[choyt3]

Those poor kids. You can see their self-esteem eroding as you look at that picture. PCM, did you email that picture to D. Yellow Bird?

[PCM]

Clayton Hoyt, on Sep 9 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

Those poor kids. You can see their self-esteem eroding as you look at that picture. PCM, did you email that picture to D. Yellow Bird?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll let someone else do that.

Aniak High School must have one of the most politically incorrect logos in use anywhere. A crossed rifle and spear? A white guy and a native staring each other down? I don't even know where to begin feeling offended.

[dakotadan]

HockeyMom, on Sep 9 2005, 01:37 AM, said:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...59§ion=news

Majority in N.D. support ‘Fighting Sioux,’ poll shows

This just up on the Forum's site.

The majority of Native Americans in North Dakota do not oppose the nickname.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote

Marty Davis of Belcourt, N.D., a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa who attended UND in the 1970s, said she remembers homecoming parade floats with unflattering depictions of Sioux Indians.

This is one of the things that bothers me the most. The people who oppose the nickname keep bringing up things that happened in the 60s and 70s. They obviously don't understand how the name and logo are now used. There are no more Sammy and Sally Sioux. Changing the name now will not change the homecoming floats of the 1970s.

[HockeyMom]

It makes me feel a lot better that Spirit Lake knows that panel was one-sided.

[Smoggy]

dakotadan, on Sep 9 2005, 03:42 PM, said:

HockeyMom, on Sep 9 2005, 01:37 AM, said:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...59§ion=news

Majority in N.D. support ‘Fighting Sioux,’ poll shows

This just up on the Forum's site.

The majority of Native Americans in North Dakota do not oppose the nickname.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote

Marty Davis of Belcourt, N.D., a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa who attended UND in the 1970s, said she remembers homecoming parade floats with unflattering depictions of Sioux Indians.

This is one of the things that bothers me the most. The people who oppose the nickname keep bringing up things that happened in the 60s and 70s. They obviously don't understand how the name and logo are now used. There are no more Sammy and Sally Sioux. Changing the name now will not change the homecoming floats of the 1970s.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking the same thing. It's as if some people have never gotten out of their house in the last thirty years.

[HockeyMom]

On the WDAZ news clip the other night covering the one-sided panel, they were showing all of the former logos. I thought the same thing........move out of the past.

[SiouxMeNow]

btw...where's Franklin been???

[GrahamKracker]

Diggler, on Sep 9 2005, 10:18 AM, said:

redwing77, on Sep 9 2005, 10:09 AM, said:

It's a good read however, I do wish they had polled more Native Americans.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The poll sample would have been skewed had the done that. It was based on North Dakota demographics. If they would've asked more Native Americans, it would've messed up those demographics.. They would have had to ask more people overall and then you still have the same relative problem. As it is, it was a scientifically valid poll. People don't understand that you don't need to ask 6 zillion people for a poll to be very accurate. 605 is enough.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

30 NA's is a large enough poll to represent the entire population? And how did they get these 30 polls, Over the phone? the last time I checked, many Natives didn't have a phones, so that excludes half of the population. (oh yeah, and I'm back, I needed to recharge my batteries and go hang out w/ some other Lakota's for awhile)

[GrahamKracker]

PCM, on Sep 9 2005, 04:59 PM, said:

Clayton Hoyt, on Sep 9 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

Those poor kids. You can see their self-esteem eroding as you look at that picture. PCM, did you email that picture to D. Yellow Bird?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll let someone else do that.

Aniak High School must have one of the most politically incorrect logos in use anywhere. A crossed rifle and spear? A white guy and a native staring each other down? I don't even know where to begin feeling offended.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How does that make you offended? If that is what they claim to be, then so be it. At least they are truthful w/ themselves. Not like here, who's SIOUX? not you.

[PCM]

GrahamKracker, on Sep 10 2005, 08:09 AM, said:

How does that make you offended?  If that is what they claim to be, then so be it.  At least they are truthful w/ themselves.  Not like here, who's SIOUX? not you.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you ever heard of sarcasm? Do you understand the concept of humor? Do you always apply the most literal interpretation you can think of to everything you see, hear and read?

This post has been edited by PCM: 10 September 2005 - 10:11 AM

[PCM]

Sept. 10, 2005

From the Grand Forks Herald:
NCAA seeks more information on UND-Sioux issue

Quote

Lunderman would not identify the people and organizations that have provided input and she wouldn't characterize the input they've provided. She said the committee still is compiling information it's received and is seeking additional information.

Quote

Meanwhile, Spirit Lake tribal leaders have not announced their support or opposition to the nickname. Despite repeated attempts, Spirit Lake Tribal Council Chairwoman Myra Pearson could not be reached for a comment on the issue.

On Friday's WDAZ news at 6, they talked to 20 enrolled members of the Spirit Lake Tribe. Fifteen supported UND's use of the Sioux name, three opposed it and two didn't have an opinion.

[redwing77]

PCM, on Sep 10 2005, 11:29 AM, said:

Sept. 10, 2005

From the Grand Forks Herald:
NCAA seeks more information on UND-Sioux issue

Quote

Lunderman would not identify the people and organizations that have provided input and she wouldn't characterize the input they've provided. She said the committee still is compiling information it's received and is seeking additional information.

Quote

Meanwhile, Spirit Lake tribal leaders have not announced their support or opposition to the nickname. Despite repeated attempts, Spirit Lake Tribal Council Chairwoman Myra Pearson could not be reached for a comment on the issue.

On Friday's WDAZ news at 6, they talked to 20 enrolled members of the Spirit Lake Tribe. Fifteen supported UND's use of the Sioux name, three opposed it and two didn't have an opinion.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All this prolonging of the resolution! It's driving me nuts!

[Sioux-cia]

Thought I'd add a little levity to the 'name game'.

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/travel/con...ustriantown.jsp

Quote

One Town's Very Obscene Name
"We will not stand for the F---ing signs being removed. It may be very amusing for you British, but F---ing is simply F---ing to us. What is this big F---ing joke? It is puerile."
"Just this morning I had to tell an English lady who stopped by that there were no F---ing postcards."

[Mad Man]

GrahamKracker, on Sep 10 2005, 08:09 AM, said:

PCM, on Sep 9 2005, 04:59 PM, said:

Clayton Hoyt, on Sep 9 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

Those poor kids. You can see their self-esteem eroding as you look at that picture. PCM, did you email that picture to D. Yellow Bird?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll let someone else do that.

Aniak High School must have one of the most politically incorrect logos in use anywhere. A crossed rifle and spear? A white guy and a native staring each other down? I don't even know where to begin feeling offended.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How does that make you offended? If that is what they claim to be, then so be it. At least they are truthful w/ themselves. Not like here, who's SIOUX? not you.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lighten up Francis.

[fightonsioux]

Saltine,

You are saying the poll isn't legit because most American Indians don't have phones?

Unbelievable!

Then I guess no poll is legit because there are many white folk that don't have phones either.

[Goon]

fightonsioux, on Sep 10 2005, 07:06 PM, said:

Saltine,

You are saying the poll isn't legit because most American Indians don't have phones?

Unbelievable!

Then I guess no poll is legit because there are many white folk that don't have phones either.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its not legit because it wasn't done with a slant against the name. Only result those people like GK and Know the facts want is one that is against the name.
What a joke. Notice how they did one of their own polls and found different results. If that isn't dishonestly give me a break. Talk about jamming your biases down someone's throat.

[Runninwiththedogs]

Interesting article out of the Daily Illini, the student newspaper.

I thought this excerpt was especially relevant to the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, as well:

"[...]Illinois' teams are not the only ones to attach "fighting" to their nickname. Programs from South Carolina's Fighting Gamecocks to the Carroll College Fighting Saints have employed the same word, which dictionary.com says means 'to contend with physically or in battle,' or 'to wage or carry on (a battle).'"

So is the "Fighting" in the nickname meant to describe the Sioux, or to describe the athletes on the playing field battling against their opponents? In the cases listed here, it seemed that, if "fighting" was used as an adjective for the Gamecocks, it would be redundant (because all gamecocks are, inherently, going to fight, or else they would just be regular roosters), and in the case of the Saints, inaccurate (aren't many saints known for being peaceful and kind while doing God's work?). But, if "fighting" was used to describe the athletes, it would be accurate (esp. for a few of your more well-known goons... ).

Anyone ever thought of it this way?

Also, GK, do you think any college athlete today actually thinks they are what their nickname is? I mean, if Sven Svenssen from Stockholm or Ole Oleson from Oslo came to UND, do you think either suddenly think he was AI rather than Scandinavian? I don't think Evan Schwabe thinks of himself as a bulldog, I think he's aware that he is a (damn fine looking) human being. When UND and UMD meet, I'm not thinking "I hope these mean-looking canines with spiked collars and droopy jowls can bite the crap out of this tribe of Sioux." Reasonable, intelligent humans (and even unreasonable, intelligent sub-humans like Wisconsin fans) are fully cognizant the people in the uniforms are not necessarily what the nickname says. Reasonable, intelligent student-athletes (and knuckle-dragging buffoons like Robbie Earl!) know who they are, and they can differentiate between a mascot or nickname and their actual ancestry (and species). So, I don't remember where you implied this, but UND skaters are not going out onto the ice thinking they're members of your tribe. Don't try to turn this argument your own way though, because then you could also say that the Bulldogs do not have the right to the nickname (and mascot) of a bulldog because they are not bulldogs. And that's just ridiculous. Although, you know all about ridiculous...

[PCM]

WDAZ had a good story about Bennett Brien on its Sunday news at 10 p.m. It mentioned that his wife is Sioux. He is very proud of the logo and doesn't understand why anyone would be offended by it. He said that anyone who's against the logo should visit a reservation and see what the real problems are. He also said that if UND drops the Sioux name, he thinks there' be a lot of support for switching to the Fighting Chippewa.

[PCM]

Sept. 11, 2005

From the Fargo Forum:
Forum editorial: UND logo dispute no big deal?

Quote

UND has appealed the NCAA’s postseason Indian moniker ban. The basis for the appeal is not dissimilar to appeals made by three universities whose appeals were successful. It’s reasonable to assume UND will get a similar pass.

Nonetheless, the nickname/logo dispute will not fade away. Even if the majority of North Dakota’s American Indian and general populations can live with or without the Fighting Sioux logo, committed groups and individuals on both sides of the debate will continue a struggle in which they deeply believe. What most North Dakotans view as a damaging diversion from the important work of higher education will continue to make news.

[fightonsioux]

Runningwiththedogs,

I do have to admit that I think Minnesota Gopher athletes really are gophers!