dmksioux Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I agree that it's a good formula, but so is playing your biggest rival (and spare me the SDSU, UNI talk) every other year at home. The year that NDSU goes to UND, they could either get rid of their (home) warm up game or give up their money game (road game) and still play a "warm up" game.
jdub27 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 It is a possibility. There have been plenty of times in the rivalry when the better team lost. I wouldn't use that as a reason for not scheduling them. I'd use the "you stopped the rivalry. not us." excuse. What you should say is "you stopped the rivalry before we did" excuse. If UND wouldn't have dropped the rivalry when they did, NDSU would dropped it a few years later once NDSU was in a conference and didn't have have as many games to schedule. They weren't going to keep playing UND when it didn't help them out. UND would not still be on NDSU's schedule if UND wouldn't have dropped the game (which at the time, was to UND's benefit to do because of how the playoff selections worked). 1
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Of course there is interest, if this game were to be scheduled I would be first in line to get tickets. Once you have a few season in FCS where you are playoff eligible, UND fans will see why scheduling is done this way. Heck we learned it from Montana. When you have a tough conference, like MVFC or the Big Sky. Chances are you aren't going to get the autobid every year. Because of that, you want nonconference games that are DI counters and are more easily won games. So, you have 8 conference games, a "warm-up game", a money game, and another game that NDSU fans have shown interest in being a high quality OOC opponent. Does UND fit that bill? Yes. But if we agree to play the game every year, we take away the flexibility to bring in a high quality FCS team every so often. Be realistic guys, that is the blueprint for success and we are following it. You'll be doing the exact same thing within 2 years. Watch and see. The problem with that plan is "high quality" teams have bought out of coming to Fargo. So you end up playing teams like Morgan state and St Francis. What was the last OOC "high quality team" that came to Fargo for a regular season game?? How is that part of the plan working for you?
dmksioux Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 The problem with that plan is "high quality" teams have bought out of coming to Fargo. So you end up playing teams like Morgan state and St Francis. What was the last OOC "high quality team" that came to Fargo for a regular season game?? How is that part of the plan working for you? They are also having a tough time getting lower end teams coming to Fargo as is evidenced by still needing a game to open the season. I guess that's the price to pay for having a National Championship and for being so far away from a majority of FCS schools. Teams don't want to travel that far when the most likely result is, they are going to get spanked.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Seems to me you should apply for the AD position at NDSU with that sort of insight. NDSU would be foolish not to charge higher prices for games against Montana, Montana St or UND. The fact that they're near sellouts for teams like St Francis is proof of that. The potential financial gain is huge. Charging $10-15 dollars more would be near the equivalent of an FBS guarantee. If we restart the series annually NDSU's OOC schedule could look like this every 2 years: 1st year: home vs UND, home vs cupcake, road vs BCS conference team 2nd year: road vs UND, home vs cupcake, home vs cupcake or major FCS In that first year you get two big time paydays and eliminate the need to schedule the lesser FBS teams like a Colorado St game that likely won't be televised and instead you get a game only an hour away that would be televised to the entire fanbase. It absolutely makes sense financially for NDSU to schedule the game annually and it obviously makes sense for UND.
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 The problem with that plan is "high quality" teams have bought out of coming to Fargo. So you end up playing teams like Morgan state and St Francis. What was the last OOC "high quality team" that came to Fargo for a regular season game?? How is that part of the plan working for you? Valid point I suppose, but this is what NDSU fans want and I think the AD wants to continue to work toward. When I say high quality, it doesn't have to be Montana or Montana State. I would be pleased to see any team from the Southern or CAA. Gives us an early idea of how we might match up with teams from out east.
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 NDSU would be foolish not to charge higher prices for games against Montana, Montana St or UND. The fact that they're near sellouts for teams like St Francis is proof of that. The potential financial gain is huge. Charging $10-15 dollars more would be near the equivalent of an FBS guarantee. If we restart the series annually NDSU's OOC schedule could look like this every 2 years: 1st year: home vs UND, home vs cupcake, road vs BCS conference team 2nd year: road vs UND, home vs cupcake, home vs cupcake or major FCS In that first year you get two big time paydays and eliminate the need to schedule the lesser FBS teams like a Colorado St game that likely won't be televised and instead you get a game only an hour away that would be televised to the entire fanbase. It absolutely makes sense financially for NDSU to schedule the game annually and it obviously makes sense for UND. If you feel it makes so much sense for NDSU and is in NDSU's best interest, what is you opinion on why the game has yet to be scheduled? Spare me the GT is afraid rhetoric that is far too common on this forum.
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Valid point I suppose, but this is what NDSU fans want and I think the AD wants to continue to work toward. When I say high quality, it doesn't have to be Montana or Montana State. I would be pleased to see any team from the Southern or CAA. Gives us an early idea of how we might match up with teams from out east. You are telling me that you and other Bison fans would rather play Wofford and James Madison instead of UND?!! Do you really think that?
darell1976 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 If you feel it makes so much sense for NDSU and is in NDSU's best interest, what is you opinion on why the game has yet to be scheduled? Spare me the GT is afraid rhetoric that is far too common on this forum. Difference in AD's. GT-every other year. BF-every year. Since NDSU's OOC is full for the next 3 seasons I guess we will have to wait until 2015 where only Montana is on the schedule. But since that is a road game and a possible loss...I don't see UND on their schedule in 2015 either because of our track record in the Fargodome (4-1) or going 0-2 before a possible FBS game or MVFC play is not where NDSU would like to be.
82SiouxGuy Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 If you feel it makes so much sense for NDSU and is in NDSU's best interest, what is you opinion on why the game has yet to be scheduled? Spare me the GT is afraid rhetoric that is far too common on this forum. At least a part of it goes back to the "UND quit playing us and wouldn't help us through the transition so we aren't going to do anything to help them" thought process. A little bit anger, a little bit revenge. Throw in a little bit of "We don't want people to think UND is on the same level as NDSU". And a part that likes the "preferred schedule" you outlined above. And add in some difficulty finding a common open date. I'm probably missing some elements, but that covers a lot of the reasons it hasn't happened yet.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 If you feel it makes so much sense for NDSU and is in NDSU's best interest, what is you opinion on why the game has yet to be scheduled? Spare me the GT is afraid rhetoric that is far too common on this forum. I don't think it's a fear of losing, but while UND has been in transition NDSU has had infinitely more to lose from scheduling the game. I completely understand why the game hasn't been played during our overlapping transition years. If I were Taylor I would give us a year or two to establish ourselves in the Big Sky and FCS in general and then I would start scheduling the way I outlined it above. If the game can't be agreed upon once we are finally on even ground competitively again then I have to assume its a lingering bitterness over UND not "playing up" against NDSU when they were desperate for home games. I really hope that's not the case so we can finally restart the series.
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 You are telling me that you and other Bison fans would rather play Wofford and James Madison instead of UND?!! Do you really think that? Even though no matter what I say you won't believe me, the answer for me is yes. I will go on record as saying that I would rather see either of those teams on our home schedule than UND. Understand that I am most likely younger than you and the rivalry has been cold for almost a third of my life. NDSU aspires to national prominence and playing those teams any given year moves NDSU closer to their mission than playing UND.
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 At least a part of it goes back to the "UND quit playing us and wouldn't help us through the transition so we aren't going to do anything to help them" thought process. A little bit anger, a little bit revenge. Throw in a little bit of "We don't want people to think UND is on the same level as NDSU". And a part that likes the "preferred schedule" you outlined above. And add in some difficulty finding a common open date. I'm probably missing some elements, but that covers a lot of the reasons it hasn't happened yet. I agree with all of that and just re-read what you just wrote and you will see why this game is not likely to be played again for the next 5 years at least. Both programs have gotten along just fine without the game, I don't understand the constant push for this game to happen.
darell1976 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I agree with all of that and just re-read what you just wrote and you will see why this game is not likely to be played again for the next 5 years at least. Both programs have gotten along just fine without the game, I don't understand the constant push for this game to happen. Besides women's basketball its the only sport they have not renewed in. NDSU beat UND in men's basketball, volleyball, and baseball...UND beat NDSU in basketball, volleyball, and baseball. So the only sport left is football. And with the 9 million UND threads on BVille there would be a lot of interest.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Even though no matter what I say you won't believe me, the answer for me is yes. I will go on record as saying that I would rather see either of those teams on our home schedule than UND. Understand that I am most likely younger than you and the rivalry has been cold for almost a third of my life. NDSU aspires to national prominence and playing those teams any given year moves NDSU closer to their mission than playing UND. That's a very good point but if UND does find succes in the Big Sky, a NDSU-UND game could be as nationally relevant to the FCS community as the Montana-Montana St game, which is one of the biggest games on the FCS schedule every single year. Again, the game hasn't made sense to schedule until now.
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 That's a very good point but if UND does find succes in the Big Sky, a NDSU-UND game could be as nationally relevant to the FCS community as the Montana-Montana St game, which is one of the biggest games on the FCS schedule every single year. Again, the game hasn't made sense to schedule until now. Also, a good point. Obviously, UM-MSU game has the benefit of also being a conference game so all the arguments we have made are void in that situation. I think it is a game that will eventually happen and should happen now that UND is through the transition, but I completely understand why NDSU is reluctant to play the game every year. And to be honest, I think it is likely that UND's AD would regret getting into a yearly contract with NDSU once he realizes how scheduling in FCS is done.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Also, a benefit to the annual series that has only been lightly touched on is the scheduling stability. An annual series would leave no chance for a buyout. Both NDSU and UND found themselves in tough scheduling positions because of buyouts for next season. I imagine both Faison and Taylor would have preferred to have each other on the schedule than the games that got bought out.
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Pros to a yearly game- Scheduling Stability Having a long time rival on the schedule Cons to a yearly game- Lack of flexibility in OOC scheduling One more loss on schedule for one of us each year Feel free to add as you see fit. 1
82SiouxGuy Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Also, a benefit to the annual series that has only been lightly touched on is the scheduling stability. An annual series would leave no chance for a buyout. Both NDSU and UND found themselves in tough scheduling positions because of buyouts for next season. I imagine both Faison and Taylor would have preferred to have each other on the schedule than the games that got bought out. Add to that the fact that both schools have had difficulty bringing opponents to North Dakota. NDSU has probably had to over pay for cupcakes and that doesn't make sense for UND. Having good quality games that will be pretty much guaranteed to make money are hard to turn down. It's almost like having another conference game.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Also, a good point. Obviously, UM-MSU game has the benefit of also being a conference game so all the arguments we have made are void in that situation. I think it is a game that will eventually happen and should happen now that UND is through the transition, but I completely understand why NDSU is reluctant to play the game every year. And to be honest, I think it is likely that UND's AD would regret getting into a yearly contract with NDSU once he realizes how scheduling in FCS is done. Obviously there are pros and cons to both sides of the argument but considering the history of the rivalry and what it means to the state, the fact that there are pros at all should mean Taylor and Faison need to work through whatever differences they have over the matter and make it happen.
johnson Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I am sure NDSU didn't schedule UND right away after both moved up was because of "pay-back". It no longer is because of that. If it was then GT wouldn't have sent an every other year contract to BF. The fact of the matter is Faison didn't like the idea and denied it. Taylor didn't like the idea of every year and wouldn't entertain it. It doesn't really matter what us fans think. You can flame away all you want about why it hasn't happened. Season ticket sales will top 10,000 this year at NDSU and they have a formula that has proven to work. I don't think anyone would start tweaking that formula simply because UND wants to play again. If I was sitting in GT's position I would do the same thing. He sent a contract to Faison that gave NDSU a little room to make it work to get the schools playing again while not totally disrupting the way they have been doing things. Faison didn't sign because it didn't work with what they were trying to do. It's simple as that. Once UND gets their feet wet in the BSC I would be willing to bet a contract that makes both sides happy will eventually surface. If this problem was simply being blocked by one side or the other because of sour grapes we would've heard about that already. The fact that we aren't hearing anything like that means to me that both sides understand the others problems and are working on figuring it out. Think about this for a minute, if Faison would've agreed to the every other year contract the first game would've been played already.
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Even though no matter what I say you won't believe me, the answer for me is yes. I will go on record as saying that I would rather see either of those teams on our home schedule than UND. Understand that I am most likely younger than you and the rivalry has been cold for almost a third of my life. NDSU aspires to national prominence and playing those teams any given year moves NDSU closer to their mission than playing UND. I seriously hope that all Bison fans don't share your same opinion. Wow!!! I don't think I heard about NDSU students standing in line outside the dome 7 hours prior to the St. Francis game!! We have not played for 9 years now. But I gaurantee if we did, things would get heated up again. Heck, if they announced a game in 2015, it would be talked about on message boards, family gatherings, what have you, for the next 3 years!!! Th rivalry will always be there. We just need the game to solidify it!!!
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I seriously hope that all Bison fans don't share your same opinion. Wow!!! I don't think I heard about NDSU students standing in line outside the dome 7 hours prior to the St. Francis game!! We have not played for 9 years now. But I gaurantee if we did, things would get heated up again. Heck, if they announced a game in 2015, it would be talked about on message boards, family gatherings, what have you, for the next 3 years!!! Th rivalry will always be there. We just need the game to solidify it!!! Don't ask the question and then change the parameters once I answer. You asked about Wofford and James Madison, not St. Francis. Of course there would be more interest in a UND game from casual fans. But, for my part, I would rather see Wofford at home. Like I said earlier, it gives us more of an idea of where we stand nationally to play teams from the east coast. I get sick of hearing all the CAA teams say that the MVFC is no good, so playing a team from the CAA or the Southern Conference would bring with it some credibility in their eyes. Also, many NDSU fans camped out for all of the playoff games this year. I don't mean this as an insult, but to those of you who haven't been following NDSU over the years, it doesn't take UND on our schedule to get people crazy about Bison football the way it does for UND fans in Grand Forks.
darell1976 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Don't ask the question and then change the parameters once I answer. You asked about Wofford and James Madison, not St. Francis. Of course there would be more interest in a UND game from casual fans. But, for my part, I would rather see Wofford at home. Like I said earlier, it gives us more of an idea of where we stand nationally to play teams from the east coast. I get sick of hearing all the CAA teams say that the MVFC is no good, so playing a team from the CAA or the Southern Conference would bring with it some credibility in their eyes. Also, many NDSU fans camped out for all of the playoff games this year. I don't mean this as an insult, but to those of you who haven't been following NDSU over the years, it doesn't take UND on our schedule to get people crazy about Bison football the way it does for UND fans in Grand Forks. I don't see GT getting a home and home with App State or even a road game there...why does everyone have to come to Fargo? Its too bad that GSU backed out. It happens. But that is one team out of how many that NDSU could have scheduled but would rather have Cupcake A & B at home instead of the "quality" East Coast teams. Funny how UND signed a home and home with Montana before NDSU did.
Bison06 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I don't see GT getting a home and home with App State or even a road game there...why does everyone have to come to Fargo? Its too bad that GSU backed out. It happens. But that is one team out of how many that NDSU could have scheduled but would rather have Cupcake A & B at home instead of the "quality" East Coast teams. Funny how UND signed a home and home with Montana before NDSU did. When you have more bargaining power you get to dictate the terms, I thought everyone who went to UND was a lawyer you should have known that. Why do you think Montana was happy to schedule that with UND, but wouldn't with NDSU?
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