won't have to fly for our entire schedule.

It was also around the same time the nickname issue was finally resolved.

xDSU wanted to get into the sky because they thought that was the best they could do. Then WKU left the gateway, and they go the chance to make something even better, which they have.

Careful, your true colors are showing through again. Summit is all about basketball and it hasn't beaten another D1 school yet this year. Like I said, conferences like the Big Sky and Summit are up and down and at the end of the day and will always be changing positions. What will you and other FU fans do when the Big Sky has a higher RPI?

Edit: I was mistaken- it's beat one.

[mg2009]

No schools were actually named by Johnston. Why is that? Nobody wants there names floating around, whether DI or DII.

thats because normal schools don't blab everything to the press the first chance they get.

Every school invited to the Slummit except Denver and Centenary has been invited from DII ranks.

the dakotas were already well into their transition when the were invited. just like und, unc, and half the rest of the big sky.

UND 's alignment with the Big Sky helps with programs like the Medical school, EERC, Petroleum engineering, by associating academically with a conference in the western region. Fargo and Sioux Falls are not the target academically: the West is. Contrary to public opinion in Fargo, provincial Fargo and Sioux Falls media blowhards opinion does not determine academic and conference prestige.

nothing says good academics like the big sky. Pro-tip: the only sky schools who have any academic rep don't have med schools. I have no idea how you think being in the sky helps the EERC or PE.

The MVC reserves to right invite Murray St with an MVFC bid if it opens up. That school will be the target if an MVFC school (Mo St) leaves, as Murray State is a basketball school acceptable to MVC private schools. It's not to far for their precious bus league and opens up another state (Kentucky), allowing them to add Belmont later. If a private school is needed, they'll take Valpo (and the Horizon robs IPFW or Robert Morris). Conferences think strategically and SDSU and NDSU are not part of their vision for two and three steps down the road.

way to make !@#$ up i guess

[SiouxVolley]

nothing says good academics like the big sky. Pro-tip: the only sky schools who have any academic rep don't have med schools. I have no idea how you think being in the sky helps the EERC or PE.

way to make !@#$ up i guess

So the PE program isn't the only one in the Big Sky? Their fracking in Utah, Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado, but that not important to Indiana or Illinois.

Rural medicine is a major issue in remote western regions.

If you don't believe it, wait six months or longer. See who's right. The MVC private schools have the power, and they don't want UND football because it removes a school like Murray State as a full candidate. If Murray State can't get football in, they can't move. Common sense.

[jdub27]

again, adding UND will actually reduce the amount that eastern schools have to come to the dakotas. Diagram it out, you'll see that I am right. I'm not sure what you mean by 'evening out the balance of powers'. Patty V wants to keep her league alive, and that can't happen if the summit leaves (for whatever reason).

Patty V answers to what the MVC wants, she is the Senior Associate Commissioner of that league along with running the MVFC. Which one do you think is more important to her? As for balance of powers, the MVFC is currently made up of 5 MVC teams, 4 Summit teams and YSU. Adding another Summit team gives the Summit equal footing for voting purposes. And Patty is on record saying she didn't like unbalanced scheduling, why would she advocate for adding another team to further get away from that?

the summit is a better league based on quality of play. I'm surprised noone seems to be aware, but the BSC is one of the worst BB leagues in the country.

Saying it doesn't make it true. The conferences are historically very near each other in the RPI rankings, switching who is ahead from year to year. The Summit has been ahead the last couple years, but losing two of its best basketball schools isn't going to help that. The tournament committee obviously doesn't see much of a difference as neither has sniffed a second bid and the conference champions continue to be ranked near each other in the NCAA tournament.

[mg2009]

Careful, your true colors are showing through again. Summit is all about basketball and it hasn't beaten another D1 school yet this year. Like I said, conferences like the Big Sky and Summit are up and down and at the end of the day and will always be changing positions. What will you and other FU fans do when the Big Sky has a higher RPI?

I love that any criticism of the route UND has taken over the last decade makes me some sort of NDSU double agent. When I wanted muss fired years ago (thats where i first got my rep here), it's because I wanted UND to fail and NDSU to win, before that, when I wanted UND to move up with NDSU and SDSU, it was because i was an NDSU fanboy. Same old dumb argument. It seems to me that UND has repeatedly gone down the wrong path because of this attitude that UND can't be seen following NDSU or doing anything that might have the side affect of benefiting NDSU, and in the long run all it's done is put UND in a worse position that it would otherwise be.

Yes, UND in the summit would benefit NDSU. It would also be good for UND and it's fans, most of whom live in the summit footprint. Hopefully some of you wake up before NDSU surpasses UND, because that is where the trend-lines lead.

[jdub27]

Yes, UND in the summit would benefit NDSU. It would also be good for UND and it's fans, most of whom live in the summit footprint. Hopefully some of you wake up before NDSU surpasses UND, because that is where the trend-lines lead.

What's the head to head record in Summit sponsored sports the last 3 years?

[mg2009]

So the PE program isn't the only one in the Big Sky? Their fracking in Utah, Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado, but that not important to Indiana or Illinois.

Rural medicine is a major issue in remote western regions.

and how does being in the big sky benefit that? (they have fracking in the midwest too)

If you don't believe it, wait six months or longer. See who's right. The MVC private schools have the power, and they don't want UND football because it removes a school like Murray State as a full candidate. If Murray State can't get football in, they can't move. Common sense.

The MVC private schools have no say whatsoever over the football conference, and they sure don't want another public football school. The only affiliation the MVC has with the MVFC are three words and 5 members, who form the power group opposite the private schools.

the MVC has shown no interest in further expansion. In fact, realignment is basically over at the d1 level, it isn't something that even gets talked about.

[mg2009]

What's the head to head record in Summit sponsored sports the last 3 years?

I wasn't talking about athletics with the last comment.

UND went 0-4 last year, not sure how many other games there have even been.

[jdub27]

I wasn't talking about athletics with the last comment.

UND went 0-4 last year, not sure how many other games there have even been.

You were talking about NDSU surpassing UND (I assumed in athletics since this whole thing is about how great the Summit is). My question was what is UND's head to head record with NDSU in Summit sponsored sports.

[bincitysioux]

who gives a !@#$ if we play any of the big sky schools? We could be playing denver in all sports twice a year, as well as all the others, instead of having the 'option' to play them. No-possible better arrangement my ass, our conference schedule is a yawn-fest.

What are you talking about? Basketball? Volleyball? Denver is good at hockey and skiiing and nothing else. Denver has never been to the NCAA tournament in Men's Basketball. They've had a nice few years recently because of a good coach. They are a huge hockey rival. That doesn't mean anyone gets excited for them in other sports at this point. Might as well join the NSIC based on this so we can see St Cloud and Duluth in every sport based on your logic.

You say "who give !@#$ about playing Big Sky schools? I say who gives a !@#$ about playing Summit schools. In the Big Sky, we get to play one of the best 50 college basketball programs of all time twice a year according to ESPN. You don't think that will make North Dakota better? What is the difference between playing the South Dakota schools vs. the Montana schools? They are both border battles.

If we are talking about college basketball, the fact that you think our conference schedule is "yawn-fest", then that tells me you no nothing about college basketball.

when did we ever try? The moment we got a look we told them to f-off in favor or our bottom feeder conference of choice. If we want to join the summit, the summit will get us in the mvfc. You know, the conferences that actually make sense for us. Your argument is that we should get in bed with the first loser that said we were pretty. Talk about low standards.

The summit is not on a run, it's a fundamentally different league. With half their schools barely out of transition, they were a top-half league, they aren't going to take a step back by adding another potential mid-major program in UND.

We tried from the day we started the transition. When UND moved to DI there was no effort to get into the Big Sky. It was all about the Summit and the Valley. After the nickname issue was put to bed, the Summit basically said yes, the MVFC said no thanks.

You think the Big Sky is a loser?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!

I liken the Big Sky to the old WCHA. It has its niche. It is hands down the best in the main sport that it focuses on, which is football. It is anchored by some brand name state schools that carry some weight. It doesn't have its best schools looking to move on to a "greener pastures" every single year................

[southpaw]

Patty V wants to keep her league alive, and that can't happen if the summit leaves (for whatever reason).

You've said this several times... where the heck are the Summit schools going to go?