The Sicatoka Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 The USHL Fargo-Moorhead Bears (folded) The USHL Fargo-Moorhead IceSharks (now the Chicago Steel) Take a look at the America West Hockey League home page. Note the list of teams on the left side of the AWHL homepage. The Fargo-Moorhead AWHL franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Do you have any records on what Grand Forks has done with Minor League or Junior Teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 7, 2003 Author Share Posted April 7, 2003 My point isn't a "Oh yeah!"-fest. (And I don't know if you'd count the GF ChannelCats as "minor league" because it was NorthWoods League ball where the players were all collegians who retained amateur status because they weren't paid.) My point: I'm surprised the (not overly fiscally stable) AWHL would be going into a city where the (more stable) USHL has not been able to succeed. The AWHL has tended to pick cities where they don't have to go head-to-head with other established fan bases. (Bismarck, Billings, Great Falls, Fernie, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Fargo probably is not the place to go for hockey fans. The UND fans that live in Fargo have a short drive up I-29 for games. I would think Grand Forks would have a better chance with a team, even with UND in town. From my point of view there are more hockey fans in Grand Forks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Sicatoka is exactly right, but BisonMav has no clue what he/she is talking about. Fargo-Moorhead has many, many more kids playing hockey than in Grand Forks. The Flyers and Raiders have 15 teams playing Squirt-Bantam, West Fargo has at least 3 teams at each level, Moorhead has at least 3 teams at each level, and the Patriots have at least 3 teams at each level. Additionally, approximately 1/3 of the Sioux hockey season ticket holders are from outside of Grand Forks, the vast majority from Fargo-Moorhead. Fargo-Moorhead is a great hockey town in terms of numbers and interest, it just gets no public support. As a result, Fargo has the worst rinks in the State. Moorhead, however, has 4 sheets of ice and is one of the best hockey towns in all of Minnesota. Junior hockey has not done well in Fargo because the facilities are poor, because Sioux hockey and youth hockey occupy many fans/parents weekends, and there are many things competing for the Saturday night dollar, including Concordia, NDSU, MSU and high school sporting events. Please go back to your Bison football board where you can say meaningless things and no one will recognize it. Grand Forks would have the same problem, and junior hockey would not fare well in Grand Forks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 skateshattrick you are trying to put words into my mouth. Hockey participation does not equal hockey fans, aka soccer in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Then what was your point? Fargo has the fans, and the implication of your message was that Fargo (where I live) is not a hockey town. If that is your point, you are wrong. I grew up in Grand Forks, and Fargo is a very good hockey town. Moorhead is even better, on par with Grand Forks. There are many more people in Fargo-Moorhead. If this town had the facilities and a winner, people would come out to support any hockey team. NDSU was never smart enough to figure that out, and it is now too late because they did not move like St. Cloud, Omaha and Mankato. Nobody thought that Omaha was a hockey town either, but the Lancers sold out and now Nebraska-Omaha is one of the leading schools in hockey attendance. Omaha also was in the black more than $1million after its 1st year, allowing it to support its other fledgling programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 The perception I have from living in Fargo and Grand Forks, is that Grand Forks seems to have more fans that are willing to watch hockey at all levels. Not just their kids games. Now living in the Twin Cities, Grand Forks more resembles the Minnesota hockey attitude than Fargo as a whole. Grand Forks goes back to Fido Purpur, first ND, NHL player. Fargo and Moorhead are very good hockey towns. Moorhead again is more like Grand Forks. Moorheads HS following is great. They always have a large following show up at the state tourney. Omaha's success did not surprise me. Yes I lived there also, and was a Lancer Season Ticket holder. Tougher ticket than the Cornhuskers at the time. The oldtimers that you meet around town would talk about the Omaha Knights (1939-1970s). Gordie Howe, Marcel Pronovost, Terry Sawchuk all played there. So Omaha did have some Hockey history. In Fargo the talk is more baseball, Roger Maris, Frank Gravino, etc, or Bison Football. I am not an expert, just the perception I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 I'm from Fargo and now go to UND. I could live in Fargo for the rest of my life, but I could never live in Grand Forks. Grand Forks, however, is a much bigger hockey town. Fargo is going to have a tough time trying to start all D 1 sports, especially hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighting Sioux Fan Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Do you have any records on what Grand Forks has done with Minor League or Junior Teams? Why do we need a Minor/Junior team in Grand Forks when we have a D1 college program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxrock Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 we also got the better arena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 BisonMav, I agree with your perception. I apologize for jumping on you early, but I misinterpreted your post as another anti-hockey post with the message that Fargo is not a hockey town, it is a football town. I will say that IF Fargo had the facilities, it would not only survive, but do well. The Redhawk baseball team built its own stadium and excelled. They would not have excelled if they had played at the Fargo legion complex. Grand Forks made that mistake, and minor league baseball failed. If Grand Forks had hooked up with the old Northern League (it used to be years ago and Willie Stargell played there) and built a stadium, it would have probably worked. Fargo, unfortunately, does not have the facilities and has difficulty getting public or private money for any sports facilities right now, not just hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxrock Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 it doesnt have the facilities and the fans i bet GF would draw well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 If it was done correctly.. meaning cheap tickets, smart scheds (no games that go up against UND games) and most importantly good hockey. It may work. We have the facility, (The Ralph) and I would really think that a good junior program would go well in Grand Forks, and I would be a great Fighting Sioux farm team!!!! I would go see Junior Hockey if it were in Grand Forks. Imagine a player coming to Grand Forks to play Juniors in the Ralph... Would he ever want to play anywhere else? I think not ((I can't believe I just agreed with Siouxrock)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Holy Cow, talk about a spread out league, Phoenix, Fairbanks, Texas wow... The players will get some frequent flyer miles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Fargo has never really been a hockey town. Hockey is bigger in Moorhead due to the relative success of the HS program and more neighborhood involvement. The lack of a college program at 'SU probably has something to do with it. However, there really aren't/weren't the facilities and/or leagues at the local level that you see in GF or even small-town Minnesota. I don't see an AWHL team doing any better than the USHL clubs, or 'SU's club teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 The AWHL also has try-out dates for the Fargo team in St. Louis Park, Blaine, and Moorhead. Looks like this team will be a go. The Central Texas Blackhawks also are having a tryout in Grand Forks at Eagles Arena, Siouxrock should check it out and go for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 17, 2003 Author Share Posted April 17, 2003 Apparently the AWHL isn't expanding but is relocating a franchise. The Great Falls Americans are moving to Fargo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgraham Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Just a note on UND hockey fan's from the Fargo area. I was born and raised in Grand Forks and now live in Wahpeton. My brother has Sioux hockey season tickets, but because he lives in Portland Oregon, guess who gets the majority of the tickets. I know this is making a short story long but when we head home on I-29, after a game at the Ralph, the traffic between Grand Forks and Fargo is unbelievable! It's more like the traffic volume you would see on Thanksgiving or the 4th of July. Judging from that traffic volume, and that's not counting the Fargo fans that stay in Grand Forks for the weekend, the 1/3 estimate might be a little conservative. DG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Both Grand Forks and Fargo are great hockey towns. But Grand Forks is clearly a leader by a wide margin in my estimation. Red River and Central can and do compete on a regular basis with Warroad and Roseau. Grand Forks benefitted from years of having ice when nobody else did, even the northern Minnesota teams. Moorhead actually patterned its peewee's, squirts and bantam after the Grand Forks program after they started to get more ice. I really think though that Grand Forks and North Dakota in general are turning out better quality D-1 prospects due to the increased ice sheets going up. I looked on the Lincoln Stars website the other day and they have 8 kids from North Dakota on that team. No wonder they are so damn good. Although it might have something to do with Steve Johnson being thier coach. Either you look at it a person has to agree that the more sheets go up the better the hockey D-1 prospects within the state of North Dakota. And then the Sioux will not have to go as far to get great players to bring home number 8! GO SIOUX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Sioux 7--where did you get your information that Moorhead patterned its program after Grand Forks? I have been saying for a long time that Grand Forks combined is as good as Moorhead, but the systems are not at all similar. Moorhead's program was started by Terry Shercliffe, who brought in Terry Cullen from International Falls. Moorhead's teams play the same style of position, support and passing, whether it is a Squirt Orange (B2) or a Bantam A. The only difference is the skill level, but the system remains the same. Moorhead also has only 1 youth program, which is privately run by the Moorhead Youth Hockey Association (MYHA). They have dryland and Blue Line camps for all of the kids in one system. By contrast, Grand Forks has a blend of private and public. The dominant teams at Mites, Squirts and 1st year PeeWee are the Supras and Blues, private organizations. When they get to 2nd year PeeWee (primarily PeeWee A), it goes back to the park board, where they play for the Wheatkings or Sugarkings at A level, or the Spartans, Jets, etc. at B level. There are also private teams like the Blackhawks that played Bantam A. The systems, however, are not similar. You may find one Grand Forks team that plays passing and position, another that plays dump-and-chase. Although the skill levels are good, they do not have 1 system like Moorhead and it is not privately run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I should correct myself. Back then they took a look at Grand Forks and said these guys are so good because they have had more sheets of ice. So that 's when Moorhead started to make a real commitment to youth hockey and it has paid off. But you are right, they did not pattern themselves after their style of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I think Sioux 7 is absolutely correct that the success of the programs has to do with facilities and ice sheets. Fargo has poor facilities, even though the talent is good. The Fargo Flyers beat Moorhead at Squirt A, Pee Wee A and Bantam A earlier in the year, but lost later in the year at Pee Wee and Bantam, albeit close games. A lot of that has to do with the fact that Moorhead has more ice sheets and the Bantams get on the ice every day for 1 and 1/2 hours, as opposed to Fargo where they get 1 and 3/4 hours per week practice time for each team. The other factor is competition--Moorhead plays Minneapolis competition regularly. It is a myth that Fargo is not a good hockey town--success is tied to facilities and competition. Fargo has the interest and talent, just not enough ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I am from Bismarck and the Bobcats of the AWHL have been pretty successful there. I don't know if this has anything to with with it, but the AWHL isn't nearly at the talent level of the USHL. Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't that make a franchise more likely to survive in a city like Fargo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarce Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 If you build it they will come. D-1 never. Juniors has the best marketing potential for the area. If you want a perfect example look at the the USHL team in Sioux Falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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