Chewey

Soon after the interview, Jeanotte said his staff wasn't given enough time with the Standing Rock group to outline their programs and that the group was

I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, there must be some glimmer of hope if that avenue is actively being pursued right? If the AG thought that there was no hope there would have been no 3 year time table. The agreement regarding the emblems at the Ralph would have been the same. If there is no hope, then it would seem that an "immediate" name change would be the logical route. I suppose the 3 year time table would have some value as to easing into a change but I do not believe that the NCAA would have agreed to a 3 year time table unless there was at least some prospect of gaining tribal approval. Perhaps the tribal council members' positions as tribal council members are precarious. Maybe UND is being told by indian supporters that new tribal councils may be elected that would be more favorable to the name. Tribal politics are truly strange. Every two years the leadership flip flops from one sect to the other. At least that's the way it was on the Turtle Mountain reservation. Jiggers Lafromboise lost then 2 years later he, or someone from his sect, got elected again and so on and so forth. I think bringing the matter to more light on the reservations will only help UND because it will inform the tribes of how respectfully the name is being used and of what they stand to lose. Hopefully, accountability for stupid decisions still exists on the reservations.

If the UofM does not play UND in any sport other than hockey, so be it. The hypocrisy of its policy will be even more evident when it plays other teams with indian nicknames. Other schools that have indian nicknames have won approval from namesake tribes and the UofM would play them. If UND got permission from the namesake tribes, UND would be off the list and, according to the UofM's own policy, it would be ok for UofM to play UND right? If UofM and WI and IA do not play UND, we can schedule Iowa State, Nebraska, Missouri, Colorado State, Montana, Boise ST (all schools that are, for the most part, just as close as UofM, WI and IA). The policy of the NCAA is that a school with an indian nickname is off the $#!% list if it gets approval from namesake tribes. If UND gets it, I don't see a problem right? I guess if UofM, WI and IA still would not play UND that would show some sort of unreasonable bias apart from the nickname itself. UND has a huge following in Minnesota so I would not be surprised to see the policy quietly go away in a few years, after further "reflection" spurred by numerous complaints from UND grads in the cities area. You have to laugh about the arbitrary and capricious absolutism of academia.

I see where some members of the Standing Rock Community came to UND for a meeting with faculty and staff and students. Predictably, the same principled voices of change and noble arbiters of racism could be heard haranguing against the name through the walls. Where are the police reports/investigations substantiating their claims of racist incidents on campus? There are none because they know they could be prosecuted by filing false reports. I would hope that the stark contrast between sound, logical, common sense, balanced reasoning in favor of the name and the unbalanced wailing and gnashing of teeth by very strange people against the name would be evident to the tribal members visiting campus. If nickname proponents remain balanced and do not engage in the behavior exhibited by the anti-nickname crowd, the pro-nickname position will be more effectively communicated and advanced.

When the A.G. indicated that lobbying would be inevitable, what forms of "lobbying" do you think he meant? Ron His Horse is Thunder seemed to indicate that he, at least, did not want a bunch of UND people going around the reservation at all. What's he have to fear, if the support against the name is so strong? One can hardly expect that the lobbying of the chosen sect by the PC campus elites would not be countered by UND actually trying to take the message to the reservation inhabitants that the name and the university are not "racist."

Well, regardless of how much it is, getting whatever amounts is going to help people on the reservations a lot more than not getting them. I can't claim to understand the pathology of the PC mindset but it seems obvious to me that more money to the tribes would be a good thing. If someone came up to me and indicated that he/she would pay me $500,000 per year to use my name, I'd jump at the chance. If the tribes were to indicate that they would disallow use of the name if the PCers could come up with money to pay them, I wonder what the reaction of the PCers would be. It's a no-brainer to any rational person: An additional income stream vs. no additional income stream.

I agree. The "Fighting Caucasians" would be great! Perhaps the "Fighting Norskmen" (sp?) Incidentally, that would be an excellent logo.

For those who have worked in the political arena, and I believe PCM is one of them, what can be done legislatively to reign in organizations like the NCAA?

I agree with you entirely. Even if we don't get "approval" we should keep the name. This is exactly what someone should do to further call attention to the idiocy of the NC00. Something legislatively really needs to be done to reign that abusive entity in.

Any agreement would have to be for a series of years or else what you pointed out will happen. If there is an agreement for a series of years and one party bolts, there will be remedies. The big question is whether the remedies would be sought in tribal court or state district court. Anyone in law knows just how much of a cluster#$%^ tribal courts are. No UCC for the enforement/establishment of creditor rights. In most cases, the tribal court judges are anything but unbiased. Petty, decades-old grudges are the coin of the realm. There have been no "racist" incidents to report which is why DYB and others of her ilk can only talk about what they've heard or been told by various "victims." Who are those people? Where are the police/campus reports to back up the "racist" claims? What really irks me about the nickname debate is that various people can argue "racism" without a shred of evidence and the NC00, for its own purposes, takes such b.s. claims as gospel to support its claim that the nickname/logo is "hostile and abusive." There is no accountability for outright fabrication. Rather, such lying and deceit is rewarded for purposes of accomplishing cynical, political ends. If keeping the name means that UND has to wipe the nose of every PC hack who concocts or, more likely, hallucinates a "racist incident" and must conduct an "investigation" and impose "consequences," pitch it. While I would not support cutting programs for indians that are presently in place, I certainly would not advocate for more programs/services. In that 99% of the alumni probably feel the same way, alumni dollars will probably become more "narrowly tailored."

So, are there any predictions? What do you REALLY think will happen? Does anyone REALLY think the tribes will agree to it? Do you think the AG was just being two-faced when he indicated that he thought there would be a good possibility of working something out with the tribes? I'd like to believe that there is some truth to this but maybe I'm just in denial. The reservations are well-springs of apathy. If His Horse Is Thunder and the tribal councils of both reservations remain as intransigent as they have been, I'm not at all too sanguine. Does anyone really agree with the AG on this?

Why not just adopt the "Nordiques" (from the North) or the "Fighting Grenadiers" (Infantry)? Quebec has no hockey team and I'm sure no one would object. I say make one pitch to the tribes and leave it at that. If the leadership members are too stupid to recognize an opportunity that would make life better on the reservations, so be it. Maybe the pocket books of the name change faculty members could be tapped? I too would like to see just "NOrth Dakota" if the "Fighting Sioux" must be retired.

How about "Stormtroopers"? We could always say that it would be inspired by Star Wars and not the NSDAP. I'm sure George Lucas would accept a humble offering to allow us use of the name.

If Minnesota and Wisconsin won't play us because of the name, fork 'em. Iowa State, Nebraska, Colorado State, Missouri, and many other schools are nearly as close and would play us anyway. The two-faced nature of the UMN and WISCO is almost too much to tolerate. We'll play Central Michigan and whomever else with indian nicknames but not UND?

Those are good points. I'd love to see them as the cavalry. Perhaps the "Fighting 7th Cavalry" or something like that. That is not "objectifying" indigenous peoples and we would not have the "I am not a mascot" whining.

Why not just go with the "Dakota" or with "Dakotans"? The first simply refers to the last part of our state's name. The second simply refers to the state's inhabitants. This could be a take from the MIAC where the team names are the St. John's "Johnnies" the St. Olaf "Oles" etc.

I can't believe that the tribes would not agree to something if they see that the conditions on the reservation will improve. Perhaps that's want the tribal councils are afraid of? If they are presented with something that will bring more resources and money to the reservations which would improve the lives of the indians, how could they refuse and be re-elected? I guess that presupposes that the tribal "leaders" would be rational and not simply reactionary. Maybe I'm presupposing too much?

What realistic possibility is there for working out a deal with the tribes? Can they vote on it or would the PC powers that be actually prevent it? One would conclude that the tribes would agree to something as long as some revenue flowed their way and helped conditions on the reservation. Perhaps some sort of arrangement like FSU has with the Seminole tribe? I'm still not clear on what symbols are going to stay at the Ralph. I can't really imagine that all of the logos on every chair and on every piece of marble would have to go but maybe I'm in denial. I too think we did ok with the NC$$. If we had won the suit, I still have a difficult time believing that the NC$$ would have had the votes or political guts to implement a broad-range policy, through a vote of its membership, that would have roped in FSU and the like. For that reason, I am disappointed that they did not press on.

Jahnke wrote, in a three-page memo denying the motion, the two sides had appeared to be close to resolving their differences following a July 13 meeting. "However, between July 13 and August 19, a number of media articles appeared, both in North Dakota and elsewhere, which continued to focus upon divisiveness of the litigation, both on the UND campus and within the Native American communities," Jahnke said. "The net result of the continuing regurgitation of this divisiveness was that just days before Aug. 19, one of the parties withdrew from its earlier indication to settle." What does anyone think the terms of the "settlement" that was abandoned by one party were? I read it as the NCAA agreed to some sort of deal where UND keeps the name/logo and the NCAA saves some face but then the PC powers that be lobbied the NCAA to abandon whatever agreement was reached after understanding the terms. Further, I think the "divisiveness" part of Jahnke's remarks indicates that the PC powers believe that holding onto the name, as per the proposed "settlement," would case further "division" on campus. Therefore, "for the good of the university," whatever agreement needed to be "scuttled." Since the NCAA wanted the records sealed, one can only conclude that it was the party that withdrew from the "settlement" talks. Maybe UND is saying "allow the status quo and never bother us again or, if this goes to trial, all of your dirty laundry will be publicly known." Maybe the NCAA has agreed to this but the PC powers don't like it? Some of this sort of stuff has been discussed previously on this site by many of you. I am just wondering what you think this latest language from the bench really indicates. I too don't like all of the NCAA-style secrecy business.

Agreed. Why allow the bullies to save face at all? I think some sort of actions should be pursued against the professors at UND who have helped the NC00 do all of this. If they start doing what the nuts at UofI did, there should be personal accountability exacted from them.

Does anyone think that there will be yet another continuance? The AG mentioned some meeting in January that the NC$$ is having and he indicated that he wants the thing to go to trial before that meeting happens. Would that meeting be simply another meeting for the NC$$ Executive star chamber or would it be a meeting of "all department heads" so to speak? Would the whole NC$$ vote on the indian naming at that meeting? I would think not and I would think that it would take a lot more than one meeting to overcome opposition from FSU, etc. Given the complexity of the litigation, I would think that memos, motions, witness lists, etc. will need to be filed very soon so that the Judge and his staff are well prepped with all of the applicable law and rules by the time of trial. Any thoughts? With most well-financed, legal bullies, the staredown usually lasts until two weeks before trial and then the bullies become suddenly "reasonable." I'm sure that's a lot to expect from an organization as imperious, over-reaching, reactionary and tyrannical as the NC$$ but I was just wondering. I'm sure it shares the same pathology as other big, well-financed bullies.

A whopping 3 -- MN, WI and IA. Besides these, aren't there like hundreds of other colleges that have athletic teams? I thought so but I'm not so sure now given the assertion that "no one will play us." I thought I heard that there were universities in Fargo, Ankeny, IA, Lincoln, NE, Norman, OK, etc. etc. Can someone confirm or deny the rumor?

The PC loons should be rounded up and made to go away.