UND92,96 Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 I apologize if this doesn't necessarily exactly fit into the I-AA discussion, but does anyone know approximately what UND's athletic budget was this past year? I was trying to figure out the total ticket revenue from 2002-03 as a preliminary matter, but it's nearly impossible to know how much UND actually gets from ticket sales due to the arrangement with the Alerus Center for football. I'm also not entirely clear on how the situation with REA works. In any event, the total attendance for football, mens hockey, and basketball (mens games plus womens bball games not part of a doubleheader) was 368,884. Of course, some of those attendees were students who either don't pay or pay a reduced price, but I figure that the student fees which go to the athletic department more than make up for that. I'm thinking the ticket revenue/student fees must be at least in the $4 million to $5 million range, and possibly more. Concessions have to be factored in, as well as the funds raised by the Fighting Sioux Club (at least those above and beyond the ticket prices). It would seem that there's got to be a lot of money there. It's tough to compare apples and oranges, but as an example, Montana's total attendance for their three sports which draw more than a nominal number of fans in 2002-03 was 258,926. And it appears that that was the largest total athletic department number amongst all schools playing I-AA football (by a lot). To the extent I have a point here, it's that UND probably sells more tickets as an athletic department than any non-IA football school in all of college athletics. That's quite an accomplishment in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxrock Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 how many tickets does UND sell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 $6-7 million, I believe. I will find out! We need to remember that a large portion of the U of Montana's athletic funding comes from their State legislature. That does not and will not happen in North Dakota! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 $6-7 million, I believe. I will find out! We need to remember that a large portion of the U of Montana's athletic funding comes from their State legislature. That does not and will not happen in North Dakota! You are correct, and also I imagine that the football and basketball ticket prices are higher in Montana so their budget is probably fairly large. But I do think we have to be pretty proud of the fan support at UND. 368,884 is a lot of people for a single year's attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 I fully agree that we should be proud of our fan support. We do, however, need to add a thousand or so to both the men's and ladies' average attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 I fully agree that we should be proud of our fan support. We do, however, need to add a thousand or so to both the men's and ladies' average attendance. If we could get b-ball attendance to just 40% of hockey attendance, it would be in the 4,000 to 4,500 range. Not an easy goal, but it could be doable, particularly in a facility better than Hyslop and if the teams are doing fairly well. I know that there are a lot of UND hockey fans out there who don't care at all about basketball, but for those who are willing to give it a chance, I don't think they'll be disappointed in the entertainment value. Unfortunately, the opportunity to see a Jerome Beasley-type talent perform will likely never happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxrock Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 i wish ralph could donate another 100 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsioux Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 If fans didn't come out to see the Beas', I don't know how the crowds will ever come. The women have already reached their peak attendance over the years I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxrock Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 i think attendace wil be down a thousand cuz the beas and bradt left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 If fans didn't come out to see the Beas', I don't know how the crowds will ever come. The women have already reached their peak attendance over the years I would think. You may be correct, but I think there are two things that will bring people out to the tune of 4,000-plus per game: a nice facility or a great team (preferably both). Obviously, the condition and age of Hyslop is a problem, and one way or another a decision needs to be made soon as to the future home of the basketball teams. As we can all probably agree on, the mens team hasn't been great since the early 90's, but the attendance has been at least O.K. even during the poorer years. Hopefully, the NCC will get back to the old Friday-Saturday games again this year now that there will at least temporarily be an even number of teams. Thursday games aren't typically good for attendance as it severely cuts down on the number of out-of-towners who can go. I'm an eternal optimist when it comes to UND sports, so I'm not going to give up on the idea that we can get back to the level of the early 90's. The NCAA site only has attendance numbers going back 10 years, but according to that site, UND averaged just over 4,200 in 1993, and that was down more than 700 per game from 1992. So it can be done, but we need to get back to something approaching that level of success, and hopefully get a nice arena, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsioux Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 First, siouxrock, attendance didn't go up for the Beas, so why would it go down? People didn't come out to see him like they should of have. And I don't think Brandt brought in the crowd with his poor shot selection from 24 feet and 39 % FG shooting. I have heard that the NCC fully intends to back to Fri-Sat games, so that will help. I just wonder how good a team it would take to bring the fans back though. This area is VERY spoiled with the success of UND recently and NDSU before that in all the major spectatoer sports. It seems that being a playoff qualifier isn't enough to get excited about anymore. The bar has been set very high and will take some time to come down. I was surprised how few people came out to see the Beas. If UND does get a new BB venue, I hope their is some atmosphere like at SDSU. Even the new Mankato arena is stale. The new Ralph is horrible for BB, the noise just disappears to the second level. The players said it was quiet, even during the NDSU game with 8500 there. It would have to be that full and actually get those fans off their ass, which will never happen. Students just don't care about BB here. Too many of the fans are older, quieter ones. Hopefully someting can be done at the Hyslop or the old Ralph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 I just wonder how good a team it would take to bring the fans back though. This area is VERY spoiled with the success of UND recently and NDSU before that in all the major spectatoer sports. It seems that being a playoff qualifier isn't enough to get excited about anymore. The bar has been set very high and will take some time to come down. I was surprised how few people came out to see the Beas. If UND does get a new BB venue, I hope their is some atmosphere like at SDSU. Even the new Mankato arena is stale. The new Ralph is horrible for BB, the noise just disappears to the second level. The players said it was quiet, even during the NDSU game with 8500 there. It would have to be that full and actually get those fans off their ass, which will never happen. Students just don't care about BB here. Too many of the fans are older, quieter ones. Hopefully someting can be done at the Hyslop or the old Ralph. You are correct in that this area has been spoiled to at least a degree by success. What surprises me is how few students go to basketball games when you consider that the majority of them are probably from high schools where basketball is king (i.e. ND Class B). There has got to be a way to get them interested enough to go to basketball games, particularly when it's free. Regarding Engelstad for basketball, it is too big. But it would have been interesting to see what the atmosphere would have been like at the NDSU game had the game actually been well-played instead of the poor shooting foul-fest it was. That was the worst-played game of the entire home schedule, and it happened at the worst possible time considering the big crowd and the TV audience. It certainly didn't make any casual fans want to go to another game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsioux Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 But they were both down to the wire against out biggest rival, I had hoped it would of been louder than that. This is why I doubt that it could be solid venue for BB. You are also correct about the students and their background of BB, but here hockey is king. It is the social place to be, just the like with the adults...which is too bad. Like I said before, if people didn't come to see the Beas, what do they want. He was hyped as a potential NBA 1st rounder all year, what more do they want to see. It would have been interesting if Allen hadn't gotten screwed over. I speculate that the community/team lost some hype after that incident. It sure seemed that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Does basketball attendance correlate to hockey attendance in any way? It was stated that BB attendance was at a high in '92 or '93, how was hockey attendance then? If hockey attendance or interest is down, does BB rise to offset it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsioux Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 It doesn't really seem to correlate. Even though the hockey team wasn't too great during that time. With the students BB just doesn't draw well the past 10 or so years. The hockey teams have been good and bad during that time. Hockey has become such a monster as the social thing to do. Even with the success of the women and attractions such as Beasley, the BB teams just don't have that much interest with students. I don't think that even if the hockey program starts to slide that we will see that much interest move to BB. There seems to be a few hundred student fans and that is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 Does basketball attendance correlate to hockey attendance in any way? It was stated that BB attendance was at a high in '92 or '93, how was hockey attendance then? If hockey attendance or interest is down, does BB rise to offset it? It's an interesting question, but I don't really know the answer. The hockey program was certainly not at its highest point during the glory years of the basketball program, so there may have been some fans who basically chose basketball over hockey to an extent. But things are so much different now with the new arena and the fact that excitement about Sioux hockey has been extremely high during the Blais era, and in particular since 1997. I don't foresee a dip in interest in Sioux hockey anytime soon, so basketball probably needs to create its own excitement to get the fans back into the 4,000-plus per game range where it was 10 years ago. I think that if the mens basketball program would win a bit more consistently and cut out the ridiculous early season losses to schools like Minot, Bemidji and UMC that have occurred in recent years, the fans would come out again in larger numbers. But a new facility is almost a must at this point. People's tolerance for the lack of comfort of Hyslop seating went way down when the Alerus and Engelstad were built. Wood bench seats just don't cut it anymore. Hyslop certainly served its purpose, but its time has come and gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 UND's current athletic budget is $5.8 million ($1.8 million of which is for hockey) per year; the average for Division I-AA schools is $4.7 million; the average for the nearest D-IAA conference, the Big Sky, is $6.2 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 I guess I'm going to resurrect a very old thread here. The new numbers for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2007 have been posted on the OPE site, and UND reported revenues of $11,414,689, and expenses of $11,250,249. You can find all the details here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I guess I'm going to resurrect a very old thread here. The new numbers for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2007 have been posted on the OPE site, and UND reported revenues of $11,414,689, and expenses of $11,250,249. You can find all the details here. Cue the armchair forensic accountants to the south in 3...2...1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Cue the armchair forensic accountants to the south in 3...2...1... No in-depth analysis here, I just wish someone would explain to UND what an undergraduate is. This is at least the second year they've submitted the wrong enrollment number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 No in-depth analysis here, I just wish someone would explain to UND what an undergraduate is. This is at least the second year they've submitted the wrong enrollment number. We know different organizations count in different ways. What are the US DOE standards? Is NDSU allowed to count "tri-college" students? Is UND forced to count part-time UND Distance Education students? Part-time students (<12 credits)? I do see that NDSU has budgeted perfectly again: Expenses = Receipts. That's what, three years in a row? Amazing budgetary skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMD Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I was checking out our sisters to the south... University of South Dakota Enrollment : 4,352 Expenses : $5,800,978 Revenues : $5,800,978 South Dakota State University Enrollement : 7,878 Expenses : $8,176,821 Revenues : $8,176,821 First...I have always assumed that USD was bigger. Second...apparently "perfect budgeting" is widely practiced. And just for fun... University of Montana Enrollment : 9,716 Expenses : $13,946,380 Revenues : $16,449,636 THE Ohio State University Enrollment : 33,817 Expenses : $101,804,852 Revenues : $104,704,852 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 We know different organizations count in different ways. What are the US DOE standards? Is NDSU allowed to count "tri-college" students? Is UND forced to count part-time UND Distance Education students? Part-time students (<12 credits)? What are "tri-college" students? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 What are "tri-college" students? MSU-Moorhead/NDSU/Concordia students that take coursework at more than one school. A student at MSU-Moorhead, for instance, can take courses at NDSU or Concordia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 MSU-Moorhead/NDSU/Concordia students that take coursework at more than one school. A student at MSU-Moorhead, for instance, can take courses at NDSU or Concordia. It also allows some of the universities to offer additional programs. My wife, for example, has a degree in Nursing from Concordia even though all of her nursing coursework was at NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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