bincitysioux Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Faison is the one who wants the game bad, beggars can't be choosers If Faison wanted the game so bad and was "begging" for it, I suspect he would have taken Taylor's every other year offer. 1
bincitysioux Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Congrats to NDSU for making the playoffs............. On a side note, I find it rather ironic that Montana losing to NDSU in 2003 is what essentially kept the Bison out of the DII playoffs that year, and now 7 years later, another Montana loss is essentially what put NDSU into the playoffs.
WYOBISONMAN Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 We'll agree to disagree...NDSU is in the playoffs mainly due to a game they shouldn't have won: The KU game. Your same record argument takes into accout that it was a given that NDSU would beat KU. It happened but wasn't a 7th win factored into the minds of Bohl and Taylor prior to the start of the season. You can point to the Griz scheduling a D2 game, which is what it is, but if the Griz beat a cupcake FCS team over a D2 team, like this year and still lose to MSU and NDSU still beats KU...the Griz are still out. Pretty obvious! Montana in the final poll was still ranked higher than NDSU so a non-conference win over a patsy FCS team instead of a D2 team doesn't get you past the fact they needed to beat MSU under any scheduling scenerio you want to propose...again pretty obvious. I would agree that no one that is in their right mind would have penciled in a KU win. And.....I bet no one thought the Bison would be making the playoffs this year (except a few kool-aid drinkers). I know I sure didn't. After the end of the regular season, I still didn't think we would get in. I had actually tuned into the selection show to see where they would place UNI after their season finale flop. 1 1
Oxbow6 Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 If Faison wanted the game so bad and was "begging" for it, I suspect he would have taken Taylor's every other year offer. IMO if this game doesn't get renewed, it's on Faison. Why not take every other year to start with? Both sides need to put some ego aside and get this thing rolling again. Fasion needs to be the bigger man and go with the every other year deal for starters!
homer Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 IMO if this game doesn't get renewed, it's on Faison. Why not take every other year to start with? Both sides need to put some ego aside and get this thing rolling again. Fasion needs to be the bigger man and go with the every other year deal for starters! Its not all of Faison. There is an agreement out there that they could both give a little and come to an agreement. If he would take the every other year offer I could care less but for Taylor to just throw his offer out there and than point the finger and say he's not accepting our offer shows his arrogance. If you ask random people across the state how often they want the game to be played a vast majority would say every year. I have no problem with our AD and coaches digging in a little and not giving in and not stroking Taylors ego. Once the USD vs. SDSU game starts there will be even more pressure by the fans across ND to get the game started again.
Yote 53 Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 If UND accepts the NDSU offer for every other year the precedent will be set and the UND/NDSU game will forever be every other year. UND knows this and knows that with every passing year the pressure will continue to mount on NDSU until finally NDSU will have to give in and accept playing every other year. I'd wait em out if I was UND.
WYOBISONMAN Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 If UND accepts the NDSU offer for every other year the precedent will be set and the UND/NDSU game will forever be every other year. UND knows this and knows that with every passing year the pressure will continue to mount on NDSU until finally NDSU will have to give in and accept playing every other year. I'd wait em out if I was UND. Yup......for sure a boy from SD is an expert on this.....you make me laugh!
homer Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Yup......for sure a boy from SD is an expert on this.....you make me laugh! Says the guy from Wyoming 1
Oxbow6 Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 I think the rule is: You need 7 D1 wins to attain an at-large FCS playoff bid. Montana only had 6 D1 wins, so it's not as much SOS in this case as it is not meeting the minimum qualifications to even be considered. You could make the arguement though that Montana had a risky schedule by playing a non-counter D2 opponent. collegesportingnews.com "Am I speaking Chinese?" I get the 7 D1 win scenerio. IF IF IF IF the Griz would have beaten MSU, they would have received an at-large bid...PERIOD!!! That's what I'm trying to say. I get they played a D2 team. But...(exasperated)...I need to leave now and take some more blood pressure meds.
Yote 53 Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 It's simple negotiation tactics. I'm not claiming to be an expert. If UND gives in to every other year the problem will be deemed "solved". If UND maintains the every year stance, which appears to be a populist view in ND, they stay on the side of the popular view and can just wait, let the pressure accumulate on NDSU, and eventually get what they want. Especially if UND continues an annual game with USD, then the people of ND will begin to ask if USD, a MVFC member with the same schedule as NDSU, can play an annual game with UND then why can't NDSU? UND could then say they are open to replacing USD with NDSU. USD people wouldn't like it, but would understand the situation.
FargoBison Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 If UND accepts the NDSU offer for every other year the precedent will be set and the UND/NDSU game will forever be every other year. UND knows this and knows that with every passing year the pressure will continue to mount on NDSU until finally NDSU will have to give in and accept playing every other year. I'd wait em out if I was UND. Um, UND could agree to an every other year deal and then just demand to play every year or just stop playing once the first home and home is completed. There are more ways to negotiate than what you are implying and I think an every year game is going to happen a lot faster if the two schools just play a game first. Yes mooncountry, had Montana played Morgan State instead of Western State they would have been in the playoffs.
Oxbow6 Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 This is why you are confusing me: My understanding for this is if Mont is 7-4 with 7 D1 wins, they are in this year, and NDSU is out. But you state above that they are "still out" if they play an FCS patsy instead of a D2 school... not true. MSU in that scenario does not matter, because Mont would have already had 7 counter wins. My source, from Missoula, said he heard that even a 7 win Griz team with all wins vs. D1 FCS teams still would of been out vs. this year's 7 win Bison with their win at KU. Just saying what I heard...and I don't have a dog in this fight.
jodcon Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 My source, from Missoula, said he heard that even a 7 win Griz team with all wins vs. D1 FCS teams still would of been out vs. this year's 7 win Bison with their win at KU. Just saying what I heard...and I don't have a dog in this fight. Probably would have depended on who the 7th win was, if one of the 7 wins would have been Eastern Washington or Montana State they probably would have got in, if their 7th win would have been another stiff I'm not sure it would have really helped them. Even if the Griz would have beaten Montana State last week and got in, I don't think it would have cost NDSU. I think NDSU was in either way, beating Kansas paved the way early.
star2city Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 It's simple negotiation tactics. I'm not claiming to be an expert. If UND gives in to every other year the problem will be deemed "solved". If UND maintains the every year stance, which appears to be a populist view in ND, they stay on the side of the popular view and can just wait, let the pressure accumulate on NDSU, and eventually get what they want. Especially if UND continues an annual game with USD, then the people of ND will begin to ask if USD, a MVFC member with the same schedule as NDSU, can play an annual game with UND then why can't NDSU? UND could then say they are open to replacing USD with NDSU. USD people wouldn't like it, but would understand the situation. Appreciate your posts, Yote 53. You're spot on. With scheduled non-conference games vs USD now actually conference games as well as the cancellation of the Ga Southern game, Taylor has more openings.
star2city Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Probably would have depended on who the 7th win was, if one of the 7 wins would have been Eastern Washington or Montana State they probably would have got in, if their 7th win would have been another stiff I'm not sure it would have really helped them. Even if the Griz would have beaten Montana State last week and got in, I don't think it would have cost NDSU. I think NDSU was in either way, beating Kansas paved the way early. NDSU was the last school in, according to the Youngstown State rep on the selection committee. Any of six or seven teams would have got in before NDSU if those teams had won last week.
Ole in MSP Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 NDSU was the last school in, according to the Youngstown State rep on the selection committee. Any of six or seven teams would have got in before NDSU if those teams had won last week. Strange then if NDSU was the last team in that they would essentially get a "bye" by having to play cupcake ROMO. Obviously money talks with the NCAA. Maybe SUU could have bought their way in. They likely are a better opponent for NDSU than ROMO in spite of their record. USD beat Minnesota and SUU hammered USD so with that line of thinking SUU should have gotten at least an at large berth as undefeated conference champion.
Cratter Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 "Am I speaking Chinese?" I get the 7 D1 win scenerio. IF IF IF IF the Griz would have beaten MSU, they would have received an at-large bid...PERIOD!!! That's what I'm trying to say. I get they played a D2 team. But...(exasperated)...I need to leave now and take some more blood pressure meds. I am here for you Oxbow. I completely get what you are saying. People forget where all this "disagreement" started. WyoBison thought Montana would get in with a "stronger schedule." Stronger schedule...no. Self inflicted...yes. If they don't give the game to MSU w one turnover after another, they go and you sit. Exactly. "Stronger Schedule" not necessarily. Those are arbitrary words. Hindsight it 20/20. When Montana saw their schedule in the beginning of the year they weren't like Oh no a D2 team. Maybe we should not have scheduled them cause they will get us out of the playoffs. As Oxbow said: It's simple. Win more games and Montana makes the playoffs.
Cratter Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Strange then if NDSU was the last team in that they would essentially get a "bye" by having to play cupcake ROMO. Obviously money talks with the NCAA. Maybe SUU could have bought their way in. They likely are a better opponent for NDSU than ROMO in spite of their record. USD beat Minnesota and SUU hammered USD so with that line of thinking SUU should have gotten at least an at large berth as undefeated conference champion. Maybe people can educate me on FCS playoffs, but it sounds like it needs to be reevaluated. Sounds like the decisions are made in a smoke filled backroom. Oh and by the way, its not a hard set rule you can't make the playoffs without seven wins: The won-loss record is
star2city Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Strange then if NDSU was the last team in that they would essentially get a "bye" by having to play cupcake ROMO. Obviously money talks with the NCAA. Maybe SUU could have bought their way in. They likely are a better opponent for NDSU than ROMO in spite of their record. USD beat Minnesota and SUU hammered USD so with that line of thinking SUU should have gotten at least an at large berth as undefeated conference champion. Bisonmedia: NDSU last team in Only the top five teams are seeded. The other fifteen are essentially considered "equal", with the top bids chosen to host. Minimizing travel and avoiding conference matchups in the first few rounds also affect the bracket (but not the selections).
jodcon Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 NDSU was the last school in, according to the Youngstown State rep on the selection committee. Any of six or seven teams would have got in before NDSU if those teams had won last week. I guess the Griz in fact would have taken NDSU's spot, I didn't realize Robert Morris was an autobid, I thought they were the last team picked. Stars were aligned for the Bison, sweat out getting in and then hosting a game, couldn't have worked out better.
Ole in MSP Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 Bisonmedia: NDSU last team in Only the top five teams are seeded. The other fifteen are essentially considered "equal", with the top bids chosen to host. Minimizing travel and avoiding conference matchups in the first few rounds also affect the bracket (but not the selections). Seventy five per cent of the teams in a tournament are not seeded, they are all equal, but get to host if they bid the highest? Unbelievable, no believable, this is the NCAA we are talking about..... OR is it our way of life now that elective offices in government in this country are also awarded to the people who have the most money. Credibility, for sure, what a country!
Oxbow6 Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 I am here for you Oxbow. I completely get what you are saying. People forget where all this "disagreement" started. WyoBison thought Montana would get in with a "stronger schedule." Exactly. "Stronger Schedule" not necessarily. Those are arbitrary words. Hindsight it 20/20. When Montana saw their schedule in the beginning of the year they weren't like Oh no a D2 team. Maybe we should not have scheduled them cause they will get us out of the playoffs. As Oxbow said: It's simple. Win more games and Montana makes the playoffs. Thank you...I really didn't think, based on the schedules that were played this season, that the who's in and who's out would be so difficult to comprehend given certain scenerios. NDSU was the last team in...KU got them in and that's good for them. They won enough games with strenghth of schedule to gain that last spot. Montana didn't but beating a D2 team wasn't the reason they didn't get in.
Matt Posted November 25, 2010 Author Posted November 25, 2010 It's simple negotiation tactics. I'm not claiming to be an expert. If UND gives in to every other year the problem will be deemed "solved". If UND maintains the every year stance, which appears to be a populist view in ND, they stay on the side of the popular view and can just wait, let the pressure accumulate on NDSU, and eventually get what they want. Especially if UND continues an annual game with USD, then the people of ND will begin to ask if USD, a MVFC member with the same schedule as NDSU, can play an annual game with UND then why can't NDSU? UND could then say they are open to replacing USD with NDSU. USD people wouldn't like it, but would understand the situation. I think Star mentioned what I think is the best rationale for UND accepting NDSUs offer: the Sioux FB program needs an NDSU home game to improve season ticket numbers. Admin should tie the bison game into a purchase requirement for other games, or require anything but the worst GA seating to buy season tickets in order to have the bison game included.
82SiouxGuy Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 I think Star mentioned what I think is the best rationale for UND accepting NDSUs offer: the Sioux FB program needs an NDSU home game to improve season ticket numbers. Admin should tie the bison game into a purchase requirement for other games, or require anything but the worst GA seating to buy season tickets in order to have the bison game included. Season ticket numbers will improve with the new conference, especially when Montana is coming to town. I don't think that UND should jump into a bad deal just to get NDSU on the schedule. Faison needs to make sure that the deal makes sense for UND.
Oxbow6 Posted November 26, 2010 Posted November 26, 2010 Fixed your post for ya... You Bison guys sure do like to beat the dead horse 7 D1 win scenerio...but then you all are from an Ag school. I get it! Semantics...bottom line is the KU win got you in and it's a game none of you penciled in before the year started. You SU fans, on Thanksgiving, should be vey thankful for that "W".
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