Is There Another Win on the Schedule?

[Shawn-O]

I would say, yes. No conference affiliation on the horizon, no playoff scenario that can be achieved. Like Coach Dags says, take wins/losses out of the equation, Coach Jones is working hard and the other stuff very well. Kids aren't in trouble in the community, no ones flunking out of school, etc.

There will come a time when he has to put a MUCH better team on the floor, just not sure its now and don't think a real high caliber coach would be that interested in UND when you consider the hill we are trying to climb for at least a couple more years.

The conference situation is huge, I have to agree. Hopefully they can pick it up by the bootstraps and improve as the season goes along, there's really nowhere to go but up after the other night. And even under less than ideal circumstances, it's nice to see some chatter about the program out here.

[star2city]

I would say, yes. No conference affiliation on the horizon, no playoff scenario that can be achieved. Like Coach Dags says, take wins/losses out of the equation, Coach Jones is working hard and the other stuff very well. Kids aren't in trouble in the community, no ones flunking out of school, etc.

There will come a time when he has to put a MUCH better team on the floor, just not sure its now and don't think a real high caliber coach would be that interested in UND when you consider the hill we are trying to climb for at least a couple more years.

As far as the emphasis on the off-court stuff: yes that is a +. Look at Binghamton and their move to DI.

But some of the rest is just excuses for worse than mediocrity. DI mediocrity is 200-300 on the RPI scale. To be on the tale end of a RPI bell curve - dropping 50 points on the RPI from last year - is shameful to UND. Not only are we worse than 98% of DI, but the majority of DII, as well as much of DIII and NAIA.

Our RPI rating indicates that losing to Mayville State is "expected". It was not a bad loss, per se, based on RPI strength.

USD has more disadvantages than UND does, yet they sit 150 points higher on RPI.

There has been a conference affiliation on the horizon an it's been apparent for almost a year. When NDSU recruited their class of 09, they had nothing. NOTHING - crappy facilities, no conference (the Big Sky had just rejected them), no realistic hope for an autobid - the MidCon invited them a couple year later. NDSU had NOTHING yet Miles was able to recruit those players. There are other examples too: Texas A&M - Corpus Christi with Ronnie Arrow was able to recruit as an independent and their first year in the Southland they made the NCAA's and performed well. It is difficult? Yes. Is it impossible? No.

I supported Mussman during this year: by far the worst game was Southern Oregon. His teams pass all the other tests: is the talent building to a higher level, do we have hope for next year, are the athletes performing well in and out of the classroom, are playoffs a reasonable hope once the transition is complete?

For Mussman: yes, yes, yes, yes

For Jones: no, no, yes, no

For Roebuck: no, yes, yes, no

[UND92,96]

I'm not a big fan of comparing scores, but for whatever it's worth, USD defeated Mayville State 99-67 a few weeks ago.

[fgoSioux]

As far as the emphasis on the off-court stuff: yes that is a +. Look at Binghamton and their move to DI.

But some of the rest is just excuses for worse than mediocrity. DI mediocrity is 200-300 on the RPI scale. To be on the tale end of a RPI bell curve - dropping 50 points on the RPI from last year - is shameful to UND. Not only are we worse than 98% of DI, but the majority of DII, as well as much of DIII and NAIA.

Our RPI rating indicates that losing to Mayville State is "expected". It was not a bad loss, per se, based on RPI strength.

USD has more disadvantages than UND does, yet they sit 150 points higher on RPI.

There has been a conference affiliation on the horizon an it's been apparent for almost a year. When NDSU recruited their class of 09, they had nothing. NOTHING - crappy facilities, no conference (the Big Sky had just rejected them), no realistic hope for an autobid - the MidCon invited them a couple year later. NDSU had NOTHING yet Miles was able to recruit those players. There are other examples too: Texas A&M - Corpus Christi with Ronnie Arrow was able to recruit as an independent and their first year in the Southland they made the NCAA's and performed well. It is difficult? Yes. Is it impossible? No.

I supported Mussman during this year: by far the worst game was Southern Oregon. His teams pass all the other tests: is the talent building to a higher level, do we have hope for next year, are the athletes performing well in and out of the classroom, are playoffs a reasonable hope once the transition is complete?

For Mussman: yes, yes, yes, yes

For Jones: no, no, yes, no

For Roebuck: no, yes, yes, no

The best post I've ever seen..

I agree with you 100%.

What does Jones offer us??? Absolutely NOTHING!

[star2city]

The best post I've ever seen..

I agree with you 100%.

What does Jones offer us??? Absolutely NOTHING!

What's increasingly apparent is that the former NCC schools need each other in basketball.

Attendance helps gain better recruiting, recruiting gains wins, wins mean attendance. Right now, all the NCC schools are in a negative feedback cycle (NDSU's "glory" was short-lived and soon forgotten by the general public - their current RPI only 50 pts higher than UND's).

A 10,000 person turnout for UND-NDSU in the Ralph would do wonders for recruiting. Add in games vs USD and SDSU for 5000 each in the Ralph. Get one or two games annually vs N Iowa or Montana for another 5000.

With all four + UMKC in an I-29 corridor division (+ perhaps Denver), the recruiting aspirations can be higher. All four schools need to compete against the Horizon and MVC for recruits. Attendance and game excitement is what is needed to turn the cycle positive. NDSU and USD also badly need new venues.

[coach daddy]

What's increasingly apparent is that the former NCC schools need each other in basketball.

Attendance helps gain better recruiting, recruiting gains wins, wins mean attendance. Right now, all the NCC schools are in a negative feedback cycle (NDSU's "glory" was short-lived and soon forgotten by the general public - their current RPI only 50 pts higher than UND's).

A 10,000 person turnout for UND-NDSU in the Ralph would do wonders for recruiting. Add in games vs USD and SDSU for 5000 each in the Ralph. Get one or two games annually vs N Iowa or Montana for another 5000.

With all four + UMKC in an I-29 corridor division (+ perhaps Denver), the recruiting aspirations can be higher. All four schools need to compete against the Horizon and MVC for recruits. Attendance and game excitement is what is needed to turn the cycle positive. NDSU and USD also badly need new venues.

Then why did we all leave the NCC? We all need each other now but we played against each other in the best DII conference in the nation; why are we all DI now? I need a refresher.

[FargoBison]

Then why did we all leave the NCC? We all need each other now but we played against each other in the best DII conference in the nation; why are we all DI now? I need a refresher.

Because DII is a joke.

Maybe that is a bit harsh, but DII athletics are pretty much an afterthought across the nation. The NCC needed to either move up or break up.

[badger1]

What's increasingly apparent is that the former NCC schools need each other in basketball.

Attendance helps gain better recruiting, recruiting gains wins, wins mean attendance. Right now, all the NCC schools are in a negative feedback cycle (NDSU's "glory" was short-lived and soon forgotten by the general public - their current RPI only 50 pts higher than UND's).

A 10,000 person turnout for UND-NDSU in the Ralph would do wonders for recruiting. Add in games vs USD and SDSU for 5000 each in the Ralph. Get one or two games annually vs N Iowa or Montana for another 5000.

With all four + UMKC in an I-29 corridor division (+ perhaps Denver), the recruiting aspirations can be higher. All four schools need to compete against the Horizon and MVC for recruits. Attendance and game excitement is what is needed to turn the cycle positive. NDSU and USD also badly need new venues.

more like, 1,800 people

[Ah Go Sioux]

I agree that we need to bring into GF some more familiar opponents. However, those opponents won't gaurantee us high attendance numbers. Finding a permanent conference will bring better recruits and should result in more wins and more people coming to ball games. It wasn't that long ago when MBB would get 3,000+ for conference games (7,500 for NDSU)

[coach daddy]

Because DII is a joke.

Maybe that is a bit harsh, but DII athletics are pretty much an afterthought across the nation. The NCC needed to either move up or break up.

So was DII a joke when NDSU won their football and Womens BBall titles? Was it a joke when UND won its football title and womens bball titles, or when Coach Glass took the Sioux to consecutive Elite 8's in the early 90's? We were playing each other, the So. Dak. schools and the Minnesota schools who seemed to be pretty competitive then too. Mankato's women won the DII title in bball last year, Duluth won a football title also.

Now we are all trying to get into the same conference to play each other again. I just don't get it. You say DII sucks but NDSU has had one basketball team make the dance, SDSU has had one womens team make the dance and their football team made the tourney (they gave up 64 pts. but thats another post). So now what? No opportunity for titles, maybe a chance to play in the tournament(s) every 5-10 years, if a great recruiting class comes along but other than that, we are all just satisfied being average, or at least in UND's case right now, praying for average in bball.

I just don't get it.

[FargoBison]

So was DII a joke when NDSU won their football and Womens BBall titles? Was it a joke when UND won its football title and womens bball titles, or when Coach Glass took the Sioux to consecutive Elite 8's in the early 90's? We were playing each other, the So. Dak. schools and the Minnesota schools who seemed to be pretty competitive then too. Mankato's women won the DII title in bball last year, Duluth won a football title also.

Now we are all trying to get into the same conference to play each other again. I just don't get it. You say DII sucks but NDSU has had one basketball team make the dance, SDSU has had one womens team make the dance and their football team made the tourney (they gave up 64 pts. but thats another post). So now what? No opportunity for titles, maybe a chance to play in the tournament(s) every 5-10 years, if a great recruiting class comes along but other than that, we are all just satisfied being average, or at least in UND's case right now, praying for average in bball.

I just don't get it.

For me DII football became a joke when NDSU was sent to play at Delta State, that was confirmed after we went DI and I saw UND play at Michigan Tech. Our schools just completely outclass DII football, they belong on the same level as Montana, Delaware, Georgia Southern, Northern Iowa, etc. I think the opportunity definitely exists to win a national title on the FCS level for either one of our schools.

As for basketball, DII ball is a joke. Nobody cares and on the men's side the better players will always want to go DI. Our latest recruiting class features the kind of talent we wouldn't even sniff in DII. Winning the Summit title and going to the big dance was a great experience, the NCAA tournament on the DI level is an amazing thing to be a part of.

As for the women's side...while I don't think the DI label is as big a deal for women's recruits, our schools are funded better than many DI women's basketball programs and that includes some BCS schools. We are at the level where we belong. In fact that is what the DI move is all about, taking our schools to the level that they belong.

Just look at NDSU softball, they won an NCAA regional, had multiple games on ESPNU, and finished ranked in the top 25. In DII if they made it to the regional maybe WDAY gives them a sports feature story and then they post the tourney scores on the 10 p.m. news.

The NCC was cool and all, but it was holding our schools back. Be happy to move onto the Summit, I could really careless about the Minnesota schools, if the Summit adds UND to NDSU/SDSU/USD it took the best parts from the NCC as far as I am concerned. I'll gladly trade Oral Roberts for Mankato and Oakland for St. Cloud. Of course I might have a different perspective since NDSU is not a hockey school, we don't really have rivalries with them or a lot in common with them.

[coach daddy]

For me DII football became a joke when NDSU was sent to play at Delta State, that was confirmed after we went DI and I saw UND play at Michigan Tech. Our schools just completely outclass DII football, they belong on the same level as Montana, Delaware, Georgia Southern, Northern Iowa, etc. I think the opportunity definitely exists to win a national title on the FCS level for either one of our schools.

As for basketball, DII ball is a joke. Nobody cares and on the men's side the better players will always want to go DI. Our latest recruiting class features the kind of talent we wouldn't even sniff in DII. Winning the Summit title and going to the big dance was a great experience, the NCAA tournament on the DI level is an amazing thing to be a part of.

As for the women's side...while I don't think the DI label is as big a deal for women's recruits, our schools are funded better than many DI women's basketball programs and that includes some BCS schools. We are at the level where we belong. In fact that is what the DI move is all about, taking our schools to the level that they belong.

Just look at NDSU softball, they won an NCAA regional, had multiple games on ESPNU, and finished ranked in the top 25. In DII if they made it to the regional maybe WDAY gives them a sports feature story and then they post the tourney scores on the 10 p.m. news.

The NCC was cool and all, but it was holding our schools back. Be happy to move onto the Summit, I could really careless about the Minnesota schools, if the Summit adds UND to NDSU/SDSU/USD it took the best parts from the NCC as far as I am concerned. I'll gladly trade Oral Roberts for Mankato and Oakland for St. Cloud. Of course I might have a different perspective since NDSU is not a hockey school, we don't really have rivalries with them or a lot in common with them.

First, we throw softball out of the equation right away, volleyball too. This move wasn't made for either of those programs. You should be proud of their success' but 95% of the supporters aren't attending either contests.

My biggest fear in this whole thing, and I'm sure its my age showing here, is that we now have a chance to win championships in 1 sport, football. The only reason for that is that the NCAA split football into 2 categories. If there was no FCS in DI football, neither of us would be talking about championships in that sport either. Now, maybe down the road, the big conferences will get tired of sharing the basketball revenue with the small conferences and the NCAA will divide basketball into 2 divisions like football; who knows.

I just remember the days when the we hosted regional tournaments at UND and played for national titles in all sports, not just hockey. Those were great times. We had lots of local athletes play in all sports at UND and NDSU, now those days are about gone, both our basketball teams at UND can attest to that right now.

Like I said, its probably me showing my age, but it used to be about championships and playing for titles. Now we dream about teams like NDSU had last year. Making the tournament, drawing Kansas and losing by 15. I guess the definition of success has changed.

[Bison Dan]

First, we throw softball out of the equation right away, volleyball too. This move wasn't made for either of those programs. You should be proud of their success' but 95% of the supporters aren't attending either contests.

My biggest fear in this whole thing, and I'm sure its my age showing here, is that we now have a chance to win championships in 1 sport, football. The only reason for that is that the NCAA split football into 2 categories. If there was no FCS in DI football, neither of us would be talking about championships in that sport either. Now, maybe down the road, the big conferences will get tired of sharing the basketball revenue with the small conferences and the NCAA will divide basketball into 2 divisions like football; who knows.

I just remember the days when the we hosted regional tournaments at UND and played for national titles in all sports, not just hockey. Those were great times. We had lots of local athletes play in all sports at UND and NDSU, now those days are about gone, both our basketball teams at UND can attest to that right now.

Like I said, its probably me showing my age, but it used to be about championships and playing for titles. Now we dream about teams like NDSU had last year. Making the tournament, drawing Kansas and losing by 15. I guess the definition of success has changed.

Well hell's bells if it is all about championships and titles we should have just moved to DIII or NAIA. Playing in one of the best sporting events in the world and giving Kansas all they want is success no matter what some people think.

[star2city]

First, we throw softball out of the equation right away, volleyball too. This move wasn't made for either of those programs. You should be proud of their success' but 95% of the supporters aren't attending either contests.

My biggest fear in this whole thing, and I'm sure its my age showing here, is that we now have a chance to win championships in 1 sport, football. The only reason for that is that the NCAA split football into 2 categories. If there was no FCS in DI football, neither of us would be talking about championships in that sport either. Now, maybe down the road, the big conferences will get tired of sharing the basketball revenue with the small conferences and the NCAA will divide basketball into 2 divisions like football; who knows.

I just remember the days when the we hosted regional tournaments at UND and played for national titles in all sports, not just hockey. Those were great times. We had lots of local athletes play in all sports at UND and NDSU, now those days are about gone, both our basketball teams at UND can attest to that right now.

Like I said, its probably me showing my age, but it used to be about championships and playing for titles. Now we dream about teams like NDSU had last year. Making the tournament, drawing Kansas and losing by 15. I guess the definition of success has changed.

With the move to DI, the goal is now conference championships, not national championships. The fan base has to adjust to that and it won't be easy. Even SDSU, which is a basketball-mad school, has trouble marketing it's men's BB team. Considering how well their women's team does, it doesn't draw all that well either. An upcoming USD-SDSU women's game seems to be galvanizing their fan base even more than their national success. As far as post-season events, would hope that GF and the Alerus Center would bid on Summit post-season tournament: four schools would surely bring fans. Until Sioux Falls gets a new arena, the Alerus would have a shot.

What is questionable is how sports like golf, baseball, softball, in which we were marginal at the DII level, can ever expect to be half-way competitive in DI. DI, at least for a school like UND, is about being the best in can be in niches that best fit UND's strengths. Denver U has a hodge-podge mix of sports, but DU excels in most of them. That in my view should be UND's goal.

[UND92,96]

First, we throw softball out of the equation right away, volleyball too. This move wasn't made for either of those programs. You should be proud of their success' but 95% of the supporters aren't attending either contests.

My biggest fear in this whole thing, and I'm sure its my age showing here, is that we now have a chance to win championships in 1 sport, football. The only reason for that is that the NCAA split football into 2 categories. If there was no FCS in DI football, neither of us would be talking about championships in that sport either. Now, maybe down the road, the big conferences will get tired of sharing the basketball revenue with the small conferences and the NCAA will divide basketball into 2 divisions like football; who knows.

I just remember the days when the we hosted regional tournaments at UND and played for national titles in all sports, not just hockey. Those were great times. We had lots of local athletes play in all sports at UND and NDSU, now those days are about gone, both our basketball teams at UND can attest to that right now.

Like I said, its probably me showing my age, but it used to be about championships and playing for titles. Now we dream about teams like NDSU had last year. Making the tournament, drawing Kansas and losing by 15. I guess the definition of success has changed.

As much as I love UND basketball, I think staying dII would have been a mistake. True, it would have allowed the women to continue to contend for national titles. But the men probably weren't going to win any titles at any level--be it dII, dIII or NAIA. And football was going to be harmed by staying dII due to the recruiting landscape having changed with all the additional scholarships by the xDSU's. If we couldn't get our share of the top local/regional kids, we simply weren't going to be good enough to consistently compete with Grand Valley or NW Missouri. And given a choice between football and basketball, I would choose to do what's best in the long run for football. I can respect that not everybody agrees with that, but I think the right choice was made, so long as the conference situation works itself out. Time will tell.

[coach daddy]

Well hell's bells if it is all about championships and titles we should have just moved to DIII or NAIA. Playing in one of the best sporting events in the world and giving Kansas all they want is success no matter what some people think.

I never said we should move down to win championships; we were competing for championships at the DII level. Believe me, I know there are flaws with DII athletics, too many small schools making the rules, I get it. My point is/was that it is still about the universities in the North and South Dakota needing each other. We had that and it worked,now we don't and, in my opinion, it isn't working.

By the way, I never thought I'd see an NDSU "happy" with losing by 15 to anyone. If Kansas beats your football team next fall by 15, will you be happy?

[FargoBison]

I never said we should move down to win championships; we were competing for championships at the DII level. Believe me, I know there are flaws with DII athletics, too many small schools making the rules, I get it. My point is/was that it is still about the universities in the North and South Dakota needing each other. We had that and it worked,now we don't and, in my opinion, it isn't working.

By the way, I never thought I'd see an NDSU "happy" with losing by 15 to anyone. If Kansas beats your football team next fall by 15, will you be happy?

NDSU lost to Kansas by 10 points and were within 6 points with 1:11 to go. Considering Kansas is one of the greatest basketball programs of all time, I will take that. To top it off, Kansas played well, their best players had great games.

If ND/SD flagship universities need each other, they will all likely be in the same conference(except for football) within the next few years.

In the mean time I am enjoying watching NDSU athletics at the highest level. NDSU men's basketball is a hundred times better in DI, we weren't doing much in DII but in DI we can pull top talent from MN, WI, and IA. If NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UND are all in the Summit women's basketball is going to be very good as well. Just think of how much fun the Summit tournament will be with our schools competing for a shot at the big dance. It will top any DII regional.

[Bison Dan]

I never said we should move down to win championships; we were competing for championships at the DII level. Believe me, I know there are flaws with DII athletics, too many small schools making the rules, I get it. My point is/was that it is still about the universities in the North and South Dakota needing each other. We had that and it worked,now we don't and, in my opinion, it isn't working.

By the way, I never thought I'd see an NDSU "happy" with losing by 15 to anyone. If Kansas beats your football team next fall by 15, will you be happy?

If Mayville beats yours next year will you be?

[star2city]

If Mayville beats yours next year will you be?

Says danny boy who passionately follows every step the Sioux make.

Love when you post, because the bad wishes you hope for us somehow end up going your direction instead.

[coach daddy]

If Mayville beats yours next year will you be?

I don't think we're playing Mayville in football next year. Have you beaten Northern Iowa yet in DI football? We did when we were still DII.

This was a great conversation til your dumb ass showed up.

[Bison Dan]

I don't think we're playing Mayville in football next year. Have you beaten Northern Iowa yet in DI football? We did when we were still DII.

This was a great conversation til your dumb ass showed up.

You're the one who asked the question. Was referring to bb and yes a 15 point lost to Kansas by anyone not in the top 10 or 15 in the country would be acceptable to most teams. I doubt that anyone on the Bison bb team last year would give up the chance to play Kansas in the dance as to playing in a DII final 8 - same with our VB team and SB team. As a fan I was in AZ and watched the Bison/Kansas game at a sports bar with about 50 other fans and I couldn't have been more proud unless they would have won. I don't know why you are talking about the move to DI now that ship has sailed.

[Bison Dan]

Says danny boy who passionately follows every step the Sioux make.

Love when you post, because the bad wishes you hope for us somehow end up going your direction instead.

Ditto

[coach daddy]

You're the one who asked the question. Was referring to bb and yes a 15 point lost to Kansas by anyone not in the top 10 or 15 in the country would be acceptable to most teams. I doubt that anyone on the Bison bb team last year would give up the chance to play Kansas in the dance as to playing in a DII final 8 - same with our VB team and SB team. As a fan I was in AZ and watched the Bison/Kansas game at a sports bar with about 50 other fans and I couldn't have been more proud unless they would have won. I don't know why you are talking about the move to DI now that ship has sailed.

Thanks for making my point. We now accept "good" losses. That's not who we used to be.

Yes I also realize the "ship" has sailed. That wasn't the point of the most recent conversation. If you read past posts before sticking your fat nose into the discussion you'd realize we had something else going on here.

By the way, have you beaten Northern Iowa yet?

[UND92,96]

Getting back to the original topic of this thread--there actually was another win on the schedule after all:

58 St. Olaf

69 UND

final

[GeauxSioux]

Sioux win a game!!!

UND 69

St. Olaf 58

Less than impressive according to Wayne's blog. Wouldn't an average Sioux team beat St. Olaf by 30? What do the SiouxSports.com folks who attended the game think?