Another One Bites the Dust

[MafiaMan]

ASU Announces New Nickname and Logo

I especially liked this part:

Wheeler wrote,

[hermit]

ASU Announces New Nickname and Logo

I especially liked this part:

Isn't being chosen as a nickname and logo for a university a source of great embarrassment and humiliation? Why is ASU choosing to 'honor' the red wolf?

Should we call all Italians Wops, Guinies(sp?) Greaseballs, Dagos, you will never understand.

[Chewey]

Should we call all Italians Wops, Guinies(sp?) Greaseballs, Dagos, you will never understand.

I guess when the Sioux stop calling themselves "Sioux" I'll understand. I guess when the tribes take the "sioux" out of their casinos and the images off of the casinos, I'll understand. The double standard is something that is not understood and it should not be understood because it does not make any sense at all. And lumping "Fighting Sioux" in with the other words you brought out only adds to the lack of sense.

[hermit]

I guess when the Sioux stop calling themselves "Sioux" I'll understand. I guess when the tribes take the "sioux" out of their casinos and the images off of the casinos, I'll understand. The double standard is something that is not understood and it should not be understood because it does not make any sense at all. And lumping "Fighting Sioux" in with the other words you brought out only adds to the lack of sense.

No you will not. Your argument lacks total merit. The dominant group can never understand the minority group nor do they care what the minority group thinks or feels. Do people of Polish decent like being called dumb fuc*ing Polacks? Do Irish like being called Micks? Do French like being called Frogs? It does not make sense because you choose for it not to make sense. This will probably get me banned from these boards because I have found if you are against the logo you can be banned. I love how a public forum can be created but don't go against the tide because we don't want that so you are banned. We only want one opinion shared here, ours.

[dagies]

No you will not. Your argument lacks total merit. The dominant group can never understand the minority group nor do they care what the minority group thinks or feels. Do people of Polish decent like being called dumb fuc*ing Polacks? Do Irish like being called Micks? Do French like being called Frogs? It does not make sense because you choose for it not to make sense. This will probably get me banned from these boards because I have found if you are against the logo you can be banned. I love how a public forum can be created but don't go against the tide because we don't want that so you are banned. We only want one opinion shared here, ours.

That dog doesn't hunt because Sioux is the name they've used for a very long time. It's a little different than the examples you offer.

[Chewey]

No you will not. Your argument lacks total merit. The dominant group can never understand the minority group nor do they care what the minority group thinks or feels. Do people of Polish decent like being called dumb fuc*ing Polacks? Do Irish like being called Micks? Do French like being called Frogs? It does not make sense because you choose for it not to make sense. This will probably get me banned from these boards because I have found if you are against the logo you can be banned. I love how a public forum can be created but don't go against the tide because we don't want that so you are banned. We only want one opinion shared here, ours.

Same old, same old. Incidentally, the ones who oppose the nickname do frequent here but they ban themselves because they just can't take being disagreed with so they have to go to their own forums to be reassured. We actually do care what a minority group feels as we are for a reservation-wide vote on both reservations. It's Ron His Horse is Thunder who does not care what his own people want. Before, he and others of his ilk were of the opinion that "you never asked us what we think." Now when they are asked -- reservation-wide -- somehow RHHT and David Gipp are offended that the tribes are being asked. Just throwing out this same old tripe does not get it done for your side of the argument. Inane comparisons, emotional outbursts, etc. are of little logical value. Polish people don't refer to themselves as "dumb fuc@king Polacks." Irish people don't refer to themselves as "Micks." French people don't refer to themselves as "frogs." RHHT and others of his ilk do refer to themselves as "sioux." Evidently, they think it's alright. Such images and the "sioux" name are all over the casinos so they must be alright. My apologies for not comprehending the twisted logic of such a blatant double-standard. If the words are wrong and offensive, they're wrong and offensive. If the tribes vote that they are wrong and offensive, so be it. What it really boils down to is that a lot of people want the name and find it non-offensive and a small fraction of people mad about past injustices (which we all are), which did happen and were terrible and were inexcusable, find this as a way of getting back for those injustices. Taking the name will not redress, or even begin to redress, those injustices. It may make a few twisted people temporarily feel good that a lot of people are very bummed by the loss of the name but the genesis of the same twisted vengeance-driven spirit will be there still. It's quite pitiable, really.

[MafiaMan]

Should we call all Italians Wops, Guinies(sp?) Greaseballs, Dagos, you will never understand.

Ooh...a shot at my heritage. Nice touch!

Honestly, changing the Wahpeton Wops nickname to whatever it is now hasn't affected my life one bit. If anyone in Wahpeton hated Italians before, they probably still do now.

If Venice, Milan, or Genoa chose to call their local sports teams "Dagos," how could city leaders possibly turn around and scold the University of North Dakota as being racist should it choose the same nickname?

[Chewey]

Well said. This is exactly the same kind of disturbing mindset as that held by the religious fanatics in Devils Lake. What rational person would truly think that yelling "Go Satans" constitutes worshipping the Devil? If someone thinks a name is offensive and degrading, it makes sense that the person would not use the name to refer to himself or herself.

[hermit]

That dog doesn't hunt because Sioux is the name they've used for a very long time. It's a little different than the examples you offer.

Spin all you want there is no difference that an educated person could see.

[BigGame]

Yes, hermit is the only one around here with a real education. Proof is that he actually believes the down with the white man BS that is spewed out by some extrem professor. I don't even care about the UND nickname thing anymore but your arguements are just flat stupid and you try to make them stand up soley by trying to be subtle and claiming if your white your and racist and don't understand.

[Chewey]

Spin all you want there is no difference that an educated person could see.

Ah, yes. Here we go again. The "ineffable truism that you plebes will never understand" argument. Why is there life on earth and not the other planets? Answer: there just is. I guess this is one of those that can't be understood but must be accepted as reality. Oh, I see.

I guess what he really meant is that only a truly indoctrinated or thoroughly conditioned person could understand the convoluted reasoning (generously described) that nickname changers live by. Any free-thinking, rational, educated person should not be able to comprehend it. It's no more than this: We're angry, it's our way or you're stupid/uneducated, we're going to stick it in your eyes and feel really good about it for awhile until our twisted spirits of control and contempt resurface and we have to find another so-called injustice to complain about. Logic and a rational basis for argument are superfluous and unnecessary.

[dagies]

Spin all you want there is no difference that an educated person could see.

Why don't you explain it to me then.

I made the point that the names "dagos", "wops", etc are not the same as the name "Sioux".

Why don't you offer an explanation that shows that they are the same, then?

[YaneA]

Let's review...

Team Name Changed in Response to Hostile/Abusive Policy

Arkansas State: Red Wolves (formerly Indians)

Carthage College: Red Men (formerly Redmen)

Chowan College: Hawks (formerly Braves)

Indiana University of Pa.: Crimson Hawks (formerly Indians)

Univ. of Louisiana, Monroe: Warhawks (formerly Indians)

Midwestern State: Mustangs (formerly Indians)

Northeastern State: River Hawks (formerly Redmen)

Southeastern Oklahoma: Savage Storm (formerly Savages)

McMurry: using no nickname (formerly Indians)

Catawba College: must be called "Catawba Indians," by virtue of tribal approval, cannot be just "Indians"

Nickname retained, so far:

Bradley Univ: Braves (5 yr. watch list)

Newberry College: Indians (projected change Fall '08)

Illinois: Fighting Illini (retired Chief Illiniwek)

UND: Fighting Sioux (3 years to obtain tribal approval)

William & Mary: The Tribe (performed electrolysis on logo; removed hostile and abusive feathers)

Alcorn State: Braves

Exempted, by virtue of tribal approval:

Cent. Michigan: Chippewas

Fla. State: Seminoles

Mississippi College: Choctaws

Utah: Utes

[DamStrait]

It's becoming obvious that "hermit" is not one by choice.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

If the Natives are all right with using the name "Sioux", then it should be alright for other people to use then name. Otherwise, it is a double standard.

[hermit]

If the Natives are all right with using the name "Sioux", then it should be alright for other people to use then name. Otherwise, it is a double standard.

It is their right to use the name, UND does not have that right.

[hermit]

Why don't you explain it to me then.

I made the point that the names "dagos", "wops", etc are not the same as the name "Sioux".

Why don't you offer an explanation that shows that they are the same, then?

Go into Bensonhurst and start calling people dagos or wops and see how fast you get your as% kicked. The pure Italians that I know hate those names because they are deragatory. Also no instructors have taught me that the name is wrong, it is never even brought up in classes. I do not go through life with my hood on backwards. I have been watching UND hockey for longer than probably 90% of you and most likely have known more players on a personal level than any of you. I think Uncle Ralphie was a racist Nazi and the best front the Chicago Outfit ever had in Las Vegas. Those Hitler parties were not spoofs. I knew about them back in '86. He was very lucky to not have lost his license but I suppose crawling on your knees to the Gaming Com. did not hurt.

[Chewey]

It is their right to use the name, UND does not have that right.

UND was previously given the tribes' approval in 1969. It is a name/term that is part of the public domain. What about the people in Sioux Falls, Sioux City, etc.? So the NA have the right to refer to themselves using, according to RRHT and Gipp, such a terrible and offensive nickname/term? That makes sense. If you listen to RRHT and Gipp, they are not even Sioux. They are Lakotah, etc. If you listen to them, "Sioux" was a derogatory name given to them by the French and other tribes so they don't really have the right to use it either without getting the consent of the descendants of the rival tribes and French trappers that used the offensive term to describe them in the first place, right? Usuing the arguments of RRHT and Gipp, they don't have the right either.

[Sioux-cia]

Go into Bensonhurst and start calling people dagos or wops and see how fast you get your as% kicked.

So, when I go onto a reservation and start calling people Sioux, I can expect to get my as% kicked?

[dagies]

Go into Bensonhurst and start calling people dagos or wops and see how fast you get your as% kicked. The pure Italians that I know hate those names because they are deragatory. Also no instructors have taught me that the name is wrong, it is never even brought up in classes. I do not go through life with my hood on backwards. I have been watching UND hockey for longer than probably 90% of you and most likely have known more players on a personal level than any of you. I think Uncle Ralphie was a racist Nazi and the best front the Chicago Outfit ever had in Las Vegas. Those Hitler parties were not spoofs. I knew about them back in '86. He was very lucky to not have lost his license but I suppose crawling on your knees to the Gaming Com. did not hurt.

Your logic doesn't flow. That's my exact point. You will get your butt kicked by using those names. However "Sioux" has been a name these people have used to identify themselves for a very long time now. That's why your "dagos" example doesn't work.

Keep trying.

[sioux7>5]

Go into Bensonhurst and start calling people dagos or wops and see how fast you get your as% kicked. The pure Italians that I know hate those names because they are deragatory. Also no instructors have taught me that the name is wrong, it is never even brought up in classes. I do not go through life with my hood on backwards. I have been watching UND hockey for longer than probably 90% of you and most likely have known more players on a personal level than any of you. I think Uncle Ralphie was a racist Nazi and the best front the Chicago Outfit ever had in Las Vegas. Those Hitler parties were not spoofs. I knew about them back in '86. He was very lucky to not have lost his license but I suppose crawling on your knees to the Gaming Com. did not hurt.

Well don;t we think we are important. Hope you did not break your arm trying to pat yourself on the back to hard.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

It is their right to use the name, UND does not have that right.

That is nonsense. Like has been posted, it is in the public domain. How about the "Dakota" in the state's name? How about Washington State? If the decedents of George Washington don't like the state being named for him, should they be able to force a change? How about the city of New Germany Minnesota? Should Germans or people with German ancestry (my family) be able to force a change? How about the USC Trojans? Should they have to change their nickname becuase there are no Trojans left to ask how they feel about the name and hence forth we don't know if it is approved or not?

[sioux7>5]

If these people are so against people being mascots where are they protesting at every Vikings home game. But let me guess that is different. My guess is Ron His Horse Is Thunder would approve in a second if he thought it would gain in some politcal power or money.

[Goon]

I think Uncle Ralphie was a racist Nazi and the best front the Chicago Outfit ever had in Las Vegas. Those Hitler parties were not spoofs.

Jon Hoff? You sound just like him with the garbage you are spewing.

Lets review;

It was where Engelstad's eccentric side was uncovered when the Nevada Gaming Commission fined the casino $1.5 million in 1989 for "embarrassing the industry" after revelations about his collection of Nazi memorabilia in a hidden casino room where he twice hosted parties on Adolf Hitler's birthday.

Engelstad apologized publicly and an FBI investigation could find no evidence he harboured any pro-fascist political beliefs.

[hermit]

Jon Hoff? You sound just like him with the garbage you are spewing.

Lets review;

What do you call someone who has Hitler birthday parties and a portrait painted of himself as an SS officer? The Gaming Commission had only given out one fine before Uncle Ralphies that was larger, that was to the Stardust for letting the Chicago Outfit skim the joint. How did he keep a union controlled by Chicago out when no one else could? The Gaming Commission called his collection the "War Room". Stevie Bluestein was a main business agent organizer at the time and he was also part of Tony Spilotro's crew out of Chicago. The president of the union got killed over not paying the bombers that he had bombing restaurants around the valley for not organizing. So then why was Uncle Ralphie allowed to be non-union? What about Uncle Ralphies partnership with a mob lawyer in Apex?