NHL 2010-2011

[jimdahl]

A year or two ago, I asked for feedback on the mix of forums on this message board. One idea that a few people liked that stuck with me was having a separate forum for non-UND sports. We actually already had one, but it was mostly focused on local high school hockey, which had previously been dominating the community forum, so we hid it away as a subforum of that. Now that the high school sports traffic has moved on to its own forum, reviving this for things like NHL, BCS football, etc... makes a lot of sense to me, because everyone who comes here is a sports fan. I still expect there to be some NHL talk in the UND Hockey forum, and so forth, and that's fine for now, but I thought a central place for it might actually encourage the conversation.

I'll kick it off with an NHL 2010-2011 thread -- what's up with my poor slumping Caps? With essentially the same team that won the franchise's first ever Presidents Trophy, they've now lost six in a row and yielded the league lead to the only team worse than the Penguins -- the Flyers The pundits say that everyone studied the Montreal tape and figured out how to slow the Caps down, by holding them to perimeter and stopping them from getting off inside shots. That sounds ridiculous to me, in that wouldn't your defensive strategy always be to hold the opposing offense to the perimeter?

Hopefully the boys can turn things around before the Winter Classic, starting with Anaheim tonight!

[Smoggy]

Not only losing but 7-0 against the Rangers??? Dang Jim that isn't good.

Since topic of nhl is up, has anyone seen the NHL 24 hours show or whatever it is called on HBO?

[Ray77]

Awesome story!

Tom Fenton found, signed by Coyotes

[The Sicatoka]

What to call this ...

Former goon fights for elephant ...

Someone notices the elephant in the room ...

The pugilist and the pachyderm ...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/Georges-Laraque-tries-to-move-lonely-elephant-121610?GT1=39002

[jimdahl]

Since topic of nhl is up, has anyone seen the NHL 24 hours show or whatever it is called on HBO?

I don't have HBO anymore, but the local media coverage says the storyline is pretty much the predictable Sainted Crosby vs. Evil Russian. That's to be expected, but apparently watching Boudreau rip into the Caps mid-losing streak is a riot.

In anticipation of the Winter Classic, Crosby and Ovechkin on Price is Right on Monday. The Post got the footage in advance:

Ovechkin, Crosby on the Price is Right (<- this has the video)

I'm not sure how to describe Ovechkin here, but "well-groomed" isn't the first phrase that springs to mind. And I'd say Crosby is a bit wooden, except I fear that would be insulting many lively and interesting fir trees.

Also, the look on the contestant's face when she realizes she might be able to win a January trip from Southern California to Western Pennsylvania, plus some tires, is pretty special.

[Goon]

Penguins' Cooke shouldn't change his ways

I have a response for that Uber Hack Matt Cooke is up to his old tricks.

[Goon]

You're predictable, Goon. Thanks for giving me a good laugh.

Huh! I aim to please...

[Goon]

Uber hack Lucic up to his usual tricks

I bet Goon finds this behavior perfectly acceptable, but if Matt Cooke did the same exact thing it would somehow be viewed differently. Right Goon?

Meyer hit Lucic with a questionable hit and then he ran his mouth and Lucic popped him... The NHL decided that there was no need for a suspension...

[Big A HG]

Hawks are starting to roll lately now that they have some goaltending help. Crawford has been solid in goal (even though he was scratched due to an illness tonight)...very Niemi like, nothing stellar, just solid. Turco has been somewhat of a bust, but if he can find a rhythm, the Hawks will contend come playoff time again. The young guys are starting to find a groove, which is a big plus.

[redwing77]

I know I'm inciting a response but...

How is Kane's actions vs. Cooke in the least bit like Cooke's actions? Cooke and Kane dropped the gloves in a fight. Kane rocked Cooke and knocked him out. It's as simple as that. Had Cooke dropped the gloves with anyone and issued a knockout blow in the same manner, I bet no one would make a big deal of it. Why?

Because fighting is legal in the NHL.

Elbowing people to the back of the head is not. Cooke's actions in the past has shown that he's always been one to make cheap hits.

Sorry DaveK, there's a difference between getting rocked in a fight where both combatants agreed to drop the gloves and getting rocked by a blindside hit to the back of the head.

And Cooke isn't the only NHLer who has a bad reputation. Sean Avery is still (and probably forever will be) trying to recover from the reputation he gained for himself time and time again.

Cooke's hit against Lucic could easily be seen as "Cheap" but I don't really think it is an illegal hit. I watched the video a few times myself and it is true Cooke hit hight and head contact was made, but I can't truly see whether the shoulder was hit first or the head. I don't think this was "typical" Cooke goonery, because it was pretty clear to me that Cooke was trying to eliminate Lucic from the puck in a legal way and it just happened to hit high. Savard''s hit was clearly illegal and cheap. This hit wasn't as clear cut to me.

EDIT: And Cooke was a hack while he was with Vancouver. Take your Penguin shaded glasses off and look at the players. I'm no fan of the Pens, but I recognize most of them. Sorry, I'll never be a fan of Fleury, Cooke, or Crosby but I respect the organization and especially Lemieux.

As for the Blackhawks: Turco is a bust this season. There is a difference though: he's signed to a 1 year contract. It is true that he has been no better than Huet, but he has done something in his career despite his failings this season. Huet had 1 decent year and promptly got overpaid by about $2 million. Crawford has done ok.

I still think the Hawks won't make the Finals. Two big players (Kane and Hossa) have been put on IR. That's a lot to overcome... Kane is anyways. Hossa, well, the Hawks are used to overpaid players going on the IR a lot (see Havlat before Hossa).

What an odd year in the NHL. Fleury emerges as an overrated goaltender, Price actually starts playing hockey... Osgood is still out on the ice solely because they want to give him 400 wins. Awfully nice of the Red Wings, but unnecessary. Osgood should have been cut after last season. Oh well.

Crosby, as much as I dislike what the NHL and Hockey media have done to him, has been a beast. Ovechkin has been an "also ran" for much of this season...

What a strange season.

[Goon]

I don't think that I'm a biased Penguins fan because I am willing to call out Penguins for thuggery when I see it. For example, I don't appreciate what Deryk Engelland brings to the team. He's nothing but a straight up goon, and I have no use for that kind of player. I felt the same way about Georges Laraque when they had him. Matt Cooke, on the other hand, is loved by the entire Penguins fanbase (not just me). His job is to get under the skin of players on the other team, and he is very good at it. What I see is that Goon and many other hockey fans hate the guy for no other reason than merely being very good at what is paid to do. However, I would be willing to bet that the majority of the fans who hate him would love him if he played for their favorite team. And, for the record, I can't stand Sean Avery. That stunt he pulled against Brodeur in the playoffs a couple of years ago was bush league beyond belief.

DAVE by any chance do you like Claude "the Fraud" Lemieux...

[Goon]

I know I'm inciting a response but...

How is Kane's actions vs. Cooke in the least bit like Cooke's actions? Cooke and Kane dropped the gloves in a fight. Kane rocked Cooke and knocked him out. It's as simple as that. Had Cooke dropped the gloves with anyone and issued a knockout blow in the same manner, I bet no one would make a big deal of it. Why?

Because fighting is legal in the NHL.

Elbowing people to the back of the head is not. Cooke's actions in the past has shown that he's always been one to make cheap hits.

Sorry DaveK, there's a difference between getting rocked in a fight where both combatants agreed to drop the gloves and getting rocked by a blindside hit to the back of the head.

And Cooke isn't the only NHLer who has a bad reputation. Sean Avery is still (and probably forever will be) trying to recover from the reputation he gained for himself time and time again.

Cooke's hit against Savard could easily be seen as "Cheap" but I don't really think it is an illegal hit. I watched the video a few times myself and it is true Cooke hit hight and head contact was made, but I can't truly see whether the shoulder was hit first or the head. I don't think this was "typical" Cooke goonery, because it was pretty clear to me that Cooke was trying to eliminate Lucic from the puck in a legal way and it just happened to hit high. Savard''s hit was clearly illegal and cheap. This hit wasn't as clear cut to me.

EDIT: And Cooke was a hack while he was with Vancouver. Take your Penguin shaded glasses off and look at the players. I'm no fan of the Pens, but I recognize most of them. Sorry, I'll never be a fan of Fleury, Cooke, or Crosby but I respect the organization and especially Lemieux.

As for the Blackhawks: Turco is a bust this season. There is a difference though: he's signed to a 1 year contract. It is true that he has been no better than Huet, but he has done something in his career despite his failings this season. Huet had 1 decent year and promptly got overpaid by about $2 million. Crawford has done ok.

I still think the Hawks won't make the Finals. Two big players (Kane and Hossa) have been put on IR. That's a lot to overcome... Kane is anyways. Hossa, well, the Hawks are used to overpaid players going on the IR a lot (see Havlat before Hossa).

What an odd year in the NHL. Fleury emerges as an overrated goaltender, Price actually starts playing hockey... Osgood is still out on the ice solely because they want to give him 400 wins. Awfully nice of the Red Wings, but unnecessary. Osgood should have been cut after last season. Oh well.

Crosby, as much as I dislike what the NHL and Hockey media have done to him, has been a beast. Ovechkin has been an "also ran" for much of this season...

What a strange season.

Fixed your post... Actually this season it's not a legal hit anymore. I don't Care what team Cooke plays for he is a guttless puke much like Claude the Fraude and Ulfie... If he became a Bruin I would have to stop watching them and cheering for them.

[Goon]

Matt Cooke, on the other hand, is loved by the entire Penguins fanbase (not just me). His job is to get under the skin of players on the other team, and he is very good at it. What I see is that Goon and many other hockey fans hate the guy for no other reason than merely being very good at what is paid to do. However, I would be willing to bet that the majority of the fans who hate him would love him if he played for their favorite team. And, for the record, I can't stand Sean Avery. That stunt he pulled against Brodeur in the playoffs a couple of years ago was bush league beyond belief.

Dave my friend are you baiting me? I would rather have Sean Sloppy Seconds Avery on my team any, at least he will fight, Cooke will only fight smaller players and he is hated league wise...

[jimdahl]

Crosby, as much as I dislike what the NHL and Hockey media have done to him, has been a beast. Ovechkin has been an "also ran" for much of this season...

What a strange season.

My read on Washington is that Boudreau decided the old formula wasn't winning playoff series and is trying to make the Caps more defensive. Needless to say it's been a tough transition, but even after a month-long slump Ovechkin is still T-6th in scoring in the league. It's just been easy to miss, especially if you're watching the highlight reels instead of the games, because instead of flashy goals he's mostly getting assists.

However, Crosby has certainly finally broken out and delivered on some of the promise all the experts saw in him. It's been pretty difficult to make a case for him as MVP in any of his previous years, but if he can keep this up...

[Goon]

My read on Washington is that Boudreau decided the old formula wasn't winning playoff series and is trying to make the Caps more defensive. Needless to say it's been a tough transition, but even after a month-long slump Ovechkin is still T-6th in scoring in the league. It's just been easy to miss because instead of flashy goals he's getting assists.

However, Crosby has certainly finally broken out. It's been pretty difficult to make a case for him as the best player in the league any of his previous years, but if he can keep this up...

I would take Ovie over Cindy Crosby any day... If I had to choose between Malkin and Cindy I would take Malkin... Just my opinion. I am tired of Crosby's antics.

[redwing77]

I don't think that I'm a biased Penguins fan because I am willing to call out Penguins for thuggery when I see it. For example, I don't appreciate what Deryk Engelland brings to the team. He's nothing but a straight up goon, and I have no use for that kind of player. I felt the same way about Georges Laraque when they had him. Matt Cooke, on the other hand, is loved by the entire Penguins fanbase (not just me). His job is to get under the skin of players on the other team, and he is very good at it. What I see is that Goon and many other hockey fans hate the guy for no other reason than merely being very good at what is paid to do. However, I would be willing to bet that the majority of the fans who hate him would love him if he played for their favorite team. And, for the record, I can't stand Sean Avery. That stunt he pulled against Brodeur in the playoffs a couple of years ago was bush league beyond belief.

I don't know what the players around the league think of Cooke.

He's dangerous. He has a reputation as Goon has mentioned of fighting only players smaller than he is and he makes rather blatant hits that bend even the most strident of hockey fans' towards the "cheap" category.

If his value was so high in the instigating category, I HIGHLY DOUBT Vancouver would have let him walk. Vancouver doesn't have much of anyone who can instigate anything more than a minor kerfuffle.

You want someone who can instigate better than many? How about Atlanta's Byfuglien? Or Detroit's Holmstrom? Neither have a history (or much of one) of making yearly additions to the "Cheap Hit" archive.

And, yeah, I consider you to be biased. And for the record, I'm biased when it comes to Red Wings hockey. I don't much mind you being biased as a Pens fan as long as you don't try to come across as anything different.

As for Ovie, I keep on watching the media machine that is the NBA-based Bettman freak show and think more and more on how Ovechkin was simply brought along to promote a rival for Crosby rather than truly highlight how good of a hockey player he is. If it was how good he was, you'd see a lot more promotions of players like Iginla, Nash, Toews, Kane, Kovalchuk (a few years ago anyways), Parise, Vanek, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, heck even Stamkos! Stamkos is starting to be mentioned in the same breath but...

I'm not sure who I'd take between the two. I am not a fan of both of their on ice tactics. Crosby has been a crybaby on the ice and Ovechkin has made a few questionable (if not overly cheap) hits in his past.

But Jim is right. If Crosby can keep up this kind of play over a full season (not necessarily having 84+ game point streaks but still) he'll start earning some of the overwhelming accolades garnered on him all of the time.

But nothing will stop me chafing at all the heavy breathing put on by the NHL PR department and the sports media. I don't care how great those two are.

[tho0505]

This may have been already addressed, but I've been watching the HBO series 24/7: Road to the Winter Classic. As a Wild I still love it. We'll worth the time. Episode 2 is out now as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt6Aqf--DP8

[The Sicatoka]

Congratulations.

You've just been awarded the next NHL franchise.

If you win a Stanley Cup in the first ten years you owe nothing.

If you don't, you have to give the franchise back (and you owe any money you may have lost along the way).

As part of the deal you get to take one current NHL player from any team, with no penalty, to start your team.

Then we go with the standard expansion draft to complete your roster.

So, who ya takin' to start your franchise?

[Goon]

Congratulations.

You've just been awarded the next NHL franchise.

If you win a Stanley Cup in the first ten years you owe nothing.

If you don't, you have to give the franchise back (and you owe any money you may have lost along the way).

As part of the deal you get to take one current NHL player from any team, with no penalty, to start your team.

Then we go with the standard expansion draft to complete your roster.

So, who ya takin' to start your franchise?

Ovechkin, Tim Thomas, Malkin would be my first three picks...

[redwing77]

Congratulations.

You've just been awarded the next NHL franchise.

If you win a Stanley Cup in the first ten years you owe nothing.

If you don't, you have to give the franchise back (and you owe any money you may have lost along the way).

As part of the deal you get to take one current NHL player from any team, with no penalty, to start your team.

Then we go with the standard expansion draft to complete your roster.

So, who ya takin' to start your franchise?

Toews, Ovechkin, Byfuglien, Johnathon Quick or Ondrej Pavalec....

I didn't choose Thomas because I wanted a younger goaltender that may have better years in front of him than Thomas despite Thomas obviously being the best for this year.

Toews is a steady, young leader who has been to the big dance and can set up anyone. Ovechkin will be a pure finisher. Byfuglien is both a good D (not great but good) and an excellent instigator. He also has a ton of grit.

If I chose more, the next two picks would be Nic Lidstrom and Kris Letang.

I'd probably go Crosby after them. Not because he's a bad player, but I don't like the media circus Crosby creates and though it is awfully nice when you have the NHL Front Office, ESPN, and the NHL Network as your top 3 fans, I'd like to build a team that builds respect instead of having hype garnish upon the team.

You know what I mean? Build to your potential instead of stretching to fulfill the hype.

[jimdahl]

Toews, Ovechkin, Byfuglien, Johnathon Quick or Ondrej Pavalec....

I think the most interesting part of the game of having to choose a single player is deciding which position is most critical. You get (who you think is) the best in the game at one position, but then have to build around him with unprotected players.

As a real owner I'd want scoring, because that puts butts in the seats (though in all fairness, the Wild took a decidedly different approach). In this game, where all you care about is maximizing the chance of a championship within 10 years, it sure would be tempting to take a goaltender. But goaltenders also seem higher risk -- it's easy to guess which young forwards will still be making an impact in 5-10 years, but I feel less confident about Quick or Pavelec...

[redwing77]

I think the most interesting part of the game of having to choose a single player is deciding which position is most critical. You get (who you think is) the best in the game at one position, but then have to build around him with unprotected players.

As a real owner I'd want scoring, because that puts butts in the seats (though in all fairness, the Wild took a decidedly different approach). In this game, where all you care about is maximizing the chance of a championship within 10 years, it sure would be tempting to take a goaltender. But goaltenders also seem higher risk -- it's easy to guess which young forwards will still be making an impact in 5-10 years, but I feel less confident about Quick or Pavelec...

It's also really hard to build a young team that can win it all under the salary cap.

If I could build a team, I'd build the team similarly to the Hawks... but I wouldn't deviate to sign a journeyman goaltender and call him my #1. They've done that so often over time. However, the two times they signed their own young goaltender, they've done better than they have done since 1961. The last two goaltenders they signed to NHL contracts and stood pat with them? Belfour in 1987-8 and Antti Niemi in 2009-10.

Ok, ok, I see your point otherwise, but I can't go back 5 years in the past. Because if I did, I'd love to build a team around Lidstrom. However, Lidstrom is 40 this year. Can't build around a player who has a very short time left in the league left, even if he is still among the best at 40.

But yeah, my ideal player to build around is a defenseman who can play solid D, great in the offensive zone, and is a solid leader on and off the ice... I just described Lidstrom.

[The Sicatoka]

Toews, Ovechkin, Byfuglien, Johnathon Quick or Ondrej Pavalec....

Good list. I'm not a Ovechkin guy so I'd swap him out for Crosby. Byfuglien is an interesting name to pop up.

I'd look for a guy who makes those around him better. That screams Toews or Crosby.

I'm with Jim: I'm not confident in taking a goalie in this scenario

[jimdahl]

He is clearly beyond a shadow of a doubt the greatest player of this generation, just as Gretzky (not Super Mario) was the greatest player of his generation. I'm quite confident that every single NHL coach and GM would choose Sid in this scenario... he's that good.

Your pick was a foregone conclusion, but this is a bit much. Sid's great, but you and the NHL try almost too hard to convince people of that, which probably hurts your cause.

After hearing him hyped as the next Gretzky for much of his youth, I haven't really heard it much after his first couple years in the league. Now that some results are in:

Sid after 5 NHL seasons

1 Hart (writers' MVP)

1 Art Ross (scoring title)

1 Pearson (players' MVP)

1 Stanley Cup

Gretzky after 5 NHL seasons

5 Harts

4 Art Ross

4 Pearson

1 Stanley Cup

One thing they do have in common, neither got a Calder (though for Gretzky it's because he was ineligible, not considered a rookie).

Sid is one of a few great young players in the NHL right now, but he's no Gretzky.

[redwing77]

Your pick was a foregone conclusion, but this is a bit much. Sid's great, but you and the NHL try almost too hard to convince people of that, which probably hurts your cause.

After hearing him hyped as the next Gretzky for much of his youth, I haven't really heard it much after his first couple years in the league. Now that some results are in:

Sid after 5 NHL seasons

1 Hart (writers' MVP)

1 Art Ross (scoring title)

1 Pearson (players' MVP)

1 Stanley Cup

Gretzky after 5 NHL seasons

5 Harts

4 Art Ross

4 Pearson

1 Stanley Cup

One thing they do have in common, neither got a Calder (though for Gretzky it's because he was ineligible, not considered a rookie).

Sid is one of a few great young players in the NHL right now, but he's no Gretzky.

He shoots... HE SCORRRRRREEEESSS!!!!!!!!!!

Precisely.

He may END UP the best player of his generation, but that's something that can be awarded him upon his retirement.

As was already pointed out, he was good his first five seasons but it is only this year that, imo, he's truly become dominant.

Gretzky was basically dominant well.. he started his dominance about 15 seconds into his first shift.

At the rate Gretzky went, Crosby would have to score an insane amount of points to get even close.

Crosby is by far one of the top 3 players in the NHL. He may even be #1. But the stupid comparisons and the absolutely ridiculous amount of media fawning is making him absolutely unbearable.

It's kind of like going over to a friend's house to see their new kid and, though the kid is cute as all getout, does really cute things, and is absolutely adorable in every respect, you spend the entire time there being reminded of it. Wouldn't you get tired of it? In fact, I think it is a very good comparison because if you brought this up to the kid's parents, what would they say? "Oh, you'd just love to have a kid who is as cute and as well behaved as him!"

It's funny how people think I'm anti-Crosby. I'm not. I'm against everything the NHL and the media has done to him. I truly believe that it does little to promote the league as a whole. It just, predictably, made Pittsburgh the most popular team in the NHL.