fightingsioux4life

There is a big difference between playing an FBS money game early in the season and being able to compete weekly with 85 scholarship FBS schools. FCS Appalachian State made huge waves when they beat Michigan on the road, not to mention the three consecutive FCS titles they won before that. That hasn't translated to consistent winning at the FBS level, certainly not vs. the middle to upper echelon of the Subdivision. They are basically bottom-feeders in FBS. If they are that good, why don't they schedule two FBS money games each and every season? Because they know it's a big risk to get banged up before the MVFC and FCS regular season schedule. And that is what would happen.

You are putting NDSU's QBs on the same level as the QBs at Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State and God only knows who else. That is what your original statement implied: So you really think the top schools in the SEC and ACC would have been better off with Easton Stick than what they had to "settle for"? Please take your fantasies to whatever discussion forum LakesBison has set up for himself. Because that is the only place anyone will take them seriously. #koolaidisbadforyourhealth

Unless the G5 and P5 formally split, that won't get you much beyond a mid-level Bowl game. And I don't think NDSU fans would be in favor of that.

I am not even going to touch that one. Lay off the Jack Daniels will you? #cantmakeitup

The Big 12 has some really bad programs at the bottom. Obviously, Texas and Oklahoma are elite, but after that it drops off significantly. The Big 10 is deeper, but does have some dogs like Rutgers (which UND is becoming a mid-major version of, unfortunately). The MAAC is mediocre, but not as bad as the Sun Belt (or Sun Belch as FU fans like to call it). But all those programs can hope for is a bowl game nobody really watches or cares about. No CFP. No National Championships. Perennial 6-5 or 7-4 records. NDSU is not going to move up for that.

Yeah, you guys beat FBS teams, kudos to you for doing that. Having said that, you are the one that needs a math lesson if you really think NDSU could move up, get 85 scholarships and then recruit against teams like Michigan, Ohio State and the like. The budgets of FBS football schools (even G5 schools) are much larger than either UND or NDSU. Those extra 22 scholarships won't be cheap either. Beating an FBS team early in the season is great. But it's totally different than playing an entire schedule of FBS teams, week after week. Sustaining that year after year would be difficult, which is why NDSU isn't going to move up.

So should we get his Heisman bust ready? This guy making the Heisman "watch list" is beyond ridiculous, particularly with the kind of athletes in the top echelon of FBS. Honestly, it is a little concerning to read some of these comments. "Would love to see us get someone even close to that", "we won't play a better team than this again this year, so don't worry", and so on. It is like we are now accepting of the idea that all we will ever do is finish 6-5 every year with no playoffs and most of our wins will be against bad teams. It is very easy to get "used to" a negative situation and then accept it as the "new normal". It is human nature. But it is also a very dangerous trap to fall into. And we need to avoid falling into that trap.

NDSU is NOT an FBS program. And if they ever moved up for real, they would find that out pretty quickly. They could win the Sun Belt (which is pure garbage) and have some success in the Big 12 (lots of bad programs in that conference). But anything above that, they would get worn down by the depth and athleticism of FBS teams and their 85 scholarships. Look for some "Bring on Bama" or "Bring on Clemson" nonsense from the Moo U faithful in the coming weeks and months.

Yeah, they could have easily reached 100 if they really wanted to.

What @TheFlop is getting at is the lack of strong leadership at UND when it comes to stuff like this. NDSU has had strong leadership since they moved up and you see what a difference it can make.

We bought out Mussman, so we might do the same with Bubba if we keep wallowing in the mud.

That's just two more seasons. If he doesn't start producing better results, he won't get an extension. At least I would hope not.

I guess this is the reason I am so crabby right now. Seeing what is happening to athletics is hard to swallow, especially since I grew up following our teams and went to school during one of the most successful periods our teams have ever experienced (1993-2000). I have had my fill of NDSU and the Imperial Cass County media machine. The sooner we can punch back, the better.

This is where cultivating new potential donors is crucial to moving us forward and not backward. The new President and Chaves will need to hit some home runs, along with some singles and doubles in this area. Also, the Alumni Association needs to stop leaving athletics out of the fundraising agenda. They just announced a record amount of money raised and I bet little to none of it will help athletics. I truly believe we can be great in academics, athletics and research. We just need strong leaders in the right places.

We need to cultivate more relationships with potential donors not headquartered in Las Vegas. We cannot lean on one family to donate to our programs. Division I is just too expensive not to. I really don't want us to become a school with great academics and research and lousy athletics. I honestly don't think we have to choose between one or the other. We can strive for greatness in all three of those areas.

Well, I can't disagree with that. I enjoy sleep!

Don't you have something better to do, John Boy Walton?

The season is not lost. But today doesn't exactly inspire confidence. The bolded passage in your post is the heart of what is wrong around here. And this is a fan forum, where we get to vent about losses and whatever else. Don't expect all of us to be positive 100% of the time.

Being positive when there are real problems that are getting worse is denial in the face of reality. Why do you have this idea that being upset about the state of our programs is somehow going to negatively affect recruiting? The way I see it, if people are upset about the lack of success in an athletic department, that means they care about the school and its programs and want something better for the athletes, alumni and community. That is something I would want to be a part of as an athlete. Strive for excellence and be disappointed with anything less. Chaves and our next President have their work cut out for them. I do not envy them one bit.

Spot on. Agree 1000%. And I no longer care how much crap I get from people. Some things need to be pointed out, whether people want to hear them or not.

Back in the 1980's, NDSU had a similar level of dominance. UND turned the tables starting in 1993 with that pivotal game in Grand Forks. I blame Mussman for running the program into the ground after Lennon left for SIU. Like @SteppenHawk said, I also blame the lack of leadership at the top of UND's Administration, which has led to a lack of facilities needed to compete at the Division I level. This athletic department has been run like a high school for too long now. Heck, I am surprised we haven't started selling baked goods outside of the stadium and/or arena yet. There is a lot of work to do and the longer we wait, the worse it will get.

I didn't mention Bubba once in my comments. The problem is that we don't have the facilities to compete consistently at the Division I level. That falls squarely in the lap of UND's administration, which has provided rudderless leadership for a long time. What you saw today, what you have seen over the past several years in other programs on campus, are the natural consequences of this leadership vacuum.

Yeah....because if you say anything negative at all, you are not a real fan. The fact that people think the two are mutually exclusive is part of the problem.

Excuse me, but I never said I cared more than anybody else. But it is a fact that if you pretend there isn't a problem and don't speak up about it, it isn't going to magically go away. What I don't like is the insinuation that I am not a "real" fan because I have the nerve to point out what is wrong and why it needs to be fixed before anything will change for the better. This whole Pollyannish attitude of "support the coaches and players and be positive all the time" may make people feel better, but it won't fix what is wrong. And what is wrong is a lack of leadership at the top of UND's administration.

And how many mediocre and disappointing seasons do we have to have before something is done about it? The question never ends up getting answered after the season is over because nobody wants to acknowledge the 800 pound gorilla in the room. This is the sort of "Aw, shucks, nothing we can do about it, everything is fine the way it is, let's move on" mentality that I have noticed seep into the administration and athletic department over the past 10-12 years. We have had rudderless leadership from UND's administration for such a long time I forget what strong leadership looks and feels like. And a look at the state of our programs gives you an idea of the consequences of that thinking. We don't have Phase II of the HPC. We have 80 year old FB locker rooms and facilities in Memorial Stadium which even a good Division II program would be embarrassed to have. And on top of that, 52% of FB revenues get skimmed off the top by REA, Inc. And then people have the unmitigated gall to say the FB program should just "pull itself up by its bootstraps". Never mind that the bootstraps are old and worn out and haven't been up to code since about 2005. We are just supposed to pretend that all is well and not worry about it. When we made this move to Division I, we should have known it would cost a lot more money to put competitive teams on the field/court. It would take more fundraising and more thinking outside the box to fund more scholarships, new and/or upgraded facilities and a new athletic department wide attitude towards making all our programs successful. But we haven't done those things. We still try to fund our athletic department with season tickets, Champions Club memberships and 50/50 raffles. A Division II funding model won't work anymore. We aren't playing the likes of Augustana, Winona State or UM-Crookston anymore. I do think Chaves has the potential to help turn things around (his MBB hire showed the creativity and outside-the-box thinking that Tom Buning and Brian Faison were incapable of). But we do need to hire a strong UND President to clean up the mess Kennedy left behind in so many areas of campus. And one of those messes is the athletic department, which, with the exception of volleyball, has produced average at best teams over the past several years. It all starts at the top. And we have been lacking in that area for a long time.