hermit Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I can see the side of the argument that says "Sioux" is the name of their people and so others don't have the right to use. I don't necessarily agree completely with the statement, but I can understand that side of the argument. That said, hermit, you are wrong. UND was given permission to use the name long ago. UND has used that name for a very long time, and now it has become UND's identity, at least from an athletic and nickname perspective. UND has every right to use that. A somewhat reasonable compromise has been reached on the public opinion impass, and that is to allow the Tribes to decide if they will allow UND to continue to use the nickname or not. The largest difference of opinion now is whether that decision should be left up to a few in the Tribal Councils who may have their own personal agendas, or whether that opinion should be decided by a vote of the Tribes at large. I think any other argument about the meaning of the word Sioux being derogatory is moot considering the Tribes have used that name for so long themselves. Any argument that says UND doesn't have the right to use the name is also moot, being it was given to UND to use. The only argument is whether or not it is acceptable for that name to be removed by forces outside of UND decades after UND began to use it and received permission to do so. The big ceremony that you alledge gave the university the right to the name was one guy who was only a member of the Standing Rock Tribe. When did UND start using the name and logo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 The big ceremony that you alledge gave the university the right to the name was one guy who was only a member of the Standing Rock Tribe. When did UND start using the name and logo? Even the Fool Bears in the letters they've written to newspapers have said the name was given to UND to use. Take it up with them. I didn't use the words "big ceremony" anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 hermit, you have yet to answer my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxlove Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 hermit, you have yet to answer my question. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tXaaupVM0s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 hermit, you have yet to answer my question. What even is your question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 That is nonsense. Like has been posted, it is in the public domain. How about the "Dakota" in the state's name? How about Washington State? If the decedents of George Washington don't like the state being named for him, should they be able to force a change? How about the city of New Germany Minnesota? Should Germans or people with German ancestry (my family) be able to force a change? How about the USC Trojans? Should they have to change their nickname becuase there are no Trojans left to ask how they feel about the name and hence forth we don't know if it is approved or not? This is not even close to being the same thing. You can try and spin it around all you want but it still does not work. When was the name Germany used for the country anyhow? A little over a hundred years? Using a name as a name for something is not the same as using an ethnic group to try and pump your sports teams up. Exactly when was it that the Lakota/Dakota people first moved to the Devils Lake region and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux27 Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 It appears as though SS.com now has its own version of BCON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 It appears as though SS.com now has its own version of BCON. It is his alter ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 This is not even close to being the same thing. You can try and spin it around all you want but it still does not work. When was the name Germany used for the country anyhow? A little over a hundred years? Using a name as a name for something is not the same as using an ethnic group to try and pump your sports teams up. Exactly when was it that the Lakota/Dakota people first moved to the Devils Lake region and why? It is the same thing. Answer the rest of the question as well. You left out some of it. Do you know why Bismarck, ND was named Bismarck? Because they wanted to entice German investment to come there. In other words, to "pump it up". How about the Trojans and USC? How about the city of George, Washington? Again, should the first president's family be able to force that city and the state it is in to change their names? For that matter, should North Dakota have to change its name? How about Sioux Falls and Sioux City? How about Sioux Tools? Why is it Irish people don't have a problem with Notre Dame? The Green Bay Packers? After all, packers is a nickname for a group of people. Same with the Purdue Boilermakers. How about the New Orleans Saints? I am devoutly Catholic. But I realize it would be stupid and insane to protest New Orleans' use of the name "Saints". The same can be said of St. Paul, Minnesota. Sports teams, Cities, and Companies are named for something people are proud of and want to support and that means something to the supporters. No one names a company, city or sports team, or etc for something disgraceful or something no one wants to support. No one would name their teams, company, or etc. Idiots Inc. or Fighting Dummies. What it comes down to is the Natives are on a strictly political agenda. Why do you ask when Lakota/Dakota people first moved to the Devils Lake region? It has nothing to do with the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 It appears as though SS.com now has its own version of BCON. Who is BCON? Is that a bad thing? It must be a NDSU troll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 A minority of a minority of them do not want "whitey" to use and benefit from the Sioux name. As I've said before and I'll say it again, that is a racist position because it is a decision based upon race. They try to say it is offensive but if that were true the NA's would not use the name themselves. When this clear logic is presented, the ones like hermit trot out the same nebulous "you'll never understand" response. The whites took their land and they can't take the land back but they can take the name back and so that is some sort of feel good retribution poke in the eye for the RRHT types and the white, professor racists too. The NA's experienced terrible sufferings and there is no arguing the cruelty that white people did against them but taking the name back after it was given is not going to make it like those things never happened. Neither is it going to allay any angry, racist feelings that the PC'ers hold. Neither is it going to improve any relations between the communities. Their goal is to score one against what they believe to be the oppressive masses. It is not to "improve self esteem" or improve relations between the communities. I'd respect the PCers at least some if they were honest about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Who is BCON? Is that a bad thing? It must be a NDSU troll... Grand Valley fan who loves to get people riled up. Also isn't a fan of the sioux name and uses the same old lame "reasons" why the name should go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Grand Valley fan who loves to get people riled up. Also isn't a fan of the sioux name and uses the same old lame "reasons" why the name should go. Cool gotcha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourwindsboy Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 If they chose to use the name that is their right. You just made the point for me. If the Native Americans wish to use the names of either Indians, Warriors, or whatever that is their right becaue it is who they are or were. Where as since you are not members of the Lakota or Dakota Nations then you do not have the right to use their name because it does not belong to you. You people are members of the Fighting Sioux Tribe which is not a recognized tribe by the Federal Government. I do not see you tribe at the Pow Wow this week. My error for equating people here with midgets. I put down the midgets who are on a higher evolutionary scale then you people. At least they have cognitive abilities. It is normal for people like you to put what they do not wish to hear on ignore. Head up the as& is easier to deal with than reality. When cherished values are threatened find a scapegoat to blame. If we as Native Americans can't call ourselves warriors, indians, etc, than what can we call ourselves? We are not Fighting Irish, Trojans or Spartans. To me its simple, we established our school and we are NA's so we can use those names. No NA's were involved in the establishment of UND so you shouldn't be using the nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 If we as Native Americans can't call ourselves warriors, indians, etc, than what can we call ourselves? We are not Fighting Irish, Trojans or Spartans. To me its simple, we established our school and we are NA's so we can use those names. No NA's were involved in the establishment of UND so you shouldn't be using the nickname. Interesting hypothesis. I suppose Seminoles were involved with Florida State from the beginning, and Utes were involved with Utah. Sounds like you guys don't value higher education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourwindsboy Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 You know whats interesting about Arkansas State changing their nickname is the fact that the new president who initiated the change happens to be one Dr. Robert Potts, who was the former chancellor of the NDUS. Dr. Potts' resignation from that position was sudden and rather mysterious to me. Hmm, you think it had anything to do with his position on nicknames? I think it so. GO DR. POTTS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 It is the same thing. Answer the rest of the question as well. You left out some of it. Do you know why Bismarck, ND was named Bismarck? Because they wanted to entice German investment to come there. In other words, to "pump it up". How about the Trojans and USC? How about the city of George, Washington? Again, should the first president's family be able to force that city and the state it is in to change their names? For that matter, should North Dakota have to change its name? How about Sioux Falls and Sioux City? How about Sioux Tools? Why is it Irish people don't have a problem with Notre Dame? The Green Bay Packers? After all, packers is a nickname for a group of people. Same with the Purdue Boilermakers. How about the New Orleans Saints? I am devoutly Catholic. But I realize it would be stupid and insane to protest New Orleans' use of the name "Saints". The same can be said of St. Paul, Minnesota. Sports teams, Cities, and Companies are named for something people are proud of and want to support and that means something to the supporters. No one names a company, city or sports team, or etc for something disgraceful or something no one wants to support. No one would name their teams, company, or etc. Idiots Inc. or Fighting Dummies. What it comes down to is the Natives are on a strictly political agenda. Why do you ask when Lakota/Dakota people first moved to the Devils Lake region? It has nothing to do with the debate. It has much too do with the debate. Your arguement is that you are honoring the Native Americans of the state so how long have they been in the state? The rest of your arguement does not wash. Your comparing apples to oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxforeverbaby Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 You know whats interesting about Arkansas State changing their nickname is the fact that the new president who initiated the change happens to be one Dr. Robert Potts, who was the former chancellor of the NDUS. Dr. Potts' resignation from that position was sudden and rather mysterious to me. Hmm, you think it had anything to do with his position on nicknames? I think it so. GO DR. POTTS!! Potts resigned after many disagreements with President Chapman of NDSU, which were publicized at the time. Anybody paying attention would say that it wasn't that sudden as their disagreements started long before the month that he resigned. So, nope...I don't think that it had anything to do with his position on nicknames. As chancellor, I also don't think that he would have gotten a vote if the State Board voted on the nickname at the time that he was chancellor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 If we as Native Americans can't call ourselves warriors, indians, etc, than what can we call ourselves? We are not Fighting Irish, Trojans or Spartans. To me its simple, we established our school and we are NA's so we can use those names. No NA's were involved in the establishment of UND so you shouldn't be using the nickname. I guess I didn't realize that Native Americans own the use of the word 'warrior.' My apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 If we as Native Americans can't call ourselves warriors, indians, etc, than what can we call ourselves? The etymology of "warrior" is Old French (just like Sioux derives from French). "Indians" are people from Mumbai or Calcutta. Don't mess with the French or Indians. Those are their words. Find something else to call yourself, like Lakota or akicita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I guess I didn't realize that Native Americans own the use of the word 'warrior.' My apologies. They do. Just ask Marquette University. However, they do not own "Braves". Bradley gets to use that one (at least for the time being). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxlove Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 You know whats interesting about Arkansas State changing their nickname is the fact that the new president who initiated the change happens to be one Dr. Robert Potts, who was the former chancellor of the NDUS. Dr. Potts' resignation from that position was sudden and rather mysterious to me. Hmm, you think it had anything to do with his position on nicknames? I think it so. GO DR. POTTS!! WRONG!! You can go to the JQP: G-O-N-E thread in the UND COMMUNITY section to read more about why Dr. Potts' resigned. As an eductior in the State of North Dakota, I would think you would know why Dr. Potts resigned. But maybe, schools on the rez are governed by the tribe. I admit that I don't know. But because you are so woefully uninformed, here you go... http://www.grandforksherald.com/account/in...6section%3DNews Potts was forced out when the board would not back him up in a power struggle with North Dakota State University President Joe Chapman. AND before you start making WRONG assumptions, again, the President in the following refers to Joe Chapman, NDSU President http://www.grandforksherald.com/account/in...ction%3DOpinion Trouble began for Potts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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