UND vs Minnesota ?

[UNDHockeyUSA]

I have a question regarding both UND and Minnesota hockey programs. There's no denying when it comes to developing good hockey players Minnesota ranks up there with the best of them. I have a buddy that lives in Minnesota and we go back and forth all the time on which program is better and why.

My argument is we have more championships at UND, and his argument is we have to import players to compete and win championships. He said he'd rather have a good team with all Minnesota kids versus bringing in kids from all over North America.

Then I asked him if Minnesota fans are so devoted why can't they sell out Xcel at tourney time to support the Gophers? When it comes to numbers Minnesota has more people.

This is his response please let know what you think..............................

He said that there's too many things to do in Minnesota with Wild, Timberwolves, Vikings, five DI hockey schools, skiing, ice fishing, ect......... Too many choices and people can only afford so much. Then he goes as far as saying Grand Forks is just like Green Bay in the fact there's nothing else to do in Grand Forks in the winter.

Is this a valid response?

[FIRE HELMET GUY #26]

I like the fact that Minnesota has always tried to bring in Minnesota kids but even Lucia realizes now that you have to look outstate/out of the country to be able to compete in this league/college hockey. I'm still baffled that we get hardly any canadian recruits, I think UND has Canada pretty well covered for recruiting.

As far as not being able to fill the Xcel at tourney time, I assume you mean the Final Five? I honestly think Gopher fans do a pretty good job filling up Xcel during the Final Five, but if they don't win the semi game or play-in game you see the fair weather fans pretty quick. The real frustrating thing is seeing all the empty seats at Mariucci for games, so many corporate seats left unfilled. The corporate argument comes up on GPL all the time that if it was not for the corporate seats ticket prices would go up even more, but I know that the waiting list for season tix is well over 2,000 people right now, and the list hardly goes down every year....unless fans are willing to dish out MORE money to the "Williams Fund" to get seating right away.

As far as other sports in the state being a reason the arena doesn't get filled, I think its somewhat of a factor, especially if the Wild come into play.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

I hear this a lot too. The population of the metro area is 3.5 million. They should have no problem selling out each and every gopher game, regardless of the supposed plethora of things to do in the area.

The "big city" vs. "small city" argument used to piss me off to no end. It doesn't bother me anymore, different people enjoy different things.

That said, I enjoy 1-2 vikings games a year, and a few Twins games. I attend the same amount of pro games that my friends who live in the cities metro area do. Yeah, I have to drive 5 hours to see em, but my day to day life, in MY OPINION, is so much better here. Things are cheaper, there is a 5-10 minute commute to work, people seem nicer, and I have a real sense of pride in my community. Grand Forks has its own identity. People who live in the suburbs such as Savage, Andover, Blaine, have their own cities technically, their own governments, but they are seen by everyone else simply as "the cities", a neverending network of urban sprawl. I enjoy my stand-alone city here in the "middle of nowhere". The outdoor activities I enjoy don't hurt either!

Again, to each their own.

[krangodance]

I have a question regarding both UND and Minnesota hockey programs. There's no denying when it comes to developing good hockey players Minnesota ranks up there with the best of them. I have a buddy that lives in Minnesota and we go back and forth all the time on which program is better and why.

My argument is we have more championships at UND, and his argument is we have to import players to compete and win championships. He said he'd rather have a good team with all Minnesota kids versus bringing in kids from all over North America.

Then I asked him if Minnesota fans are so devoted why can't they sell out Xcel at tourney time to support the Gophers? When it comes to numbers Minnesota has more people.

This is his response please let know what you think..............................

He said that there's too many things to do in Minnesota with Wild, Timberwolves, Vikings, five DI hockey schools, skiing, ice fishing, ect......... Too many choices and people can only afford so much. Then he goes as far as saying Grand Forks is just like Green Bay in the fact there's nothing else to do in Grand Forks in the winter.

Is this a valid response?

that importing thing is a bunch of malarkey. this is college, not high school. the whole idea of putting together a strong program in any sport is to properly recuit; from anywhere you can find the talent. what if football had that mindset? nobody would ever beat the texas universities (that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea).

i didn't hear gopher fans complaining too much when vanek was their top player and he's not even from north america.

as for not filling the xcel at tourney time. is that true? i feel like it's pretty packed whenever i go to final five games.

let's assume you are correct and mn can't fill the arena, the fact that the guy you're talking to tried to make a reason for that makes it clear that you're talking to a guy who's going to make a reason for anything.

i know i do the vikings analogy a lot, but when they don't sell out the dome for a game and my packer fan friends talk trash about it, all i can say is "yep, it's lame". i accept the fact that my team's fans are not living up to the expectations of a fanbase when the dome doesn't sell out, i don't make excuses.

as for there being nothing else going on in grand forks, well i have to agree with your friend (except the fact that he included hunting and fishing in his list of things to do in mn because you can do those in nd or go to mn to do those things if you live in gf). who cares though, sioux hockey is awesome, that's what you'd want to be doing on game day anyways.

[The Whistler]

There's no doubt that Minny has a top hockey program. It deserves more respect in the market because quite frankly they're the only ones with any championships since 1991. (And I love watching the Twins so don't think I'm dissing them).

But their concern about recruiting in Minnesota only is a bunch of BS. In fact they should do much better recruiting Minnesota kids than they do.

Winnipeg is closer to Grand Forks than Roseau is from Minneapolis. They should quit being dumb.

[BigGreyAnt41]

Is it really a matter of choosing not to recruit outside of Minnesota or, for the most part, not having to? There are so many strong hockey programs throughout the state they don't necessarily have to leave the state for recruiting purposes if they don't want to. There are a few exceptions, though. Vanek, as already stated, and the Potulny brothers.

The fact is, all teams recruit from all over. It's not like UND is the only school to ever recruit outside their home state. Everybody wants the best players that are the best fit on their team. To use "out-of-state recruiting" as an argument about why UM is superior to UND is just grasping at straws.

[SiouxTupa]

Plus, if you're going to only recruit in your own state, then it should be vital that you get all the top-end talent, right? Many elite players from MN choose not to become Gophers. When that happens, why shouldn't UM recruit the best players they can find no matter where they're from?

There's something special about seeing home-grown talent live out their dreams, but you need a good mix.

[krangodance]

Plus, if you're going to only recruit in your own state, then it should be vital that you get all the top-end talent, right? Many elite players from MN choose not to become Gophers. When that happens, why shouldn't UM recruit the best players they can find no matter where they're from?

There's something special about seeing home-grown talent live out their dreams, but you need a good mix.

the whole recruiting from your home state plan is very appealing to teams in states that have strong youth programs in the sport in question. obviously mn has a very strong youth hockey program; all the way from pee-wee through high school.

i don't think north dakota's 400,000 population and sinking would ever give us a chance if we had to abide by some in-state recruiting rule. in fact, most d1 college hockey programs wouldn't survive under those conditions.

i'm sure even gopher fans would agree that having only 20 or so teams in d1 college hockey would be a real bummer. that's would happen though if some in-state recruiting standard was adopted by all teams.

[82SiouxGuy]

the whole recruiting from your home state plan is very appealing to teams in states that have strong youth programs in the sport in question. obviously mn has a very strong youth hockey program; all the way from pee-wee through high school.

i don't think north dakota's 400,000 population and sinking would ever give us a chance if we had to abide by some in-state recruiting rule. in fact, most d1 college hockey programs wouldn't survive under those conditions.

i'm sure even gopher fans would agree that having only 20 or so teams in d1 college hockey would be a real bummer. that's would happen though if some in-state recruiting standard was adopted by all teams.

It's 635,000+ and actually growing (although not very quickly).

[Goon]

It's 635,000+ and actually growing (although not very quickly).

I am really happy with it not growing too fast.

[82SiouxGuy]

I am really happy with it not growing too fast.

Growing is better than shrinking. Growing slowly is much better than growing too fast.

[Sioux-per Villain]

Unfortunately what isn't growing fast is the potential for D1 talent developing in the state of ND. Very few D1 players come out of this state, especially in the Fargo area.

[Sioux-per-man]

Unfortunately what isn't growing fast is the potential for D1 talent developing in the state of ND. Very few D1 players come out of this state, especially in the Fargo area.

Easy now. Fargo / Moorhead is as close as Grand Forks / East Grand Forks. Alot of top end talent from Moorhead has played for the Sioux and are still playing in the NHL. That being the way it is, I don't blame the best players wanting to play for Moorhead. They have had better coaches, better training system, and an all around better tradition on that side of the river.

The top players want to play for the top programs, reguardless if it is high school or college. If you want to get to the "next step", you have to play for a program who helps get you there.

[Sioux-per Villain]

Easy now. Fargo / Moorhead is as close as Grand Forks / East Grand Forks. Alot of top end talent from Moorhead has played for the Sioux and are still playing in the NHL. That being the way it is, I don't blame the best players wanting to play for Moorhead. They have had better coaches, better training system, and an all around better tradition on that side of the river.

The top players want to play for the top programs, reguardless if it is high school or college. If you want to get to the "next step", you have to play for a program who helps get you there.

I said Fargo area, not Moorhead. Please name D1 talent that has played for Moorhead recently that moved there from Fargo.

Plus you are making my point. Moorhead is head and shoulders above Fargo for tradition, coaching, etc. Just wishing that could change but I doubt it.

[Sioux_Hab-it]

All those years of Minnesota's best but to get the real talent they needed to make a championship run the Goofs had to dip into North Dakota to find their leadership and Austria for someone who could score in the big games.

[southtexgopher]

Growing is better than shrinking. Growing slowly is much better than growing too fast.

Are you guys seeing any influx of talent moving into North Dakota?

I ask, since the economy up there is outpacing the rest of the country...the natural assumption would be that folks from other hockey hotbeds are moving there in search of jobs (and taking their hockey playing kids with them).

[Goon]

Growing is better than shrinking. Growing slowly is much better than growing too fast.

Growing quickly means I will have more competition for tee times and hunting spots.

[avsfan]

Are you guys seeing any influx of talent moving into North Dakota?

I ask, since the economy up there is outpacing the rest of the country...the natural assumption would be that folks from other hockey hotbeds are moving there in search of jobs (and taking their hockey playing kids with them).

Not so much talent, just alot of families moving back home from the cities because they lost a job or house. I think it ironic since most of them are the same people asking me why I would want to stay in what they call a hell hole city. I say simple, good job, great neighbors, stable economy, very little crime, and SIOUX HOCKEY!!!!

[happy]

I don't see your point here. Minnesota has the highest ticket prices in college hockey, and every home game is sold out. The season ticket waiting list is untold thousands, and it takes multiple decades to buy a season ticket. and still, almost 18000 watched them play on a Thursday in St. Paul. UND only had a 97% over last weekend. it seems both have the full support of their fans.

[Slap Shot]

I have a question regarding both UND and Minnesota hockey programs. There's no denying when it comes to developing good hockey players Minnesota ranks up there with the best of them. I have a buddy that lives in Minnesota and we go back and forth all the time on which program is better and why.

My argument is we have more championships at UND, and his argument is we have to import players to compete and win championships. He said he'd rather have a good team with all Minnesota kids versus bringing in kids from all over North America.

UND has an awesome program no matter where the recruits come from and you can tell them a Gophers fan said that. As far as which program is better I don't think that argument will ever end. You guys like yours, we like ours.

Is this a valid response?

In some respects, yes I think it is. There are very few metro areas in the country with a pro franchise in MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL and also a Div I college, and possibly none with as few people as the TC area.

[dagies]

As far as which program is better I don't think that argument will ever end. You guys like yours, we like ours.

Therefore, we win.

[squirtcoach]

As far as which program is better I don't think that argument will ever end. You guys like yours, we like ours.

As a hockey dad who got to follow my squirt thru Peewee A, a Bantam A State Championship and high school varsity, here in Minnesota, I really think the "homegrown flavor" of the Gopher team is a pretty cool thing. However (y'all knew it was coming), I watched this group of Gopher hockey players since they were Peewees as we played almost all of them, and several times a year. And the crew they have are ones that left their respective High School teams just when they were most needed as Juniors and Seniors for selfish reasons. And I think you notice it on the ice. It seems that the Gophers never really have a team mentality. It is like an earlier poster said it is a capital M with a small e on their jerseys. They only kids I was hoping would go to UND was Miller and Budish. The rest, they fit the Gopher mold. And if those are the kinds of kid you want on your team, well that is the difference between UND and U of M fans. And to that I say "Vive la Difference!

Go Sioux!

[Slap Shot]

It seems that the Gophers never really have a team mentality. It is like an earlier poster said it is a capital M with a small e on their jerseys. They only kids I was hoping would go to UND was Miller and Budish. The rest, they fit the Gopher mold. And if those are the kinds of kid you want on your team, well that is the difference between UND and U of M fans. And to that I say "Vive la Difference!

Go Sioux!

Here's your halo.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I have a question regarding both UND and Minnesota hockey programs. There's no denying when it comes to developing good hockey players Minnesota ranks up there with the best of them. I have a buddy that lives in Minnesota and we go back and forth all the time on which program is better and why.

My argument is we have more championships at UND, and his argument is we have to import players to compete and win championships. He said he'd rather have a good team with all Minnesota kids versus bringing in kids from all over North America.

Then I asked him if Minnesota fans are so devoted why can't they sell out Xcel at tourney time to support the Gophers? When it comes to numbers Minnesota has more people.

This is his response please let know what you think..............................

He said that there's too many things to do in Minnesota with Wild, Timberwolves, Vikings, five DI hockey schools, skiing, ice fishing, ect......... Too many choices and people can only afford so much. Then he goes as far as saying Grand Forks is just like Green Bay in the fact there's nothing else to do in Grand Forks in the winter.

Is this a valid response?

Why do you play college hockey? To win national championships. 7>5

[Sioux_Hab-it]

Here's your halo.

If you want to come here and talk smack how many Minnesota points on the score sheet from last night. I see one assist on one side of the ledger and plenty of dumb penalties on the other side. Have a great day.