The Ralph to Display Tribal Flags

[GeauxSioux]

The Ralph to Display Tribal Flags

Something is going on behind the scenes...

A plan to display a pair of tribal flags at the Ralph Engelstad Arena is adding fuel to the UND nickname flap.The flags of the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock reservations are set to be unveiled Oct. 5 before the UND men’s hockey game against the University of Manitoba during an on-ice ceremony featuring native singers and drummers.

Jody Hodgson, the arena’s general manager, said Friday the flags of the two Sioux reservations will hang permanently inside the arena.

As part of a protest last year, His Horse Is Thunder said, he took down his tribe’s flag at the Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument in Montana. He said the fact that the Ralph Engelstad Arena is on private land would keep him from doing the same there.

“I wish I could go there and take the flag down and say, ‘No, you’re not going to fly our flag here,’ ” he said.

Does anyone have know anything about this?

[sioux7>5]

The Ralph to Display Tribal Flags

Something is going on behind the scenes...Does anyone have know anything about this?

I think this is a good sign for those of us that want to keep the nickname. I think His Cow is His Silence, is finally seeing that the people on the reservation support the nickname.

[Sioux-cia]

...the arena remains

[kfah1]

Would the native signers and drummers be from the Standing Rock and/or Spirit Lake tribes? If so, how will that play out with the anti-nickname squad? Could the tribe themselves (RHHT, etc.) put a stop to that?

I think this something like this could've/should've been done awhile ago. However; I'm not sure this will make a difference in the overall scheme of things. Sure throws a curve into the question/debate of if/when the nickname goes away.

[darell1976]

I think its horrible to display their flags in the arena. The same people want our nickname gone are going to have their flag in our arena?? I say let RHHT take the damn flags and do what he wants with them. I want to see nothing from those 2 tribes until they agree on the nickname and that is not going to happen. This is Grand Forks not Ft. Yates or Ft. Totten so keep the dancers and flags and pow wows to the rez keep it out of UND! If they don't believe us that we honor the nickname as is then keep the Indian dancing to the reservations and not at a UND sporting event! The name is going to be gone in over 2 years and there is nothing UND and these 2 tribes can do to agree to the name, not without a public tribe vote, not a vote of tribal council memebers.

[mksioux]

Something is going on behind the scenes...

Or a classic case of "too little, too late..."

[Riverman]

I think its horrible to display their flags in the arena. The same people want our nickname gone are going to have their flag in our arena??

Our arena?

[petey23]

I think its horrible to display their flags in the arena. The same people want our nickname gone are going to have their flag in our arena?? I say let RHHT take the damn flags and do what he wants with them. I want to see nothing from those 2 tribes until they agree on the nickname and that is not going to happen. This is Grand Forks not Ft. Yates or Ft. Totten so keep the dancers and flags and pow wows to the rez keep it out of UND! If they don't believe us that we honor the nickname as is then keep the Indian dancing to the reservations and not at a UND sporting event! The name is going to be gone in over 2 years and there is nothing UND and these 2 tribes can do to agree to the name, not without a public tribe vote, not a vote of tribal council memebers.

I disagree. Putting the flags of the reservations up is a good idea. Afterall the great majority of the tribal members either support or are indifferent to UND using the Sioux name.

[darell1976]

Our arena?

Yes our arena the fans of the Fighting Sioux.

[darell1976]

I disagree. Putting the flags of the reservations up is a good idea. Afterall the great majority of the tribal members either support or are indifferent to UND using the Sioux name.

They are going to look at this as trying to honor the name now when we honored the name back in the 30's. Its not going to change their mind, if it does i will officially become a Bison fan.

[mksioux]

If there was goodwill on the other side, I'd agree this is a good idea. UND has shown an abundance of goodwill and it's never reciprocated. As it stands, I don't like this move.

[darell1976]

If there was goodwill on the other side, I'd agree this is a good idea. UND has shown an abundance of goodwill and it's never reciprocated. As it stands, I don't like this move.

Kinda too little too late. And what about the other Sioux tribe that straddles the ND/SD border wouldn't they complain if their flag wasn't flown in the arena too, they are upset that the Sioux don't need approval from them.

[siouxprideforever]

If we think that the ND tribes have brought this issue forward it merely exposes our short-sightedness! The Tribes did not bring race into this argument - if we on this board bring it up - well then we are what we are. The NCAA put this issue on the table and the Tribes - just like UND had to react. To argue with the Tribes at this point shows our colors - just as much as thiers. If we are the proud fighting Sioux chosing to embody the sprit of the Native Americans of our state - then we should be proud to fly their flags - lest we expose our hypocracy. If we don't believe in the same - then it is time to change!

[Sioux-cia]

I disagree. Putting the flags of the reservations up is a good idea. Afterall the great majority of the tribal members either support or are indifferent to UND using the Sioux name.

I believe Ralph would approve.

[mksioux]

If we think that the ND tribes have brought this issue forward it merely exposes our short-sightedness! The Tribes did not bring race into this argument - if we on this board bring it up - well then we are what we are. The NCAA put this issue on the table and the Tribes - just like UND had to react. To argue with the Tribes at this point shows our colors - just as much as thiers. If we are the proud fighting Sioux chosing to embody the sprit of the Native Americans of our state - then we should be proud to fly their flags - lest we expose our hypocracy. If we don't believe in the same - then it is time to change!

What do you mean by "bringing race into this?" And we're no longer allowed to argue with the tribes? That doesn't make any sense. I guess I fail to see where you are coming from with your post.

Yes, it's true the that the NCAA ultimately forced this approval issue, but it's not as if the tribes had been standing on the sidelines before the NCAA policy. Particularly Standing Rock, through RHHT, was actively antagonizing UND and protesting the nickname and logo at every turn.

The only real hate I've seen amongst the various players in this whole ordeal has been from the tribal leadership toward UND and REA. When reading their quotes, I could literally feel Thunder's and Peason's hate coming through my computer. You can't work with people that literally hate you, even with a million goodwill gestures. That's my point. I realize the majority of the people on the tribes probably don't hate UND and REA, but it still feels wrong to fly the flags of tribes where the leadership does.

Maybe here is my distinction with some Sioux fans. I believe the Fighting Sioux nickname was adopted to honor the Sioux tribes of the past. I honor the Sioux people of the past, and I'd have no problem honoring the current Sioux people if I had the slightest feeling it was welcome. But I've come to the conclusion that it is not welcome, so I do not honor them. I don't think it makes me a racist in the slightest. I think us Sioux fans have held on to the belief that the majority of the Sioux people see things differently than their leadership. But that can only go so far. At some point we have to realize that, by all accounts, the Sioux tribes are telling us they do not want to be honored, and quite frankly, despise us for trying. And it appears the more we try, the more they despise us. Given all this, there is no way I can look at those flags flying at the Ralph and feel good about it.

[siouxprideforever]

I guess good people have a right to disagree. My point is that just because some of us might be democrats and others republicans and the other party happens to be be in power - I would refuse to fly the american flag! If you believe in what I always understood Ralph's admiration of the Fighting Sioux to be you wouldn't question their present fight to do what they believe is correct. They are fighting! I would also agree that the majority of them don't give a rat's hind end about the name of our team. But, I also believe that had not the NCAA put it on the table - the politicians would have quieted their hue and cry when no one jumped on their band wagon! Regardless of whether or not we agree with Mr. Horse is Thunder, when we start making fun of his traditional American Indian name - it becomes racial!

[redwing77]

I think any news like this only hurts UND. Right now, the air is rife with the hippie-esque ultra-liberalism PC mantra that has us saying such things as:

"Who cares what the Republicans have to say. Who cares what the Democrats want. I'm voting for Obama because he's not Bush."

That's merely one of them. By the way, I thought there was hate for Hillary...then Palin comes around and I'm floored by what hate really looks like.

and no, I'm not a Republican. I'm not a democrat. I do plan on voting because that gives me, imo, the license to complain and criticize what our government is doing. I'm just at a loss as to where to find out real information about both candidates because I can't look to the media. They are either anti-Obama (FoxNews) or anti-McCain (everyone else). There are no objective sites.

All this is going to do is to incite more of this stupid rhetoric about how we abuse the nickname. I say make whatever in-roads you can with the tribes, but do it in private, behind the scenes, and otherwise out of the public eye. Then, when the time has elapsed to gain approval or not, you can change the name and then expose the tribes for the hypocrites they are by releasing all of the actions the University has taken to try to come to some sort of agreement with the tribes.

This move is just stupid. Expect protestors now. Best keep it quiet than stir the flames.

mksioux is 100% correct. There is no collaboration with people who hate you. All you do every time you try to work with them is just further incite their hatred.

[sioux7>5]

I guess good people have a right to disagree. My point is that just because some of us might be democrats and others republicans and the other party happens to be be in power - I would refuse to fly the american flag! If you believe in what I always understood Ralph's admiration of the Fighting Sioux to be you wouldn't question their present fight to do what they believe is correct. They are fighting! I would also agree that the majority of them don't give a rat's hind end about the name of our team. But, I also believe that had not the NCAA put it on the table - the politicians would have quieted their hue and cry when no one jumped on their band wagon! Regardless of whether or not we agree with Mr. Horse is Thunder, when we start making fun of his traditional American Indian name - it becomes racial!

His tradional native american name. The mans given legal name is Ron McNeil. He is an attorney and from what little research I have done grew up in upstate New York. I am not trying to be a smart-ass but with his given last name, maybe he should worry more about the Fighting Irish then the Fighting Sioux!

[Goon]

At this stage of the battle, displaying those flags can't possibly hurt our cause. It can only help, and in a worst case scenario we'd be no better or worse off than prior to those flags being displayed. Here's my best analogy, when you're down by two goals with five minutes left in the 3rd period you have to take some chances. Better to go down fighting till the final second than to concede defeat with time left on the clock.

I am not so sure with Ron his horse thunder making such a statement leads me to believe that maybe its not helpful.

However, we could be wrong too, maybe they are the ones that are out of touch with what their tribal members want?

[fourwindsboy]

2 things jump out at me. 1. If UND was sincere they would have done this decades ago! @. All this is, is a public ass kissing. How low will UND stoop?

[Let'sGoHawks!]

2 things jump out at me. 1. If UND was sincere they would have done this decades ago! @. All this is, is a public ass kissing. How low will UND stoop?

The nickname debate has sparked great dialogue between UND and the tribes...I think this is one thing that simply wasn't thought of before. Look for more things like this to happen in the coming weeks and months. This isn't "ass kissing", it is education. For example, personally, I had no idea the tribes had their own flags, now I know, and will see them everytime I enter the Ralph.

[sioux7>5]

2 things jump out at me. 1. If UND was sincere they would have done this decades ago! @. All this is, is a public ass kissing. How low will UND stoop?

I think it is funny that you think that UND is somehow stooping to a low level, while tribal leaders will not even listen to the members of their own tribes. I think that leaders you do not listen are only after setting their own agenda and not that of the people they represent. So to me the tribal leaders are the ones that are stooping really low.

[Oxbow6]

The nickname debate has sparked great dialogue between UND and the tribes...I think this is one thing that simply wasn't thought of before. Look for more things like this to happen in the coming weeks and months. This isn't "ass kissing", it is education. For example, personally, I had no idea the tribes had their own flags, now I know, and will see them everytime I enter the Ralph.

Neither did I, but sadly probably neither do many NAs on the reservations, especially the youth.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

... Afterall the great majority of the tribal members either support or are indifferent to UND using the Sioux name.

As an aside-to me, these flags are obviously pretty new. (Did any flags exist before say, 1800?) I'd say flying a flag like this is a bit different than a display of genuine artifacts of the 19th century. JMHO.

My first reaction is that this looks a lot like the recent Josh Howard flap. Some people (in this case, some members of the Sioux tribe(s) ) may not like what is happening, but they don't own those flags any more or less than the Sioux tribe members who are going to visit your arena and speak this weekend. I'd say neither can or cannot tell the other that they can't use the flag.

[fourwindsboy]

I think it is funny that you think that UND is somehow stooping to a low level, while tribal leaders will not even listen to the members of their own tribes. I think that leaders you do not listen are only after setting their own agenda and not that of the people they represent. So to me the tribal leaders are the ones that are stooping really low.

Come on we're not a bunch of ignoramous'. The tribe flag hangs on almost all entities on the rez. You should come to the rez sometime you'll find out.