BTHC - Alvarez and OSU want to make it happen?

[gopherz]

Strange that UW is so short sighted. Did they learn nothing from MTU when they left for the CCHA in 81 and returned in 84?

UW and UM are not at all comparable to MTU.

[Goon]

UW and UM are not at all comparable to MTU.

That is the elitist attitude that some allude to by Gopher fans. The fact that Clem Haskins had students that didn't even do their own work put a serious black cloud over your university. In fact it cheapened the University's academic reputation. I would be willing to bet that some of their engineering students at MTU would disagree with you. MTU is a well respected engineering school.

[Siouxtimestwo]

While this isn't the best example, you saying that sports programs have little to no effect on the university academically is foolish. For example, when Davidson was making their magical run deep into the NCAAs, they saw a huge increase in applications, which leads to higher enrollment if that's a school goal, higher quality of student due to a larger application pool to pick from, and more revenue for the school in general.

I see your point, but you're right, it isn't the best example. NCAA hockey isn't anywhere comparable to March Madness, one of the most popular sporting events in the entire country. Davidson was seen across the country by nearly every single person who follows sports. We're not talking about the Sioux playing a regular season hockey game vs. the Gophers or Badgers in front of millions of fans that otherwise had never heard of the school, like your Davidson example. Most people in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan already know all about UND, and the ones who don't aren't going to be swayed academically by a hockey game, since they obviously don't watch hockey.

Also, gopherz, since you brought up Davidson, without googling it, can you tell me any major conference teams they played in the regular season that year? It didn't matter who they played in the regular season, once post-season play started, as long as they kept winning, they had a shot at the title, just like UND would. That's the point, I'm trying to make. Some people on here make it seem like if the Sioux stopped playing the Gophers and Badgers in the regular season, but kept competing for national titles, fans would stop showing up for games and students would quit applying to the university. That's insane and moronic. We have a rivalry with the Gophers, not an obsession, or at least we shouldn't.

[sprig]

While this isn't the best example, you saying that sports programs have little to no effect on the university academically is foolish. For example, when Davidson was making their magical run deep into the NCAAs, they saw a huge increase in applications, which leads to higher enrollment if that's a school goal, higher quality of student due to a larger application pool to pick from, and more revenue for the school in general.

On that basis, because of the ineptness of gopher football, the student body has been dumbed down significantly of late. Guess you could add the last two years of gopher hockey also.

[82SiouxGuy]

I see your point, but you're right, it isn't the best example. NCAA hockey isn't anywhere comparable to March Madness, one of the most popular sporting events in the entire country. Davidson was seen across the country by nearly every single person who follows sports. We're not talking about the Sioux playing a regular season hockey game vs. the Gophers or Badgers in front of millions of fans that otherwise had never heard of the school, like your Davidson example. Most people in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan already know all about UND, and the ones who don't aren't going to be swayed academically by a hockey game, since they obviously don't watch hockey.

Also, gopherz, since you brought up Davidson, without googling it, can you tell me any major conference teams they played in the regular season that year? It didn't matter who they played in the regular season, once post-season play started, as long as they kept winning, they had a shot at the title, just like UND would. That's the point, I'm trying to make. Some people on here make it seem like if the Sioux stopped playing the Gophers and Badgers in the regular season, but kept competing for national titles, fans would stop showing up for games and students would quit applying to the university. That's insane and moronic. We have a rivalry with the Gophers, not an obsession, or at least we shouldn't.

The world wouldn't stop if UND no longer played Minnesota or Wisconsin. But playing them on a regular basis does get attention in places like Minneapolis. It helps keep UND in the minds of students and players from the Twin Cities and some areas of Wisconsin. You may notice that a fair number of UND students and players hail from places like Minneapolis. And the scores from games with large schools are more likely to be reported on ESPN (although it is college hockey and it won't get much attention from national outlets). So being in the same league with those schools and playing them on a regular basis is more advantageous to UND than the alternative. Losing those schools to a BTHC, and losing regular games with those schools, would definitely hurt UND and the hockey program. The question is how much it would hurt.

[Siouxtimestwo]

The world wouldn't stop if UND no longer played Minnesota or Wisconsin. But playing them on a regular basis does get attention in places like Minneapolis. It helps keep UND in the minds of students and players from the Twin Cities and some areas of Wisconsin. You may notice that a fair number of UND students and players hail from places like Minneapolis. And the scores from games with large schools are more likely to be reported on ESPN (although it is college hockey and it won't get much attention from national outlets). So being in the same league with those schools and playing them on a regular basis is more advantageous to UND than the alternative. Losing those schools to a BTHC, and losing regular games with those schools, would definitely hurt UND and the hockey program. The question is how much it would hurt.

Maybe, maybe not. Regarding ESPN, the only games they televise on their main networks, ESPN and ESPN2, are the Frozen Four. UND still has the opportunity to play in those games and get the exposure. The Sioux-Merrimack game was just televised nationally on a secondary sports network, so it doesn't take the Gophers to get us on national TV. If anything, losing games with Wisconsin and Minnesota would open up the door for us to play games with more teams out east. If you're going to make the argument that the university needs more exposure, more games against BC and BU would have a lot better chance of being televised by ESPN and familiarize a lot more people with UND than games against UM and UW.

Again, I keep going back to this, but potential college hockey players in Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Timbuktu are going to still come to UND as long as we compete for national titles. College hockey fans in Wisconsin and Minnesota aren't going to magically forget that UND or the state of North Dakota exists just because we don't play them anymore. Most people on this board can name just about every hockey program in the country and we don't play all of them regularly! The average sports fan, but non-college hockey fan, doesn't take notice until the hockey team makes a run in the tourney, if at all. If fans around the country stop noticing UND because we're not making the tournament consistently anymore, then those problems will have nothing to do with not playing Minnesota and Wisconsin. It will have to do with what is happening in Grand Forks, ND, not Minneapolis or Madison.

UND is a well-respected academic institution in the Midwest. The hockey isn't the only reason people in the surrounding states know about UND. Let's face it, most of the people from around the country and world come to UND for it's world-renowned aerospace department. Those people could care less about the hockey, football, basketball, or ping pong teams. They might become fans when they get here, due to the great atmosphere, but that's not what draws people to our campus.

Our hockey team is what it is as a result of its own successes and failures. Our school is what it is as a result of its own successes and failures. UND is a national power in hockey. UND is not a nationally acclaimed university, save aeronautics. It almost certainly never will be. If by some slim chance it does become a Michigan, UCLA, Ohio State, etc. academically, you can bet it won't be because the hockey team played the Gophers.

[82SiouxGuy]

Maybe, maybe not. Regarding ESPN, the only games they televise on their main networks, ESPN and ESPN2, are the Frozen Four. UND still has the opportunity to play in those games and get the exposure. The Sioux-Merrimack game was just televised nationally on a secondary sports network, so it doesn't take the Gophers to get us on national TV. If anything, losing games with Wisconsin and Minnesota would open up the door for us to play games with more teams out east. If you're going to make the argument that the university needs more exposure, more games against BC and BU would have a lot better chance of being televised by ESPN and familiarize a lot more people with UND than games against UM and UW.

Again, I keep going back to this, but potential college hockey players in Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Timbuktu are going to still come to UND as long as we compete for national titles. College hockey fans in Wisconsin and Minnesota aren't going to magically forget that UND or the state of North Dakota exists just because we don't play them anymore. Most people on this board can name just about every hockey program in the country and we don't play all of them regularly! The average sports fan, but non-college hockey fan, doesn't take notice until the hockey team makes a run in the tourney, if at all. If fans around the country stop noticing UND because we're not making the tournament consistently anymore, then those problems will have nothing to do with not playing Minnesota and Wisconsin. It will have to do with what is happening in Grand Forks, ND, not Minneapolis or Madison.

UND is a well-respected academic institution in the Midwest. The hockey isn't the only reason people in the surrounding states know about UND. Let's face it, most of the people from around the country and world come to UND for it's world-renowned aerospace department. Those people could care less about the hockey, football, basketball, or ping pong teams. They might become fans when they get here, due to the great atmosphere, but that's not what draws people to our campus.

Our hockey team is what it is as a result of its own successes and failures. Our school is what it is as a result of its own successes and failures. UND is a national power in hockey. UND is not a nationally acclaimed university, save aeronautics. It almost certainly never will be. If by some slim chance it does become a Michigan, UCLA, Ohio State, etc. academically, you can bet it won't be because the hockey team played the Gophers.

I don't think you read anything I wrote. First, I didn't say anything about watching games on ESPN. I said scores. ESPN has listed regular college hockey scores or used highlights from regular games from time to time. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. They are more likely to post scores from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame than they are UND, UMD, SCSU, etc. Just a fact of life, they notice the big name schools.

The rest of my post dealt with exposure in the Twin Cities area and parts of Wisconsin because of UND playing the major schools in those areas. I concentrated on that because that is a huge drawing area for UND, and an area that would obviously be affected by a change in conference. The Star Tribune, Pioneer Press, KFAN, WCCO and all other media outlets in the Twin Cities area, along with the media outlets in Madison, actually give coverage to games between UND and either Minnesota or Wisconsin. That is "free" public relations for UND. University of North Dakota in a headline from a major metropolitan newspaper is a big deal, and happens every year because UND plays Minnesota in hockey. Those media outlets are going to give much less coverage to a conference that does not involve Minnesota or Wisconsin. For instance, look for the coverage of the Northern Sun. That is the way those media outlets would treat a WCHA without Minnesota and Wisconsin. Less coverage (or no coverage) by media outlets means less awareness by residents, students and prospective hockey players in those areas.

UND has a lot of great things going for it and is a great school. But losing that "free" exposure would definitely hurt. We just don't know how much it would hurt.

[Stromer]

I agree and said before BU and BC ahve survived with or without the WCHA and or Minnesota and Wisconsin so I think UND would be fine without them.

Care to elaborate on this? How does BU or BC even come into this discussion? They are major eastern powers. Of course they can survive without the WCHA. Nobody ever said college hokcey ran through Minn and Wisc. Western college hockey? Maybe. College hockey in general? No.

[Siouxtimestwo]

I don't think you read anything I wrote. First, I didn't say anything about watching games on ESPN. I said scores. ESPN has listed regular college hockey scores or used highlights from regular games from time to time. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. They are more likely to post scores from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame than they are UND, UMD, SCSU, etc. Just a fact of life, they notice the big name schools.

The only games that get their own highlight segments are Frozen 4 games. We continue to play Sioux hockey, we'll still make SportsCenter. I very well could be wrong, but I've never once seen a Sioux-Gophers regular season game get it's own highlights and analysis on SportsCenter. The only regular season game I can recall making SportsCenter was the Michigan-MSU game played outdoors. They use segments of regular games for top plays, but they take any top play from all over the county at all levels. They use high school sports for these segments, as well. If someone from UND makes a play worthy of being featured on SportsCenter, it will still make it. And how often does this happen? Once every 2 years, maybe? You think our fanbase is going to take a hit because we might not get an 8 second clip on SportsCenter once every 2 years? If that's the case, maybe our fans aren't as loyal as we make them out to be.

Regarding ESPN.com, I agree they're more likely to post articles about the bigger schools. Scores, I'm not so sure. If they post scores for a sport, they typically post scores for all games in that division, not just a select few. They post all NDSU scores now that they're a full fledged division 1 team, not just the games against larger schools. (I don't check for UND scores, since I already know who won). Anyways, people don't just stumble unto the college hockey segment of ESPN's website. If they're looking up scores for college hockey games, they already know all about UND's college hockey team!

The rest of my post dealt with exposure in the Twin Cities area and parts of Wisconsin because of UND playing the major schools in those areas. I concentrated on that because that is a huge drawing area for UND, and an area that would obviously be affected by a change in conference. The Star Tribune, Pioneer Press, KFAN, WCCO and all other media outlets in the Twin Cities area, along with the media outlets in Madison, actually give coverage to games between UND and either Minnesota or Wisconsin. That is "free" public relations for UND. University of North Dakota in a headline from a major metropolitan newspaper is a big deal, and happens every year because UND plays Minnesota in hockey. Those media outlets are going to give much less coverage to a conference that does not involve Minnesota or Wisconsin. For instance, look for the coverage of the Northern Sun. That is the way those media outlets would treat a WCHA without Minnesota and Wisconsin. Less coverage (or no coverage) by media outlets means less awareness by residents, students and prospective hockey players in those areas.

I agree that the Sioux would get less coverage by the local media in Minneapolis, Madison, or Milwaukee. It is free public relations, but IMHO, you vastly overrate the impact it has on converting Minnesotans and Cheeseheads into Sioux fans or drawing students to our university. When you read a paper or browse a media website, do you read every single article they post? Neither do I. People who don't care about hockey aren't reading the current articles about the Sioux on the StarTrib right now, so what is UND losing there? Most people living in these states already know about the University of North Dakota. Those who don't aren't going to be swayed just because we're playing UM in hockey. Seeing a headline about a college hockey game isn't going to make someone who doesn't care about college hockey choose UND for med school, for crying out loud! People don't choose universities based on a headline in a newspaper or a box score on TV.

Hockey fans in Minnesota that do follow the local media's coverage already know about the Sioux. The guys from MIB aren't going to come and zap their brains. I'm assuming you've read hundreds of articles put out by the Minneapolis media. Do you think any casual fans are going to read them and decide to become Sioux fans? Do you think listening to Frank and Doug or PA and Dubay will make the little boys in Minnesota want to play for the Sioux? You know what makes people want to play for the Sioux? Grand Forks, ND, the coaches, the program's history, the success of the program, family ties, and the ability to put top flight players into the NHL.

I will concede the fact that the Sioux would get absolutely no media coverage in Minneapolis and Wisconsin if UM and UW left the WCHA, if you're willing to concede the fact that prospective college hockey players in those areas will still know all about UND's hockey program. I'll also concede that UND would lose out on free PR by not being in the Minneapolis or Wisconsin media as much, if you're willing to concede that the effects of this on the general population are extremely minor at best.

[82SiouxGuy]

The only games that get their own highlight segments are Frozen 4 games. We continue to play Sioux hockey, we'll still make SportsCenter. I very well could be wrong, but I've never once seen a Sioux-Gophers regular season game get it's own highlights and analysis on SportsCenter. The only regular season game I can recall making SportsCenter was the Michigan-MSU game played outdoors. They use segments of regular games for top plays, but they take any top play from all over the county at all levels. They use high school sports for these segments, as well. If someone from UND makes a play worthy of being featured on SportsCenter, it will still make it. And how often does this happen? Once every 2 years, maybe? You think our fanbase is going to take a hit because we might not get an 8 second clip on SportsCenter once every 2 years? If that's the case, maybe our fans aren't as loyal as we make them out to be.

Regarding ESPN.com, I agree they're more likely to post articles about the bigger schools. Scores, I'm not so sure. If they post scores for a sport, they typically post scores for all games in that division, not just a select few. They post all NDSU scores now that they're a full fledged division 1 team, not just the games against larger schools. (I don't check for UND scores, since I already know who won). Anyways, people don't just stumble unto the college hockey segment of ESPN's website. If they're looking up scores for college hockey games, they already know all about UND's college hockey team!

I agree that the Sioux would get less coverage by the local media in Minneapolis, Madison, or Milwaukee. It is free public relations, but IMHO, you vastly overrate the impact it has on converting Minnesotans and Cheeseheads into Sioux fans or drawing students to our university. When you read a paper or browse a media website, do you read every single article they post? Neither do I. People who don't care about hockey aren't reading the current articles about the Sioux on the StarTrib right now, so what is UND losing there? Most people living in these states already know about the University of North Dakota. Those who don't aren't going to be swayed just because we're playing UM in hockey. Seeing a headline about a college hockey game isn't going to make someone who doesn't care about college hockey choose UND for med school, for crying out loud! People don't choose universities based on a headline in a newspaper or a box score on TV.

Hockey fans in Minnesota that do follow the local media's coverage already know about the Sioux. The guys from MIB aren't going to come and zap their brains. I'm assuming you've read hundreds of articles put out by the Minneapolis media. Do you think any casual fans are going to read them and decide to become Sioux fans? Do you think listening to Frank and Doug or PA and Dubay will make the little boys in Minnesota want to play for the Sioux? You know what makes people want to play for the Sioux? Grand Forks, ND, the coaches, the program's history, the success of the program, family ties, and the ability to put top flight players into the NHL.

I will concede the fact that the Sioux would get absolutely no media coverage in Minneapolis and Wisconsin if UM and UW left the WCHA, if you're willing to concede the fact that prospective college hockey players in those areas will still know all about UND's hockey program. I'll also concede that UND would lose out on free PR by not being in the Minneapolis or Wisconsin media as much, if you're willing to concede that the effects of this on the general population are extremely minor at best.

You are reading things that I never said. I never mentioned ESPN.com. And I never mentioned an individual game highlight segment. When I was talking scores I was talking about reading scores on Sportscenter or a crawl of scores on any of the ESPN networks. They don't always give all scores for a division. For football they sometimes only do Top 25 or major conferences. They don't usually run college hockey scores, but I have seen them list scores for a limited number of games. A Big Ten Hockey Conference would take all of this coverage. And I never said that this was a major deciding factor for anyone. But it would be a loss of publicity. All losses would add up to become important.

The same holds true with regional media in the Twin Cities and Wisconsin areas. I'm not talking about anyone becoming a Sioux fan because of reading a story or series of stories in the Star Tribune. I never even suggested that. I'm talking about awareness. Having UND in regional media keeps people aware of its existence. Do you think the average high school student in Anoka or Eden Prairie would even consider going to UND if they never heard the name mentioned. If they wanted to be a pilot, sure. But if they want to be a teacher or a nurse, probably not so much. But if they are watching TV and hear the name, or reading a newspaper web site (because they would never read the actual newspaper) or listen to the radio and hear UND, then they might pay attention. That might get them to look a little further and find a great school that they wouldn't have known about. That is the kind of free press that would hurt if lost. And it would get worse as time went on. Schools closer to Minneapolis and part of the University of Minnesota or Minnesota State University systems would probably be the winners.

As far as hockey players, I barely mentioned them. But yeah, it would hurt recruiting. There have been several players from the Twin Cities that were interested in UND because they didn't like the home team and wanted a chance to play against them, or UMTC didn't recruit them so they wanted a chance to play against them, or one of the reasons they looked at UND was the chance to play in front of friends and family in the Twin Cities. UND might still get some of them, but it would also lose players if that wasn't an option. Would that severely damage the UND hockey program, probably not. But it would make a difference for some people.

You keep talking about whether any of these issues would make a huge difference to people becoming UND fans or players. No single incident is going to make a big difference. And it won't affect hardcore hockey fans, I never said it would. Every one of these items is very minor when looked at alone. But they could add up to be a major problem. Marketing guidelines say that you need a minimum of 7 exposures to make an impact. That means people need to be exposed to the UND name at least 7 times in a period of time to have it remain in their mind. Taking UND sports out of the media in the Twin Cities area would hurt student recruiting, and possibly player recruiting. As I have said repeated times, the only question is the extent of the damage. Would it cost UND 10 students and 1 player in a given year? Or would it cost 100 students? We don't know that right now.

[mksioux]

Agree that UND hockey doesn't necessarily need anyone else to continue it's success. But who UND aligns itself with athletically does in the longer term define UND's academic aspirations (and vice versa).

Conferences generally only invite academically similar institutions: hockey is the main anamoly to this general rule. Conference affiliations help define an institution: moving from CUSA to the Big East raised Cincinnati and South Florida both athletically and the perception of both academically. Even in DIII, there are strict athletic conference lines that divide acadmically-gifted institutions from those more challenged. If UND was not associated with Minnesota in hockey, longer-term, it would hurt. No offense to UMD, SCSU, MSUM, BSU etc, but if UND was only associated with them, that would be harmful to UND's hockey reputation (and longer-term academically).

This.

While obviously not the only factor, who a school associates itself with athletically is a factor in defining it as an institution.

[Siouxtimestwo]

I guess only time will tell. I'm not too worried about health of UND athletics or academics. If the rest of you want to play Chicken Little about it, have at it. I'll be enjoying the games this weekend, just as I'll be enjoying UND hockey for all the remaining years of my life.

[Vegas_Sioux]

Would the thought of winning a big ten championship be a reason for the Goph to jump because their football team obviously will never win one?

[Goon]

Care to elaborate on this? How does BU or BC even come into this discussion? They are major eastern powers. Of course they can survive without the WCHA. Nobody ever said college hokcey ran through Minn and Wisc. Western college hockey? Maybe. College hockey in general? No.

That was my point that UND would survive as well.

[The Sicatoka]

Too long for a single post, so ...

http://boardsroom.blogspot.com/2009/10/str...ten-hockey.html

[Goon]

Too long for a single post, so ...

http://boardsroom.blogspot.com/2009/10/str...ten-hockey.html

I am all for FBS if we can get rid of the Alerus.

[GeauxSioux]

Count me in.

[gopherz]

I am all for FBS if we can get rid of the Alerus.

That has to be a joke. That guy wasn't serious right? UND IN THE FBS?!?! ;)

If I wasn't deathly sick, I could go on for hours of why that isn't at all feasible.

Let's throw a few things out there...

1. Money - UND has no chance of financially supporting an FBS football team, especially if they want to be at all successful.

2. Hockey - You can't have the best of both worlds. If you want your football team to make the necessary spending to jump to FBS, your other sports are going to suffer. That's just the nature of the beast.

3. Alerus - Is a joke. You can't just easily add 2,000 seats to a tiny stadium to meet the requirements. So basically, the renovations, or the need for a totally new stadium would be much more expensive than UND could afford.

4. NDSU - If NDSU can't make the jump to FBS, what makes you think UND can? Unlike UND, NDSU doesn't have a huge hockey program to support. Their main focus is football, and they still cant do it. It sucks, but North Dakota does not have the population or dedicated fan base to support FBS football.

5. Fan support - You think a move to FBS is going to change this? Usually a team transitioning from D2 to 1AA garners a huge increase in fan support, look at NDSU for an example of that. This past weekend, though I only saw it on TV, there seemed to be not even half the seats sold.

6. Team - The quality of the team has a long long way to go before making the jump. Just lost to a NAIA team...NAIA!?!? Most FBS teams see it as a huge embarrassment losing to a top FCS team (see: Bison beating the Gophers, Michigan losing to App State).

7. Big Ten - REALLY!??! UND wouldn't even come near the academic and research levels required for schools to be in the Big 10. I don't remember the stat, but I believe all the Big 10 schools are in the top 40 or 50 in research, and many are in the top 10.

8. Other schools - You really think UND would get the approval of schools like PSU/Illinois/etc? I can't see any of those teams too thrilled about having to come to North Dakota.

That being said, I could go on for hours and hours, but I'd like to hear what some people have to say about it first.

In regards to the BTHC, I think it's going to happen. I can't see why else UNO and Bemidji were added. I can totally see why Wisconsin is justifiably royally pissed off. There is nothing in it for them, the WCHA has become a joke for them. In my opinion the only reason Minnesota is still here is to keep the great rivalry with teams like UND, and to make sure programs like SCSU/UMD/Mankato and other small Minnesota schools can stay alive. Losing Minnesota and Wisconsin would mean death for a lot of the smaller programs over time.

I would love the idea of playing UND yearly still, because I love the rivalry and it doesn't get any better than that. That being said, I still think it's selfish, but better in the long-run for Minnesota and Wisconsin to try to look into a BTHC that would include Notre Dame. One huge reason I'd like the Big Ten to do this, is to lure Notre Dame in for other sports. That'd be huge to get them in for Football and Basketball. Not only would it bring up ratings and conference exposure incredibly since Notre Dame has such a large and widely spread alumni base, but the extra money created for the conference would be incredible.

I'd say give it a few years and this thing will be a done deal. Being a huge Minnesota fan in nearly every sport, I'd love nothing more than to be able to play MSU/Michigan/tOSU every year a few times, instead of just playing Michigan/MSU once and Wisconsin twice. I don't want to lose the UND rivalry, but I don't think that'd be part of it. The blow to the other schools in the WCHA would be huge, as they'd lose a ton of national exposure due to it's 2 biggest media teams leaving...oh well, look forward to hearing some other's comments.

[Goon]

3. Alerus - Is a joke. You can't just easily add 2,000 seats to a tiny stadium to meet the requirements. So basically, the renovations, or the need for a totally new stadium would be much more expensive than UND could afford.

I agree the Alerus is a joke and over grown grain bin and I think Dynamite and bulldozers would be a better solution. That being said I don't see the BTHC ever happening. I think we are wasting a lot of time talking about something that will probably never happen. JMHO.

[dlsiouxfan]

Too long for a single post, so ...

http://boardsroom.blogspot.com/2009/10/str...ten-hockey.html

As an outsider to the hockey forum I think this type of cooperation would be what's best for both sports and is something that should be strongly considered to keep both sports viable. The BTHC is almost a sure thing as Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Michigan will bully Minnesota into going along with it in only a matter of time. People may think otherwise but UND hockey would suffer with a schedule filled with Division II and Division III schools. If you don't think so just ask the fans of the other sports on campus.

[gopherz]

I agree the Alerus is a joke and over grown grain bin and I think Dynamite and bulldozers would be a better solution. That being said I don't see the BTHC ever happening. I think we are wasting a lot of time talking about something that will probably never happen. JMHO.

The problem is the cost of renovation/getting a new arena is more than private money for UND will fund, and is much more than ND tax payers will be willing to pitch for.

[brucespook]

Would Minnesota be happy hosting the league tournament every 4 years or so?

[dlsiouxfan]

Would Minnesota be happy hosting the league tournament every 4 years or so?

It really doesn't matter what Minnesota thinks. There a small fish in the Big Ten. They can drag their feet on this but what Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Michigan want they will eventually get.

[brucespook]

I don't think they could be forced to leave the WCHA, they would be a force in a BTHC.

[The Sicatoka]

If I wasn't deathly sick, I could go on for hours of why that isn't at all feasible.

You're a Gopher fan; you're sick by definition.

Let's throw a few things out there...

1. Money - UND has no chance of financially supporting an FBS football team, especially if they want to be at all successful.

And there's no way a $113 million dollar hockey rink could be built at UND.

2. Hockey - You can't have the best of both worlds. If you want your football team to make the necessary spending to jump to FBS, your other sports are going to suffer. That's just the nature of the beast.

Please inform Misters T Brewster and D Lucia and T Smith of same.

3. Alerus - Is a joke. You can't just easily add 2,000 seats to a tiny stadium to meet the requirements. So basically, the renovations, or the need for a totally new stadium would be much more expensive than UND could afford.

Really, then why waste time on things like "Plan 2" in here.

http://grandforkslife.blogspot.com/2007/12...for-future.html

4. NDSU - If NDSU can't make the jump to FBS, what makes you think UND can? Unlike UND, NDSU doesn't have a huge hockey program to support. Their main focus is football, and they still cant do it. It sucks, but North Dakota does not have the population or dedicated fan base to support FBS football.

Have they tried?

5. Fan support - You think a move to FBS is going to change this? Usually a team transitioning from D2 to 1AA garners a huge increase in fan support, look at NDSU for an example of that. This past weekend, though I only saw it on TV, there seemed to be not even half the seats sold.

6. Team - The quality of the team has a long long way to go before making the jump. Just lost to a NAIA team...NAIA!?!? Most FBS teams see it as a huge embarrassment losing to a top FCS team (see: Bison beating the Gophers, Michigan losing to App State).

Nothing can ever change from what it is today. Got it.

7. Big Ten - REALLY!??! UND wouldn't even come near the academic and research levels required for schools to be in the Big 10. I don't remember the stat, but I believe all the Big 10 schools are in the top 40 or 50 in research, and many are in the top 10.

8. Other schools - You really think UND would get the approval of schools like PSU/Illinois/etc? I can't see any of those teams too thrilled about having to come to North Dakota.

First, we're talking affiliates for Big Ten Hockey, not full Big Ten membership. Next, they're talking Miami of Ohio, Western Michigan, and Bowling Green. I'll take UND head-to-head academically against those three.

In regards to the BTHC, I think it's going to happen. I can't see why else UNO and Bemidji were added. I can totally see why Wisconsin is justifiably royally pissed off. There is nothing in it for them, the WCHA has become a joke for them. In my opinion the only reason Minnesota is still here is to keep the great rivalry with teams like UND, and to make sure programs like SCSU/UMD/Mankato and other small Minnesota schools can stay alive. Losing Minnesota and Wisconsin would mean death for a lot of the smaller programs over time.

I agree. But UND can't take actions to protect anyone but itself. Control what's yours to control. If being FBS give you any shot at Big Ten Hockey affiliation, you have to consider it.

I would love the idea of playing UND yearly still, because I love the rivalry and it doesn't get any better than that. That being said, I still think it's selfish, but better in the long-run for Minnesota and Wisconsin to try to look into a BTHC that would include Notre Dame. One huge reason I'd like the Big Ten to do this, is to lure Notre Dame in for other sports. That'd be huge to get them in for Football and Basketball. Not only would it bring up ratings and conference exposure incredibly since Notre Dame has such a large and widely spread alumni base, but the extra money created for the conference would be incredible.

Notre Dame is the plum the Big Ten has sought for decades. Notre Dame coming in as a full member is what the BT wants. I'd guess we have to wait until the end of the ND NBC deal to see what comes next.

I'd say give it a few years and this thing will be a done deal. Being a huge Minnesota fan in nearly every sport, I'd love nothing more than to be able to play MSU/Michigan/tOSU every year a few times, instead of just playing Michigan/MSU once and Wisconsin twice. I don't want to lose the UND rivalry, but I don't think that'd be part of it. The blow to the other schools in the WCHA would be huge, as they'd lose a ton of national exposure due to it's 2 biggest media teams leaving...oh well, look forward to hearing some other's comments.

Big Ten Network money will be a big pressure.

Like I said, UND has to evaluate the changing environment and work to control what it can control.