Teeder11

Classy.

Oh, and one more thing, if in the end this 11th hour Hail Mary pass by Spirit Lake gains any credible traction in a positive direction (retaining the name) and avoids backlash from the NCAA, BSC and others, I will be the first one to say "you were right and I was wrong" while eating a big plate of Humble Pie, heavy on the crow. I really do want to be wrong.

I love your passion, but for as much as the "surrender the name" crowd gets bashed for "speculating" and "predicting" that UND would be irreparably harmed if we kept the nickname (by NCAA, BSC and other schools that would shun us), there sure seems to be a whole lot of "ifs" and "What ifs" and hoping and fantasizing about "what ifs" being espoused by the "nickname at all costs" crowd. Not calling you one of those per se. Just making a general observation. Neither side can tell the future, but the former is based on pragmatic thought and a desire not to cut off ones nose to spite its face, while the latter is based on wishes and hopes. Tell you what, crap in one hand and wish in the other and tell me which one fills up faster.

YOU took the words right out of my mouth. And they're not NDSU boosters, either, like Shallow Al.

The latter 90s and early 2000s were pretty good years for UND, especially, 2001. You know, not to put a kabosh on the pissing match, because I think it's a lot of fun, and proves (despite what is said down south) that the rivalry is alive and well, but there are alot of teams at all levels that don't even have one National Championship. The fact that were having a debate about who's got more, I think, speaks highly of both programs. And once we get the two programs relatively on par again and back to the arms race of old, it will be a great day for all of North Dakota, as the two will drive each other to be better. There, now we can get back to whose dad can be the other's dad up.

I don't know where this is going, but bear with me. Whenever I travel around the area, I tend to always wear "UND" and/ or "Fighting Sioux" apparel. And in addition I am always conducting a an informal unscientific mental survey as to what teams are being promoted by others. Last night I attended the Black Eyed Peas concert in Minot with about 16,000 other folks from all across the region. I swear on my Grandmother's grave (and I tried to be very objective and fair as I could be), it was 50 to 1 UND to NDSU. Honest! The whole night I only saw one 30-something woman wearing an NDSU Bison Jacket. On the flipside, UND and the Fighting Sioux logo abounded --hats, jackets, jerseys, t-shirts, sweatshirts, you name it! Like I said, I don't know what this means. Maybe Bison fans don't like the Black Eyes Peas or rock concerts in general. Or maybe there are more Sioux fans to Bison fans in the Minot area. Who knows? But, no matter how you slice it, it was a proud day to be representing UND.

I was there too!

Some false starts would be nice too!!!

Ditto! Let's make Drake not know what him 'em with crowd noise. I wanna see a whole lot of Delay of Game penalties or T.O.s by Drake tonight!

I for one don't mind WYOBISONMAN chiming in. He has proven over time that he brings valuable discussion points without flaming the majority of the board. There's an art to that, especially, when you come in fully acknowledging up front that you are a fan of the opposition. And in the spirit of full disclosure, my problem with Carlson is also personal, because he's effn' things up to the degree that it could have irreparable damages on UND and its athletic department, both of which I love.

Amen and +1

Well put.

Where does it say that UND cannot plan for the future? This is what the NDUS told UND to do on Aug. 15, and this is exactly what UND said it would do on Aug. 15 in a public statement that was published in the media and on here. Why is it such a news flash all of a sudden today? I will say again: it is not against the law to plan ahead. It just make prudent sense to do so, instead of starting out flatfooted two months from now.

Accused UND of doing something wrong. You asked.

I hope you're right. And I hope it is positive for UND. But if his past track record is any indication, he better invest in a new crystal ball.

I never said that they did write their own laws. I was implying that they never broke anyone else's. They may be planning what they will do if the Legislator repeals the nickname law, but that is a far cry from breaking a law. So Al is upset because UND leaders, instructed by their bosses, are being prudent and planning their next steps? How dare those commie pointy-headed socialistic University leaders be so forward thinking? The audacity of it all!

Who's not following state law in this instance?

Actually, you are right. UND should not be moving forward with "actual actions" to retire the Fighting Sioux name. And, lo and behold, that's exactly what it's not doing. (I hope that makes sense) You are also correct in that UND should be moving ahead with developing plans on the course of action to be followed if the law is repealed. Oh, again, that is exactly what UND appears to be doing. Ah hell, let's just let UND President Kelley's own words speak for themselves: "Following a meeting last Friday between North Dakota officials and the leadership of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, the State Board of Higher Education held a teleconference meeting today and instructed me to resume the process of planning the retirement of the nickname and logo consistent with prior Board action. The State Board of higher education extended the deadline to complete that process through December 2011. I will resume the planning process, mindful of the state law which, as of Aug. 1, directs the University of North Dakota to continue to use our nickname and logo. Gov. Jack Dalrymple has indicated that he will urge the North Dakota Legislature to readdress that law in the special session of the North Dakota Legislature planned for November." So, it appears that the only thing that UND is doing/has done is put out a statement saying that it will restart the PLANNING PROCESS for retirement of the name, being mindful of the existence of the state law, which is exactly what you are condoning as well, unless I am misunderstanding you. As far as what Al is objecting to can probably only be explained by Al.

Oh heavens me, GeauxSioux! You must be one of those "scared little sorority girls." How dare you inject a little pragmatism into this thread?

That's my thinking too. NDUS is allowing UND to get the ball rolling on this "if" the repeal does in fact get approved in November. If the overwhelming sentiment in the legislature is that the law stay intact ( the death knell for UND athletics IMHO), the transition can be easily halted again. But to insist that UND wait until they make up their mind and start a potential transition flatfooted is ridiculous. Unless... you're an NDSU guy who has no actual concern for what happens to UND athletics in the first place, and whose new found appreciation for the voice of American Indians to be heard is as genuine as his concern for Fighting Sioux athletics. Rep. Carlson's been using a popular wedge issue (UND nickname) to score political points against NDUS. That's his target plain and simple. And if UND athletics becomes collateral damage in that pursuit, so be it! That's not right! I'm tired of my alma mater's athletic program being used as a tool or a pawn in his political game with NDUS. I think it's far more important for UND to show the Big Sky Conference that it is serious about addressing the conference's concerns than it is to pussyfoot around with Legislators (Carlson, Schatz, et. al.) so we can placate their egos, their self-inflated importance and their political aspirations.

Oh, yeah, I was going to tell you that I really enjoyed your assessment of the incoming players. Great insight! I learned a lot.

Judging by their character, I would say, no.

They will develop under Idalski's rigorous college regimen, a much higher-quality practice competition and elite game competition. If they are coming in "good" then I am sure they will leave "great." In the past 25 years, I have seen my share of men's recruits who've come in quite shaky and left as solid pro prospects.

I don't see that as a showstopper IMHO. Outside of North Dakota, the only people who have heard of Red River High School are alumni of the high school, former North Dakotans and a handful of Minnesota hockey teams who've played them. It would be a bigger problem for me if a well known school, institution, organization has the same nickname that is eventually chosen -- something more on a national level. But all that said, I don't think that the powers that be will allow the new nickname to be a human depiction of any kind, American Indian or otherwise. I hope I am wrong because I do like "Rough Riders."

Lots of very good ones! Uff da!