Brent_Bobyck Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I am sure this has been debated before but I would like to open it up again. Of all the current and past players that have skated for the Sioux, who is the best overall player. This can be goalies, forwards, defenseman, anyone that has worn the Sioux Jersey. Remember, this debate should consist of only accomplishments that they have done IN COLLEGE. Nothing that a certain player has done in the pro's is fair game. Enjoy! I would like to cast my vote for the Circus, Tony Hrkac. My only argument: He is the only Hobey Baker Winner from UND. (Obviously my favorite is Mr. Bobyck.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Hrykac probably hands down the fan's favorite, but I could also make a strong case for Blake and Jeff Panzer. As far as Goaltending. Karl G seems like a legit choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Hard not to pick Hrkac, but I'll pick James Patrick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux fan in phoenix Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Choosing the best overall player at only 1 position is difficult for me so I'll break it down a little: Goalie: No question, Belfour most talented. Runners up: Goehring, J. Casey. Defenseman: J. Patrick-2 titles. Runners up: Ludwig, C. Murphy. Forward: Gotta go with Hrkac-Mr. Everything. Runners up: D. Smail, G. Johnson, J. Panzer & probably, even though it's a little early, Parise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commodore Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I had posted this in a different thread but it clearly is better said here: I'd have to say that the most exciting player that I've ever seen put on the green and white (and there's been a lot, this isn't easy) would have to be Karl Goehring. The first time I saw him during warmups I couldn't believe how *small* he was. As stated above, Hrkac was a man among boys; Blake, Johnson, and Panzer were all incredible players, Commodore commanded respect... but I chose Karl because during his four years with the Sioux he played with more heart and determination than any athlete I've ever seen. It seemed at times like he'd will a win for us. Watching him dive around the crease on a 2-man breakaway and block four shots before freezing the puck, that lightning-fast glove, and that feeling of calm when the opposition would get a breakaway because we knew that Karl would make the save are things that I really miss. Also watching his creative ways to see around 6' 4" screens (looking through their legs, etc.). Hopefully one of the goalies gets his s___ together this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman0099 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Karl. No one played like him. He was unstoppable in net, and probably the most mentally solid goalie UND has ever seen. Runners up would have to go to Greg Johnson, and Hrkac, however, I think we may be seeing a new possibilty develop over the next couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 It is a difficult comparison because goaltenders, forwards and defense have different values. I would rate the top goaltender as Karl Goehring (I did see Belfour, and although he is so far a better pro, he was only here 1 year and was not as dominant as Karl), followed by Casey and Belfour. The best forward was hands down Tony Hrkac. Troy Murray, Mark Taylor, Kevin Maxwell, Jeff Panzer and Jason Blake were all great, but Hrkac is the best college player that I have ever seen. He may have had an average pro career, but he dominated college hockey. The best defenseman is James Patrick. Curtis Murphy, Ian Kidd, Travis Roche and Russ Parent are some of the top contenders. Overall, Hrkac is an easy choice for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I'll split my vote. Best offensive player Hrkac, and best two-way player Troy Murray. Murray was physical at both ends of the rink as well as a great face-off guy and still put up great offensive numbers. (over 70 points in both his freshman and sophomore seasons I believe). I also believe he played during an era which was less wide open with brutal, physical defensive play. It's difficult to know how many points Murray would have put up had he played a third season, although I don't think it would have been in the Hrkac realm. Hrkac only played two years, but had one year of seasoning in the Canadian Development program in between his freshman and sophomore seasons. I haven't researched this, and I'm sure someone could come up with the actual numbers, but I believe Hrkac had about 170 points in his two seasons, and Murray in the realm of 146. I don't think there is any doubt that Hrkac's 1986-1987 season was the most remarkable season in UND history, perhaps college history. Two incredible, albeit contrasting hockey players. Couldn't go wrong with either one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I haven't researched this, and I'm sure someone could come up with the actual numbers, but I believe Hrkac had about 170 points in his two seasons, and Murray in the realm of 146. Tony Hrkac 84-85| 18-36-54 86-87| 46-70-116 Total| 64-106-170 Troy Murray 80-81| 33-45-78 81-82| 22-29-51 Total| 55-74-129 *statistics from hockeydb.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Wow, Guess I was more than a little off on Murray's second season. Guess the outcome of that season can make up for the point drop. The freshman season was even better than I suspected. Other than Kevin Maxwell's freshman season, I wonder where that rates in best rookie seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tboneund Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I'd have to say a tie between Tony Hrkac and Karl Goehring, with Belfour coming in a close second. I also think we might have some other potentials coming up this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Wow, Guess I was more than a little off on Murray's second season. Guess the outcome of that season can make up for the point drop. The freshman season was even better than I suspected. Other than Kevin Maxwell's freshman season, I wonder where that rates in best rookie seasons? UND's rookie scoring taken from UND Fighting Sioux Men's Hockey release on March 24, 2003: Points: Kevin Maxwell 82 Troy Murray 78 Zach Parise 61 Ken Johansson 59 Greg Johnson 55 Tony Hrkac 54 Dennis Hextall 53 Perry Berezan 52 Goals: Ben Cherski 38 Troy Murray 33 Bill Reichart 33 Kevin Maxwell 31 Perry Berezan 28 Cary Eades 27 Ken Johansson 27 Zach Parise 26 Ian Kallay 23 Garry Valk 23 PP Goals: Troy Murray 13 Mark Taylor 12 Ian Kallay 11 Cary Eades 11 Greg Johnson 9 Kevin Maxwell 9 Zach Parise 8 Assists: Kevin Maxwell 51 Troy Murray 45 Greg Johnson 38 Tony Hrkac 36 Dennis Hextall 36 Zach Parise 35 Ken Johansson 32 Rick Zaparniuk 30 Short-handed goals: Gord Sherven 5 Frank Burgraff 5 Zach Parise 3 Russ Romaniuk 3 Of note, Parise is the only player listed in all five categories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Of note, Parise is the only player listed in all five categories. That is very interesting, but not surprising. Parise has the potential to be the best to ever put on a Sioux uniform. Unlike Murray, Hrkac, and others, he was only 18 when he came to the Sioux. It remains to be seen if he will ever have a year like Hrkac had in 86-87, but I have never seen any freshman for the Sioux has as big of an impact as Parise did last year. Even when he was not scoring, he was very often the best player on the ice last year. Without him, I think that they would have been average or below like the previous year. He plays both ends of the rink, has incredible hockey sense, is a leader, and has a scoring touch. He also had comparable numbers to Vanek (Vanek had 62 points, 33 in the WCHA and Parise 61, 32 in the WCHA). Minnesota fans will disagree, but I think he is better than Vanek. Vanek just had a better supporting cast. He will now be a year older, and should have better players around him this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farce poobah Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 That is very interesting, but not surprising. Parise has the potential to be the best to ever put on a Sioux uniform. Unlike Murray, Hrkac, and others, he was only 18 when he came to the Sioux. It remains to be seen if he will ever have a year like Hrkac had in 86-87, but I have never seen any freshman for the Sioux has as big of an impact as Parise did last year. Even when he was not scoring, he was very often the best player on the ice last year. Without him, I think that they would have been average or below like the previous year. He plays both ends of the rink, has incredible hockey sense, is a leader, and has a scoring touch. He also had comparable numbers to Vanek (Vanek had 62 points, 33 in the WCHA and Parise 61, 32 in the WCHA). Minnesota fans will disagree, but I think he is better than Vanek. Vanek just had a better supporting cast. He will now be a year older, and should have better players around him this season. Points of fact, most of those top-scoring Sioux scorers were 18 when they pulled on the green and white for the first time. Kevin Maxwell was 18 during his rookie season in 78-79. (Turned 19 after the NCAA finals...) Troy Murray was 18 during his entire rookie season. Tony Hrkac was 18 during his entire rookie season. Greg Johnson was 18 during most of his rookie season. Perry Berezan was 18 during part of his rookie season. Hextall was 20, and I couldn't get an age on Johannson. Time to stop spreading the age myth ... the top of the list is mostly younger players. ======================================= As to the impact of Parise, I concur. He made/makes the rest of the team better. As to the discussion of Troy Murray's scoring, its worth remembering that the 80-81 Sioux were really REALLY inexperienced (after losing like 10 players off the '80 title team to the pros). As a result rookie Troy got a lot of PP time. In 81-82, he got a lot more ice time checking the opponent's top line (with Sykes and Eades as linemates). ======================================== Who would I tab as the best Sioux player ever? I've only seen since '75, so really can't comment on those that came before then. Of the Sioux players I've seen, I would pick JEFF PANZER. First, he's the 3rd all-time scorer, if memory serves, and had he played during the 80's or early 90's, maybe the all time leader. He led by example, gave 100% every shift, scored dozens of big-time goals, won an NCAA ring and 3 WCHA crowns. During his years with the Sioux, there was always this feeling that we would win, even if the opponent led by say 3 goals with 4 minutes left. And I think his total contribution over 4 years should outweigh the admittedly better scoring stats that Hrkac put up over 2 years or Belfour over 1 year. Hard to argue with any of the names listed earlier, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Jason Blake - 172 points in three seasons. I have to throw his name out there because he was so exciting of a player. You never knew what he was going to do on the ice at any given time, before, during, or after the game. His explosiveness and moves in the offensive end were breathtaking at times. His 172 could have easily been 200 at UND if he would have converted on half the break-aways he had during his career in the green and white. I think he has to be the career leader in 1 on 1 breakaways. A lot of that having to do with him not knowing the definition of "defensive awareness." He definitely has proved he is a two way player now in the pros. Have we as a team had more than five breakaways as a team over the past couple of seasons? Remember when odd man rushes, 2 on 1's, 3 on 1's were the norm for the Sioux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamStrait Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 IMHO, Mr. Anthony Hrkac. Why? Because he was obviously always just toying with the oppositon. Never have seen such a dominant player at the college level. He never seemed to be rushed into anything he didn't want to do. He was always in control of the game when on the ice and everyone on and off the ice knew it. Phenomenal anticipation. Everytime #21 in green and white stepped onto the ice, everyone watching leaned forward, expecting something mind-blowing to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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