Chewey

I guess when the Sioux stop calling themselves "Sioux" I'll understand. I guess when the tribes take the "sioux" out of their casinos and the images off of the casinos, I'll understand. The double standard is something that is not understood and it should not be understood because it does not make any sense at all. And lumping "Fighting Sioux" in with the other words you brought out only adds to the lack of sense.

Think of the irony if the Fighting Sioux (hostile and abusive nickname and people should go to Hell for even uttering it) play the Fighting Irish (not hostile because they are not people and, even if they were people, they would be white people and we don't care about them) in the national championship game for hockey.

Maybe I'm too much of a pollyanna but I wonder if there's any chance of getting it to a vote before Goetz takes out his cleaver. I would hope that there are some of the alumni working with Mr. Fool Bear and others to actually get it to a vote. We have 3 years and it seems like Goetz just wants to use the new president as an excuse to get it over with quickly. Don't these people realize the problems that will be caused by just handing down a fiat decided by only a few people? I think everyone would be a lot more accepting of a nickname change if it actually went to a vote and both tribes decided against it. All one needs to do is look at Dartmouth to see how well "we three kings have decided" kind of policy does.

It sounds like we do but that the challenge is getting some resolution for a vote in front of the tribal council. I am sure RHHIT is pressing Goetz to hurry up and do it in order to take pressure off. Loser.

Today's GF Herald: Fat Lady to Come Out in 5.

Probably. But it can't hurt either. Any new word on getting a vote to the tribes? I think if it were to go to a vote, the controversy would be over one way or another.

Over the top? Are you serious? With "JackJD" as your handle, I presume you're in, or were recently in, law school, right? Wasn't a "complaint" filed and wasn't the sorority "sanctioned"? Maybe Jim Grijalva is or was your Con Law professor? He's a nice guy and an ok hockey player but objective he is not. Marcia O'Kelly was a raving feminist but she had some modicum of objectivity about her. When you have, previously, individuals on this board advocating that anyone using the "Fighting Sioux" nickname or wearing "Fighting Sioux" attire should be removed from the Ralph and when you have a sorority being sanctioned for dressing in a certain way, off-campus, that is "offensive" to a minority of a minority, you have a free speech issue. Keeping the name is within our control, to a degree. Put it to a vote of the entirety of both tribes. If the name is so harmful, let the anti-nickname crowd agree to such a vote and let us see if the tribes agree with them. If the name is changed, there would be a much smoother transition if such vote were held. It's been 30 to 35 years for Dartmouth and they still have issues over their old nickname. I think a vote of the tribes would go a long way to preventing that sort of post-name change phenomenon for UND. Newsflash: People are allowed to behave like idiots, even sorority and fraternity members. Doesn't "time, place and manner" ring any bells for anyone?

The whole thing is so incredibly asinine. If my two kids dress up as the Lone Ranger and Tonto for Halloween and we go trick or treating close to a university campus, we're going to have trouble. This is what happens when the freedom of speech is squelched by the hyper-sensitivity of a few. New social mores dictate that we should all be offended by inane and idiotic behavior? How does this help people cope in the real world? How does this help people become more economically productive for purposes of competing with other countries? How does this help secure our borders? This whole PC paranoia is emblematic of the intellectual lethargy, creative atrophy, and the perpetuation/incessant tautologizing of race-based stereotypes all to common in today's so-called academia. It's all about control and power. If one can call another a "racist" for pretty much anything and the other fears being called a "racist" over and over again for standing up for himself, there is considerable power yielded over the other by the first person. There was nothing racist about the party at all, overtly or inferentially. The real spirits of "racism" lay in the troubled hearts and minds of those who are offended. The onus of racism is on them and they use racist tactics to promote their own agendas. Helpful suggestion that needs to be internalized and implemented: Get a thicker skin.

It does not seem that anything quoted was bad stuff. What I worry about are the PC plants like "grahamkracker" who may post self-serving racist remarks on this site and get quoted by Haga and others. You see that on the gfherald comment section every time a nickname related issue is discussed. I love the nickname and there is nothing racist about it. They really should press for a vote on the reservation. The natives need to know how much reverence respect we have for the nickname.

Well said. I think the party was not the brightest thing to do. The baloney stirred up by the PC zealots is idiotic.

God, that's no big deal at all. So a bunch of college people dress up like native americans off campus. Big deal. If there is a party where people are dressing up like Catholic priests and nuns, is that going to be offensive to descendants of people who were persecuted in 1400 or 1500? What a bunch of baloney.

Put James Patrick, Commodore, Landon Wilson and others of similar disposition in a room with Myles and Co and the NC00 reverses its policy and we don't worry about the exercise of free speech --- even the incredibly stupid exercise, like this -- having an impact on retaining the name.

It would not surprise me with Ford. Henry Ford was a supporter of Adolf Hitler so I suppose there is some face to be saved even in stupid ways like this. Ford's market share is like 19% and declining and we probably won't have to worry about it being around much longer. Maybe it should have better things to worry about than a nickname right?

The answer...drum roll: The ND Republican Party is run pretty much by fools and they are reluctant to dig up dirt on the three; there's plenty of dirt there. They don't even need to do that. Here's a start for them: 1. Remind the west how Bryon Dorgan was in favor of Measure #6 in 1980. The tax on oil companies - intended to benefit the educators in the east - made it unprofitable to produce in ND. The oil market did not tank really until 1986. Therefore, the hard economic realities with respect to the oil markets hit the west 4 to 6 years earlier. Measure #6, along with Bryon Dorgan having state residents make their tax checks out to "Byron Dorgan, State Tax Commissioner", gave him the House seat. 2. Remind the Minot voters that when Kent Conrad beat Mark Andrews, Minot lost its fighter wing and Ted Kennedy brought that fighter wing to Massachusetts. Had Mark Andrews remained the Senator, that would not have happened. Remind the western voters that Kent Conrad did nothing to get the so-called "Rail Garrison" going for ND. 3. Remind the North Dakota voters that Dorgan, Conrad and Pomeroy could not keep the B-1B's in GRand Forks. The B-1B's went to Rapid City. 4. Remind the North Dakota voters that the three could not even keep missles in GRand Forks during the Clinton years. The missles went to Montana. 5. Remind the North Dakota voters that the three could not keep Grand Forks Air Force Base off of the base realignment and closure list. 6. Remind the NOrth Dakota voters that the three could not get funding for the big highway project that was to go up and down highway 83 or, alternatively 52, all the way to Canada, thereby, increase commerce and safety between Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Bismarck and Minot. 7. Remind them that it has taken over 20 years to get the appropriate funding to make highway 2 a 4 lane from Grand Forks to Minot. 8. Remind the voters that the three with all of their "influence" can not get the farm bill passed. Just a start.

He's an Ojibiwe, like T.J. Oshie, so his opinion shouldn't count right? That's what the PCers indicated when T.J. Oshie stated that he proudly supports the nickname. Where are these victims and where is the data indicating that the nickname actually causes such ills? Just because a few guilt-ridden, angry PCers (most of whom are white) say it does means that it does? That's about all they can offer and such a claim is itself racist. Marc Ranfranz and T.J. Oshie seem to have done pretty well, the supposed deleterious effects of the nickname notwithstanding. What a bunch of baloney. Oh, and according to this guy's logic, it's ok for the victims of racism to continue the saga of misery by racially stereotyping themselves? What planet are we on again?

What he said. That's very good and very true. We need to start calling the alumni office and, perhaps Goetz's office itself, and apply some pressure there.

Maybe the NCAA should find hair pieces hostile and abusive if worn at an NCAA sponsored event. I bet Dorgan would be all over that one; he's given hell to camera people who shoot him the "wrong way." Don't even get me started on Pomeroy who could be a dead ringer for any sex offender (it's the smile).

When there are weasels like Dorgan and Conrad (the Republicans are not much better) tied to the hip of PC crowd, what can you do? It's our elected officials who need to step up to the plate and strike up legislation breaking up the NCAA or reigning it in. At the end of 06, there was some movement going towards holding the NCAA to the fire but that quickly fizzled when the Dems got control of Congress.

Maybe the NCAA equivocates around the hypocrisy using the tribe-sanctioned argument. Not that it makes sense or anything in the first place.

It looks as if DYB is at it again. The number of natives attending UND is down by about 2 or 3 students and she claims that the nickname is responsible for it. She refers to the usual suspects -- Dana Williams and Leigh Janotte -- and their conclusions, and her own conclusions, as "proof." Any study by sociologist Dana Williams is going to be totally objective and forthright, I can tell you that. By the way, why haven't I seen PCM and ScottM posting here during the last couple of weeks? Did they die? Were they kidnapped and wisked away by the PC activists?

BTW, there are sub-zero temperatures in Mankato. I read on a blog that the protestors would be out. I wonder if it will be too cold for them to express their heartfelt convictions. It's too bad that people actually think that those bus-ins really are residents of the cities they assault.

What's PCM's take on this? Perhaps I'm naive but it may not be as dire as ScottM indicates. But, the tribal PC zealots are about as reasonable as the white professor PC zealots so I should probably not be too sanguine. As someone once told me about SAC when the GF Air Force Base lost its missles in 1995 or so and as that same person repeated to me when GFAFB lost its planes, people have long memories. In the case of the GFAFB, SAC had a long memory about UND professors and others protesting the military during the Vietnam War and the brass remembered how some people took pot shots at the planes with .22 rifles. In the case of the nickname, is anyone really stupid enough think that the nickname proponents and alumni are just going to forget and that there will just be so much good will in the air now when the nickname is gone?

How did we get to this point where irrational thought processes and arguments/positions like those referred to by the Chief are actually given credence and weight. How the hell can one arguing about skinned native americans and another arguing that the fighting sioux logo is like the swastika get viewed with anything but scorn and/or amusement?

Yes. And I think the rest are Brand, Harrison and the NC00 Executive Committee.

Agreed. I heard of this on NPR too. Don't they ever get that UND DOES NOT HAVE A MASCOT!!!!! The PC protest-minded "activists" do have the same mentality as Heydrich, Himmler and the boys. Remember the fellow on this board who said that all people who use "Fighting Sioux" at any hockey games should be removed? Personally, I think UND should just continue to use the nickname regardless of NC00 sanctions. Those French wannabes that settled the thing should be ashamed.