Shawn-O Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Your absolutely right Shawn. This usually sums it up: -NDSU does something good= Great vision and leadership -NDSU does something bad= The media and UND alumni are holding us down. Its their fault, their jealous. -UND does something good= You could not have done that without the great vision and leadership at NDSU. Just riding NDSU's coattails. -UND does something bad= Poor leadership and vision at UND. Trying to cut corners and just be a follower. My 3 year old nephew takes the same approach when comparing himself to his peers. This is the mentality that the past leadership had at NDSU as well. If you weren't with them than they basically told you to !@#$ off it was Joe's way or Joe's way, thats the only two options. It worked for him, I won't deny he did great things for NDSU and North Dakota. But when you take that stance you have to understand people are going to jump on you for mistakes you make, not cause of jealousy but because along the way you told them to !@#$ off and did it your own way and now they are just returning the favor. It's an "us against the world" culture of non-accountability that manifested itself over Chapman's tenure. You are correct, there were some very good things done on his watch, that's undeniable. But as usually is the case, the aggressive growth came with a price. They now need to work through the aftermath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 It would be wrong to assume that 3066 waivers means 3066 students had 100% of their tuition waived. I'd be curious to the backdown of gender, race and nationality. I bet you would be suprised to see who's getting a tuition waiver! One of my buddies is an upper level class undergrad and grad school prof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 It would be wrong to assume that 3066 waivers means 3066 students had 100% of their tuition waived. You have to make some assumptions when doing calculations without all of the details. I made a straight-line assumption because no other data was available. I'm sure I'd have been jumped on for making any other assumption too, so I took the most straight-forward. The following is undeniable however: Waiving $11 million bucks and then coming up short nearly $2 million says NDSU needs better accounting, accountability, or to give fewer waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 So you're saying half the NDSU student population gets a 50% waiver? Or nearly the whole enrollment gets a 25% wiaver? 3066 waivers could mean 2000 students have 25% waivers, 533 have 50% waivers and 533 have 100% waivers. In other words, one "waver" represents one student with some percentage of his/her tuition waived. One waiver does not represent 100% of tuition being waived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I'd be curious to the backdown of gender, race and nationality. I bet you would be suprised to see who's getting a tuition waiver! One of my buddies is an upper level class undergrad and grad school prof. What do those things have to do with it? If they display a specific ability that the university finds valuable, then a tuition waiver may very well be in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 What do those things have to do with it? If they display a specific ability that the university finds valuable, then a tuition waiver may very well be in order. If you are bringing in high numbers of foreign students for research and grad programs at no cost for their education, how valuable can it be when you are running a budget deficit and have a hiring freeze? Theses tuition waivers aren't for the C+ high school grads from Hawley, MN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 3066 waivers could mean 2000 students have 25% waivers, 533 have 50% waivers and 533 have 100% waivers. In other words, one "waver" represents one student with some percentage of his/her tuition waived. One waiver does not represent 100% of tuition being waived. Spin it however you want, but the numbers are what they are. When you are giving away $ 11 mil in tuition and you have a budget deficit, maybe you shouldn't be giving so much away for free! Sounds like Peloso is at the helm at NDSU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 If they display a specific ability that the university finds valuable, then a tuition waiver may very well be in order. If that's the case, NDSU needs to re-evaluate how it's figuring the "cost-to-benefit" ratio. Clearly, with a $1.8 million budget problem they aren't getting the expected benefits from the known costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 If you are bringing in high numbers of foreign students for research and grad programs at no cost for their education, how valuable can it be when you are running a budget deficit and have a hiring freeze? Theses tuition waivers aren't for the C+ high school grads from Hawley, MN. I've already told you the importantence: expanding the grad programs and research. You have to have (good) grad students to make it work. And, as sad as it may be, most US grad students these days come from the Asian continent. Do you realize how many Chinese and Indian students come to the U of Minn every year? That's what you have to do if you want to spend hundreds of millions on research...the white, American undergrads want their 4-year degrees and then they want jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Spin it however you want, but the numbers are what they are. When you are giving away $ 11 mil in tuition and you have a budget deficit, maybe you shouldn't be giving so much away for free! Sounds like Peloso is at the helm at NDSU! It's what has to be done to attract grad students to NDSU. You do realize how cold and windy it is in Fargo, right? And that NDSU is not yet a major recognized graduate program to international students, like the U of Minn and U of Wisc are, right? I'm not saying any debt is excusable if it's used to attract grad students. They will address the issue and correct it. But once again, like with Chapman's house, this very minor non-issue is being blown WAY out of scope here by a few because they want to pretend that it somehow tarnishes NDSU. I just don't get such petty, bitter bickering behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 If that's the case, NDSU needs to re-evaluate how it's figuring the "cost-to-benefit" ratio. Clearly, with a $1.8 million budget problem they aren't getting the expected benefits from the known costs. How are you in a position to quantify what the benefit of attracting those grad students to the university is? 1.8 million may be peanuts in the long run. Once NDSU's research spending hits the $200 million mark, we'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I've already told you the importantence: expanding the grad programs and research. You have to have (good) grad students to make it work. And, as sad as it may be, most US grad students these days come from the Asian continent. Do you realize how many Chinese and Indian students come to the U of Minn every year? That's what you have to do if you want to spend hundreds of millions on research...the white, American undergrads want their 4-year degrees and then they want jobs. Is the U of M in a $2 mil budget deficit? Your explanation doesn't get to the fact that it is not fiscally prudent to give away free tution to whoever in a time of a budget deficit. You comment about white American undergrads is pathetic...even for an ass like yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Is the U of M in a $2 mil budget deficit? Your explanation doesn't get to the fact that it is not fiscally prudent to give away free tution to whoever in a time of a budget deficit. You comment about white American undergrads is pathetic...even for an ass like yourself! I'm not arguing that it is fiscally prudent. I'm arguing that it's a non-issue, that it will be corrected and that having a major research program will benefit NDSU in the long run far more than the short run cost of 1.8 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 How are you in a position to quantify what the benefit of attracting those grad students to the university is? They're costing NDSU new full-time faculty hires right now due to the hiring freeze due to the budget deficit. What's that worth? Given that faculty brings in the research ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 They're costing NDSU new full-time faculty hires right now due to the hiring freeze due to the budget deficit. What's that worth? Given that faculty brings in the research ... In the long run they'll be fine. I can't see this being the cause of a major downturn in the university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 How about a couple facts. First, NDSU is not running a deficit. It might in the future, but not at this moment. The hiring freeze is precautionary, not reactionary. Where do the bulk of tuition payments come from? Answer: banks and other lenders. Who took the biggest hit last year and are slow to lend money? Banks and other lenders. Anyone else think that banks might be waiting until the last minute to transfer the student loan money in order to maximize their interest potential? Banks would never do that, right? [/sarcasm] In any case, $1.8 million is maybe two days of operating money for NDSU. Our annual budget is around $275 million, so the potential deficit is about two-thirds of one percent, and that will shrink as the late tuition money comes in. As far as the hiring freeze, it may not have any impact on the students at all. Most hirings wouldn't occur until spring anyway, and the freeze is expected to be lifted before then. At most, the searches might see their starts delayed a month. If we were in a job-hunters' market, then that would be a problem. But there are far more applicants than positions, so NDSU would still get a good group of candidates even if we're a bit late to the table. What we actually have here is one of the worst presidents ever to sit in an office. His public relations skills make that Iraqi information minister guy look like a genius. It doesn't help that the Forum has started acting like a junkie trying to score his next fix.(I'm watching Law & Order) Instead of helping it get clean, our idiot of an interim president is serving up helpings of crack with a beautiful meth and speed side dish. And the laughs just keep coming with today's story. As much as I want to, I can't completely blame the Forum for running this stuff. They're desperate to sell papers in a dying industry, and anti-NDSU stories are proven to do that. Sometimes rearranging deck chairs is all you can do before you go under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Right. Yet another minor issue is way overblown in order to sell media. That's what they have to do these days to survive...rile people up to get attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMD Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 How about a couple facts. First, NDSU is not running a deficit. It might in the future, but not at this moment. The hiring freeze is precautionary, not reactionary. Where do the bulk of tuition payments come from? Answer: banks and other lenders. Who took the biggest hit last year and are slow to lend money? Banks and other lenders. Anyone else think that banks might be waiting until the last minute to transfer the student loan money in order to maximize their interest potential? Banks would never do that, right? [/sarcasm] In any case, $1.8 million is maybe two days of operating money for NDSU. Our annual budget is around $275 million, so the potential deficit is about two-thirds of one percent, and that will shrink as the late tuition money comes in. As far as the hiring freeze, it may not have any impact on the students at all. Most hirings wouldn't occur until spring anyway, and the freeze is expected to be lifted before then. At most, the searches might see their starts delayed a month. If we were in a job-hunters' market, then that would be a problem. But there are far more applicants than positions, so NDSU would still get a good group of candidates even if we're a bit late to the table. What we actually have here is one of the worst presidents ever to sit in an office. His public relations skills make that Iraqi information minister guy look like a genius. It doesn't help that the Forum has started acting like a junkie trying to score his next fix.(I'm watching Law & Order) Instead of helping it get clean, our idiot of an interim president is serving up helpings of crack with a beautiful meth and speed side dish. And the laughs just keep coming with today's story. As much as I want to, I can't completely blame the Forum for running this stuff. They're desperate to sell papers in a dying industry, and anti-NDSU stories are proven to do that. Sometimes rearranging deck chairs is all you can do before you go under. NDSU is in a budget shortfall because banks aren't lending? Really? What bank(s) does NDSU use? We should alert all other institutions of higher education that use these same banks and give them a heads up... BTW...your html code is in error. You need a [sarcasm] to precede your [/sarcasm]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 NDSU is in a budget shortfall because banks aren't lending? Really? What bank(s) does NDSU use? We should alert all other institutions of higher education that use these same banks and give them a heads up... BTW...your html code is in error. You need a [sarcasm] to precede your [/sarcasm]. What part about students borrowing money from banks to pay their tuition payments confuses you? If the banks haven't sent those tuition payments to NDSU yet, then it would appear as a budget shortfall. Why don't we wait until all the money is in before jumping to conclusions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudd Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 What part about students borrowing money from banks to pay their tuition payments confuses you? If the banks haven't sent those tuition payments to NDSU yet, then it would appear as a budget shortfall. Why don't we wait until all the money is in before jumping to conclusions? maybe something has changed since I went to school but if the student loans weren't in by about mid term, they ask the student to pay up. Part of an agreement on student loans is that the bank has to pay by a certian date, this shouldn't have anything to do with banks holding money longer than they should but possibly NDSU thinking they would get the money before they were scheuled to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMD Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 What part about students borrowing money from banks to pay their tuition payments confuses you? If the banks haven't sent those tuition payments to NDSU yet, then it would appear as a budget shortfall. Why don't we wait until all the money is in before jumping to conclusions? I understand that students borrow money from banks to pay their tuition. Medical school is expensive...trust me I understand. If you and Hammersmith are correct that the current budget shortfall is due to banks witholding payment then why aren't all colleges/universities in the state/region/nation all facing similar budget shortfalls? Why is NDSU being singled out? Do banks hate the Bison? It's Alerus bank...isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreSiouxForYou Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 A budget is a plan of what is to come. A budget shortfall means that what NDSU is expecting for income is short of what is going to be needed to cover expenses. It has nothing to do with banks payins as stated above they are only given a certain amount of time. Yes they hold as long as possible to maximize profitability but... they are still obligated to make that payment in time. There would be HUGE repercusions if they did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I understand that students borrow money from banks to pay their tuition. Medical school is expensive...trust me I understand. If you and Hammersmith are correct that the current budget shortfall is due to banks witholding payment then why aren't all colleges/universities in the state/region/nation all facing similar budget shortfalls? Why is NDSU being singled out? Do banks hate the Bison? It's Alerus bank...isn't it? Maybe the students are delinquent in getting certain forms filled out that the banks need first before they send the tuition payment into NDSU? I don't know..and I'm not really that interested in it. It's a very small issue and it doesn't deserve the attention it's getting, like a lot of things covered by the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreSiouxForYou Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Maybe the students are delinquent in getting certain forms filled out that the banks need first before they send the tuition payment into NDSU? I don't know..and I'm not really that interested in it. It's a very small issue and it doesn't deserve the attention it's getting, like a lot of things covered by the media. At your post yesterday at 2:30 with a bad excuse it stopped being about the Shortfall and more about the bad excuses you were giving for a lot of the posters. No worries, i agree it doesn't make that big of a difference in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMD Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Maybe the students are delinquent in getting certain forms filled out that the banks need first before they send the tuition payment into NDSU? I don't know..and I'm not really that interested in it. It's a very small issue and it doesn't deserve the attention it's getting, like a lot of things covered by the media. Maybe...the US Postal Service neglected to deliver the forms in a timely manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.