27 replies to this topic

[fightingsioux4life]

Fetch, on 23 April 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

or say enough is enough - you should have included the tribes from the begining

The tribes should have spoken up earlier than they did.  Spirit Lake sat on their hands for years and Standing Rock refuses to discuss the issue or allow a vote on it.  I have a hard time feeling sorry for either tribe.

[Fetch]

They don't march to our drummer anymore (never did)

As far as SR they are just now feeling & understanding what's been going on & most likely still don't care.  But I bet the State wide vote in June will show SR (Sioux County) would have approved the name. (I know it matters not to those who are afraid of the 1st agreement) The 1st agreement was flawed & never should have been signed. & if the vote in Sioux County proves this then we stand proud & do what ever it takes to right the wrong.

SL however, although at their own pace, are now ready to fight & we should be supporting them - Only one Tribe SL should have been enough & now they are pizzed off cause no one ask before & no one ask them when the Governor went to see the ncaa. All because of the unfair & should be invalid agreement.

It is discrimination that Florida only needed one tribe & it is racist that the ncaa tells us our name was hostile & abusive when both ND & our nearest Tribe says it's not - some monopoly club thinks they know better than those who live right here. It is the ncaa that is & has been hypocritical and are now Hostile & Abusive & I pray a Judge sees how the ncaa bamboozled us in the 1st agreement & gives Spirit Lake their chance to be heard.

The SBOHE & UND Admin. and especially the AG were in to big of a hurry to get the hostile & abusive title off of their backs & were taken advantage of by the ncaa & the ones hurt & left out the most was Spirit Lake Tribe - They deserve their day in court & the old agreement should be void because of SL being left out

If the ncaa is this bullheaded & petty & shameful then to Hell with them - It won't be the people of ND harming UND it will be the ncaa when the people of ND tells the ncaa what they think of how they handled this

VOTE NO to tell the ncaa they are wrong & need to correct the injustice

If the ncaa really thinks it has done the right / noble thing why would they be afraid to void the agreement & talk to SL - because now they know they screwed the people of ND & Spirit Lake - There is no Justice in that only know it all academics & slimy Lawyers & $$$ taking advantage of people

[82SiouxGuy]

Fetch, on 23 April 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

they don't march to our drummer anymore (never did)

As far as SR they are just feeling & understanding what's been going on & most likely still don't care - SL however although at their own pace are now ready to fight & we should be supporting them - Only one Tribe SL should have been enough & now they are pizzed off cause no one ask before & no one ask them when the Governor went to see the ncaa

So we're supposed to work on their time schedule?  Contracts usually have deadlines.  The deadline wasn't met.  Do the tribes get special treatment on meeting deadlines for other contracts?  I doubt it.

As we have discussed before, more than likely the requirement of 2 tribes was the penalty that had to be paid to get 4 extra years.  Everyone else had to get tribal approval by 2006.  UND got the deadline pushed until November 30,  2010.  And the NCAA did ask them before, Spirit Lake was asked during the initial waiver period, as was Standing Rock.  Neither would support UND during that time.  And they were both asked again during the settlement period.  Spirit Lake finally responded in favor but Standing Rock continues to say no.  The meeting between the North Dakota delegation and the NCAA was on the NCAA's terms, and the only thing they wanted to do was to let the people from North Dakota know that they planned to follow the settlement.  That didn't need tribal involvement because the time period for their input was past.  The entire NCAA message was "Here's the agreement and this is what we will follow".

[Fetch]

The confusion - mismanagement  - arrogance & political BS was all handled badly - after the june vote all cards & knowledge will be on the table in a more Fair & Consistant manner - I know again you change the name folks will just keep waving the white flag & try to scare people into surrendering  - I have more Faith in the people of ND to see thru it & do the right thing - if the ncaa won't give they will forever be blamed & hated for what they did to us. & hopefully they can be sued again & again until they see they are wrong

All thru history Academics - Politicians - Judges - Lawyers - Military - Groups of people- have crammed laws & wrong deeds against the Native People - were just going to let em do it again ?

[82SiouxGuy]

Fetch, on 23 April 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

The confusion - mismanagement  - arrogance & political BS was all handled badly - after the june vote all cards & knowledge will be on the table in a more Fair & Consistant manner - I know again you change the name folks will just keep waving the white flag & try to scare people into surrendering  - I have more Faith in the people of ND to see thru it & do the right thing - if the ncaa won't give they will forever be blamed & hated for what they did to us. & hopefully they can be sued again & again until they see they are wrong

All thru history Academics - Politicians - Judges - Lawyers - Military - Groups of people- have crammed laws & wrong deeds against the Native People - were just going to let em do it again ?

You can't sue over and over again.  You have to have a specific reason to sue.  If that reason isn't accepted by the courts the lawsuit is dismissed.  If you continue to sue without good LEGAL reasons you can be fined and held in contempt of court.  The courts get tired of people wasting their time.  Spirit Lake has thrown everything they can into this lawsuit, there isn't anything else they could sue about.  And UND and the state of North Dakota can't sue about the issue any more unless the NCAA does something that is against the settlement.  There shouldn't be any more lawsuits about the nickname after the Spirit Lake lawsuit is decided.

Doing the right thing is doing what is right for UND.  In this case, at this time in history, the right thing to do is retire the nickname.  It has served UND well, but it is time to move on.  I hope that the people of North Dakota can understand that when they learn more of the facts instead of the lies and half-truths that have been sold by S.A.B and the nickname-at-all-cost crowd.

[dmksioux]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know what happened with the Bradley Braves?  In 2005, they were removed from the "hostile and abusive" list but were place on a 5 year "watch" list due to their "Braves" nickname.  I searched briefly on the internet but haven't really found anything.  There was this article from 2010 talking a bit about their situation.

http://thesouthern.c...1cc4c03286.html

Quote

Bradley hasn't had an official mascot in almost 20 years. The school, though, calls its teams the Braves, which landed it in 2006 on a list of schools the NCAA is watching for what it calls ``hostile and abusive'' use of American Indian imagery. The NCAA is expected to reconsider that decision next year.

Read more: http://thesouthern.c...l#ixzz1suAJYQVJ

  

[darell1976]

dmksioux, on 23 April 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know what happened with the Bradley Braves?  In 2005, they were removed from the "hostile and abusive" list but were place on a 5 year "watch" list due to their "Braves" nickname.  I searched briefly on the internet but haven't really found anything.  There was this article from 2010 talking a bit about their situation.

http://thesouthern.c...1cc4c03286.html

Since the term Braves could mean either Native American or just a person being brave with no feathers or Indian mascot then the NCAA will allow them that. Just like we could be the Warriors like Golden State of the NBA but not have a NA logo or mascot as warrior has different meanings.

[dmksioux]

darell1976, on 23 April 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

Since the term Braves could mean either Native American or just a person being brave with no feathers or Indian mascot then the NCAA will allow them that. Just like we could be the Warriors like Golden State of the NBA but not have a NA logo or mascot as warrior has different meanings.

I did find this article which basically states that they will not use any Native American Imagery.

http://www.bradleybr...0&ATCLID=271847

I guess that the watch period must have ended after 5 years and that was that.   I just figured there would have been some sort of announcement from the ncaa making it official.  I did find this kind of entertaining though...

Quote

  “Bradley University has used the Braves name since 1937 and we are pleased that the many generations of Bradley athletes to come will continue to bear that name, representative of the pride and tradition of our University,” said Bradley University President Dr. David Broski.  “The University will continue to encourage in our student body the qualities of honor, courage, tenacity, loyalty, and endurance associated with the Braves name. Additionally, the University will continue its commitment to encourage our students to learn about and respect Native American peoples and traditions.  Bradley does not now and will not in the future use Native American depictions in its logo.”
  

In a quick google search of Native American studies or Indian studies, you will find UND has an Indian Studies Program (geared towards Native Americans).  Meanwhile, Bradley has an Indian Student Association (geared toward people from India).  All I could find was a couple of classes on Native American literature being offered by Bradley.