[Sioux-cia]

SoCalSiouxFan, on May 13 2008, 08:38 AM, said:

http://www.dailyastorian.info/main.asp?Sec...amp;TM=56623.66

Article in support of the Fighting Sioux name.

Nice.

But, we don't have a mascot.

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Sioux-cia, on Apr 30 2008, 05:24 PM, said:

"Lazy Mexican" ............ the way Mexicans are protrayed?

There is no one better than I am. There is nothing or no one but to stop me from reaching/achieving my dreams but me.

I'm currently in law school in Southern California and there are "Mexican" or Latin American students in the upper level classes that will be completing their Juris Doctorate degrees.

However for many "Mexican" students there is very noticable evidence of academic underachievement. There may be many excuses for this such as language or cultural barriers, or poor schools. But there is a prevalent and noticable lack of motivation (lazy?), especially in the middle grades to high school. Too often Mexican American students drop out of school and do not go on to college.

It is so true that there is no one to stop you but yourself. One of the first truths I learned in law school is that 2/3rds of the students do drop out before year two, and it is not the most intelligent or gifted students but those that put in the time and hard work that succeed.

[Sioux-cia]

When I first moved to North Dakota, I worked for Migrant Health for three summers. Because some people didn't know I was Mexican American ("You talk good for being Mexican", said the Norwegian who asked what I was.), they said things they normally wouldn't. I heard about the dirty, lazy Mexicans who came North in the summer. I would never be able to work 10-12 hours in a field hoeing weeds like they did. When I made home visits, the housing was usually in poor repair but ALWAYS it was clean. The children were well taken care of, clothes were usually hanging to dry after being washed out by hand and the people friendly after getting to know me. I learned that many had 'real' jobs in their home state, many were educated, more than a few were teachers. They worked the beet fields for the extra money it brought into the home. Many more were migrant workers who moved state to state to earn a living wage. Those were the 'lazy Mexicans' I met in North Dakota.

My mother and her siblings quit school and were migrant workers for three years after my grand parents died. None of us off spring ever lived or knew that life. 85% or more of us have attended or graduated from college. Unfortunately, for some education isn't that important while going out and getting a job to help support the family is a higher priority. I know that if you were to look at the different generations the newer ones place more value on an education than the older ones. Those 'new' to the US very likely place bringing home a paycheck at a higher priority than education. But, that will change for them as well.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Sioux-cia, on May 13 2008, 10:01 AM, said:

But, we don't have a mascot.

Sure you do. Just like your major donor served as a Field Marshall in Nazi Germany, they're burning crosses in front of the houses of people who's religion they don't like, your homecoming parades feature pictures of skinned humans....

For the haters, there is no such thing as inaccuracy. They will happily tell you that the drawing of the logo is a "mascot". Trust me-we NEVER had a mascot. Chief was always described (officially) as a symbol of school spirit. The haters just ignored that. They decided he was a mascot; therefore he was a mascot.

The haters hope that casual fans will lump the U of I and North Dakota in with the people who have guys running around with paper-mache heads shooting t-shirts into the crowd, riding ATV's around the stadium and mugging for cameras.

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Sioux-cia, on May 13 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

I would never be able to work 10-12 hours in a field hoeing weeds like they did.

Beet farmers also hired local High School kids to hoe weeds. I did it for two summers. It was great motivation for getting a degree. Who wants to hoe weeds for the rest of their life.

[The Sicatoka]

Committee.

No committee.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage

Which is it?

[Chewey]

The Sicatoka, on Jun 19 2008, 05:04 PM, said:

Committee.

No committee.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage

Which is it?

The translation, I think, is that he heard from the nickname advocates/alumni that progress is/was being made and that there is a lot of time to address this issue and that he should not simply hurry things along. I think there is progress being made. Hence the cries of institutional racism from the English Department, etc. to try and thwart any progress.

[The Sicatoka]

Chewey, on Jun 19 2008, 05:08 PM, said:

... Hence the cries ... to try and thwart any progress.

"Hence the cries" indeed ...

[The Sicatoka]

For those of you who think there's even a remote chance ....

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...mp;section=news

[ScottM]

The Sicatoka, on Jun 20 2008, 08:34 AM, said:

For those of you who think there's even a remote chance ....

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...mp;section=news

Well, we have to at least nominate Goetz for an Oscar for "Best Actor".

[sioux7>5]

OK who do you think will be on this committee. I am sure some tribal leaders will have a say. Which I think is crap, they want it both ways. Do not use our name, but let us tell you what we think it should be. If we change the name(I hope we don't) the NO tribal members should have a say. They should not even be allowed to participate at all in any way shape or form.

Go Cavalry!

[redwing77]

sioux7>5, on Jun 20 2008, 10:25 AM, said:

OK who do you think will be on this committee. I am sure some tribal leaders will have a say. Which I think is crap, they want it both ways. Do not use our name, but let us tell you what we think it should be. If we change the name(I hope we don't) the NO tribal members should have a say. They should not even be allowed to participate at all in any way shape or form.

Go Cavalry!

I think this is a bit extreme. I think the NA have a say.... provided they are currently enrolled at UND or are alumni of UND.

Their say is put in this fashion: NA voter has = weight as to that of the White Middle Class Person.

We're not dictators or non-democratic. However, after the nickname is gone, they are just another minority on campus and worthy of no special treatment outside of already planned or pre-existing services.

[sioux7>5]

redwing77, on Jun 20 2008, 11:16 AM, said:

I think this is a bit extreme. I think the NA have a say.... provided they are currently enrolled at UND or are alumni of UND.

Their say is put in this fashion: NA voter has = weight as to that of the White Middle Class Person.

We're not dictators or non-democratic. However, after the nickname is gone, they are just another minority on campus and worthy of no special treatment outside of already planned or pre-existing services.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If ther are a student or alumni I have no problem. I am saying the Tribal counsels have no say. They should not even be invited to the discussion.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

redwing77, on Jun 20 2008, 11:16 AM, said:

... provided they are currently enrolled at UND or are alumni of UND.

sioux7>5, on Jun 20 2008, 09:09 PM, said:

If ther are a student or alumni I have no problem.

I hope it doesn't come down to a committee to choose a new nickname, because I see nothing wrong with your current nickname. However, what I will add is that in case push does come to shove, I would go heavy on alumni and light on current students. The more flippant an attitude some younger people will bring, the less time people will spend on committee work; and that could lead you to being stuck with one of those "Bananna Slug" nicknames simply because people won't have a lot of time to waste with clowns.

[redwing77]

Chief Illiniwek Supporter, on Jun 20 2008, 09:26 PM, said:

I hope it doesn't come down to a committee to choose a new nickname, because I see nothing wrong with your current nickname. However, what I will add is that in case push does come to shove, I would go heavy on alumni and light on current students. The more flippant an attitude some younger people will bring, the less time people will spend on committee work; and that could lead you to being stuck with one of those "Bananna Slug" nicknames simply because people won't have a lot of time to waste with clowns.

Well the last time a college used a committee to change a nickname, it backfired BIG TIME.

Marquette changed their name to just "Gold" or something like that. The students and alumni verbally fireballed the University and they changed the name again.

I'd think the University of North Dakota would be smart enough to involve the students in more of a capacity than a student liaison or just the Student Senate.

[dakotadan]

ScottM, on Jun 20 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

Well, we have to at least nominate Goetz for an Oscar for "Best Actor".

I don't think too many people ever bought into the act that he was actually trying to do anything to keep the name.

As far as a new name, I just hope that the University doesn't rush it. Just give it time and let one naturally come about. The worst thing they could do is come up with as many variations of hawk/redhawk/riverhawk/warhawk they can think of and then have an online poll. The best old nicknames out there have come about unofficially in things such as student newspapers, etc.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

dakotadan, on Jun 20 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

I don't think too many people ever bought into the act that he was actually trying to do anything to keep the name.

As far as a new name, I just hope that the University doesn't rush it. Just give it time and let one naturally come about. The worst thing they could do is come up with as many variations of hawk/redhawk/riverhawk/warhawk they can think of and then have an online poll. The best old nicknames out there have come about unofficially in things such as student newspapers, etc.

I guess I have a problem with giving the current student government and the school newspaper a seat at the naming table as most of them are already trained to do what their adult counterparts did to the current nickname - flagellate and pontificate without action.

BobIwabuchiFan

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

redwing77, on Jun 20 2008, 10:51 PM, said:

Well the last time a college used a committee to change a nickname, it backfired BIG TIME.

Marquette changed their name to just "Gold" or something like that. The students and alumni verbally fireballed the University and they changed the name again.

IIRC, the committee here was the Marquette Board of Trustees. And there were at least two differences from your situation IMHO: they were changing from a nickname (Golden Eagles) that wasn't only unpopular with most (the replacement for the still-supported Warrior nickname) but even among those who don't hate it, the nickname failed to capture even mild interest. IOW, people either hated it or were apathetic about it-and the Board acknowledged this when they they tried to change it. The other difference IMHO was that their attempted nickname change was kind of a suprise: rather than your situation it was more of "well, lets change it and do it today".

Two things that I do recall with great amusement: the Chairman of their board released a "its going to be Gold from now on, so deal with it" statement-and within about a week he was backpedaling just as fast as he possibly could. And someone on their board was the president of a Milwaukee PR firm and he/she predicted great success for the nickname.

Soon after they were bombarded with bad publicity, the Board of Trustees announced an online poll of students and alums (specifically noting that any votes for "Warriors" would be disregarded) and among the unispired choices they threw in "Golden Eagles": the very nickname they previously said didn't generate enough support and needed to be changed.

And today, they're known again as the Golden Eagles.

And from what I've heard, at least once per game you'll hear the crowd chanting "Let's Go Warriors".

[dakotadan]

dakotadan, on Jun 20 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

I don't think too many people ever bought into the act that he was actually trying to do anything to keep the name.

As far as a new name, I just hope that the University doesn't rush it. Just give it time and let one naturally come about. The worst thing they could do is come up with as many variations of hawk/redhawk/riverhawk/warhawk they can think of and then have an online poll. The best old nicknames out there have come about unofficially in things such as student newspapers, etc.

BobIwabuchiFan, on Jun 21 2008, 09:19 AM, said:

I guess I have a problem with giving the current student government and the school newspaper a seat at the naming table as most of them are already trained to do what their adult counterparts did to the current nickname - flagellate and pontificate without action.

BobIwabuchiFan

I didn't say give the student government or the school newspaper the right to choose the new name. I just said to give it time and let one surface on its own. That is how all of the best nicknames out there came about.

[Chewey]

This whole thing is so ridiculous. Someone should have a backbone and indicate that their staying the "Fighting Sioux" and that's that. Personally, I think that the lawsuit should have gone forward, the good guys should have won, and the name stayed regardless of what the Executive Committee did next.