UND v GVSU

[Oxbow6]

Duing last Wednesday's Fighting Sioux Coaches' Show, Lennon provided a very logical and reasonable explanation as to why Chappell was still in the game in the second half. If I remember correctly, the score was 20-2 the last time Chappell ran the ball and helped set up Dressler's TD run to make it 27-2. Up until that point, UND had dodged a couple bullets that could have let the Warriors back into the game. Getting another TD on the board to put the game out of reach was important.

All it would have taken was one big play, a two-point conversion and suddenly it's a 20-10 game with lots of time left and Winona having the momentum. And all the armchair quarterbacks would have been criticizing Lennon for not playing Chappell when he was still capable of running the ball, which he proved he was up until the last time he ran.

Fine, so Lennon has a "logical" explanation, but then where was any preparedness as to how UND was going to run the ball against GVSU?? Chappell, Brady and Murray are all dinged up coming into the GVSU game. None of those 3 can go and we don't see Battle, who they felt comfortable giving the ball to 18 times vs WSU?? There seemed no game plan for what if...as far as a running game yesterday?? So if all of you want to question those who think playing Chappell was a bad idea in the 2nd half of the WSU game, where is your "logical" explanation as to why we looked like Winona trying to run the ball yesterday?? And I don't want to hear GVSU had a big lead and we had had to throw because we were only down 14 at half and the game wasn't under control by GVSU (as that logic was presented by some with UND up 20-2 at half vs. WSU). In playoff FB, especially outdoors this time of year, if you can't run or stop the run, your season is over and that's what happened.

[BringDeanBack]

Good points Big Game. Murray was hurt, Brady wasn't even dressed, 4th stringer was a scout team guy. Dale even said at halftime that he did not feel like he had the game in control. So how can you blame DL for playing his star? Last year in the playoffs against Winona, Dale pulled Chappell early in the 3rd quarter after he rattled off his 5th TD when the score was 35-0 and the game was in control. Nobody complained then. Pretty similar times of the game. This topic is going nowhere. Since I am a Sioux Hockey fan too, maybe I should go to the hockey threads and start giving my opinions on hockey, which I know nothing about. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, right?

Was Chappel banged up last year in the playoff game? That is the whole point. A healthyt Chappel should have been in the game at that point. However, anyone that watched the game, could tell that Chappel was hurt even though his performance was still good.

[BringDeanBack]

Duing last Wednesday's Fighting Sioux Coaches' Show, Lennon provided a very logical and reasonable explanation as to why Chappell was still in the game in the second half. If I remember correctly, the score was 20-2 the last time Chappell ran the ball and helped set up Dressler's TD run to make it 27-2. Up until that point, UND had dodged a couple bullets that could have let the Warriors back into the game. Getting another TD on the board to put the game out of reach was important.

All it would have taken was one big play, a two-point conversion and suddenly it's a 20-10 game with lots of time left and Winona having the momentum. And all the armchair quarterbacks would have been criticizing Lennon for not playing Chappell when he was still capable of running the ball, which he proved he was up until the last time he ran.

The people that can't admit that Lennon dropped the ball on this one are the same people that will never admit that Lennon (or any Sioux coach) ever make mistakes. Anyone that watched the Winona game could see that Chappel was hurt and limping off the field after plays (before the final limp off). Also, anyone that watched the game would know that UND was never in any real trouble in that game. Yes, if the Sioux would have thrown and interception for a TD, then had Winona recovered an onside kick, then if Aliens had landed at midfield and abducted Freund, Alexander, and Dressler, the Sioux might have been in trouble. I do understand being hesitant at putting a scout team guy in the backfield in a playoff game, regardless of the score. In that scenario, why couldn't Dressler have finished the game in the backfield? Of course Dressler is not big enough to take that kind of pounding on a game by game basis. However, I think Dressler could have handled a quarter and a half in the backfield. UND could have rested Chappel, while having a Harlon Hill candidate that they could trust in the backfield.

[sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS]

Fine, so Lennon has a "logical" explanation, but then where was any preparedness as to how UND was going to run the ball against GVSU?? Chappell, Brady and Murray are all dinged up coming into the GVSU game. None of those 3 can go and we don't see Battle, who they felt comfortable giving the ball to 18 times vs WSU?? There seemed no game plan for what if...as far as a running game yesterday?? So if all of you want to question those who think playing Chappell was a bad idea in the 2nd half of the WSU game, where is your "logical" explanation as to why we looked like Winona trying to run the ball yesterday?? And I don't want to hear GVSU had a big lead and we had had to throw because we were only down 14 at half and the game wasn't under control by GVSU (as that logic was presented by some with UND up 20-2 at half vs. WSU). In playoff FB, especially outdoors this time of year, if you can't run or stop the run, your season is over and that's what happened.

Oxbow, you want to compare mop-up duty against Winona to running the ball from behind against GVSU on the road? In related news, I shot 4 under par at King's Walk this summer. I wonder if I could do that at Augusta as well.

BringDeanBack, I shouldn't be surprised by your opinion based on your screen name.

We agree to disagree I guess.

[The Sicatoka]

... but then where was any preparedness as to how UND was going to run the ball against GVSU??

Chappell got hurt in a 20-2 game that should've been 20-9 if Winona had finished right before the half and should've been 20-16 if not for the pick by Drake Otto. Winona was in that game until Dressler made it 27-2. (How quickly they forget Winona coming back 21 points a few years ago.)

There was no "against GVSU" until Winona was defeated.

You play the game you're in, not the (assumed) next one.

[BigGame]

So he was supposed to just turn over the game to the 4th string RB at halftime, a guy who gets almost zero reps in practice. I don't really think that is the way to handle things, specifically in a playoff game. If you go by that reasoning (because all the starters are important) all the #1's should have been out of the game at the half and then just hope you don't have to put everyone back in during the 4th quarter. I am sure Chappel would have been out of the game at that point if Murry and Brady were not already injured. It's football, people get hurt!

I don't think it was dumb, you have to take care of one game at a time. Could he have done things differently... sure but if he did maybe WSU gets some momentum because the offense sputters and we don't even make it to play GV.

I was replying to what was said in relation to 30 points, we were not up 30 points at half and the game was still in doubt. You may not believe it but in the right circumstances WSU could have made comeback. I know if I am the head coach and the game is in doubt at all, I would have looked at the 4th string guy who hasn't been allowed to do crap all year and got next to nothing as far as reps. That alone is going to shrink the playbook. Putting a 4th string freshman RB in a playoff game would make me more than a little nervous. I would guess they asked Chappel if he was OK to go and he said yes, the trainers approved it and they went with it.

What if the injury to Ryan was just a slight aggrivation of the what happened in the first half. That seems very likely to me and if that is the case, he would have still been in bad shape for the game with GV. I know from personal experience that you can get injured in the game but if you keep it warm and don't let it stiffen up it can be dealt with for a while (sprains and strains). After you let it cool down though you are pretty much screwed if you try to do anything with it. I promise you that the UND coaches just didn't say "screw it" let's just leave him in for the hell of it. Fans don't know all the things that a coach is taking into consideration when he makes a decision. The coach make an informed decision on the spot while we second guess after the fact without all the information available to us.

What bothers me most about this is how many people bitch and bitch like the really know every detail of the situation. This is exactly how parents who don't know jack !@$! about whats going on with a sport start talking in their kids ear like they have a clue and end up undermining the coach and screwing everyone in the program. Athletic teams all over the country get ruined by these types of people that are to stupid to realize that if the athletes aren't commited to the team and the system they will not be successful.

[BigGame]

The people that can't admit that Lennon dropped the ball on this one are the same people that will never admit that Lennon (or any Sioux coach) ever make mistakes. Anyone that watched the Winona game could see that Chappel was hurt and limping off the field after plays (before the final limp off). Also, anyone that watched the game would know that UND was never in any real trouble in that game. Yes, if the Sioux would have thrown and interception for a TD, then had Winona recovered an onside kick, then if Aliens had landed at midfield and abducted Freund, Alexander, and Dressler, the Sioux might have been in trouble. I do understand being hesitant at putting a scout team guy in the backfield in a playoff game, regardless of the score. In that scenario, why couldn't Dressler have finished the game in the backfield? Of course Dressler is not big enough to take that kind of pounding on a game by game basis. However, I think Dressler could have handled a quarter and a half in the backfield. UND could have rested Chappel, while having a Harlon Hill candidate that they could trust in the backfield.

UND coaches screw up all the time, just like a coach anywhere else. I just think you are being very short sited in your assessment of the situation. The coaches are taking a lot more into consideration when they decide these things.

It's like the call a few years back when UND made a big comeback in a football game and Lennon goes for 2 and the win instead of kicking and going to overtime. It turned out to be a brilliant choice, but it UND doesn't get the 2 and the Sioux lose DL is being called an idiot by every UND fan. It's a very fine line with a lot of decisions in coaching and no matter how good the coach is, they don't always work out for the best.

[PCM]

The people that can't admit that Lennon dropped the ball on this one are the same people that will never admit that Lennon (or any Sioux coach) ever make mistakes.

I'm not going to admit anything because I dont' think Lennon made a mistake. Everyone who thinks he did is relying on the 20/20 hindsight of "if we only knew then what we know now." They are entitled to their opinions, of course. However, if I put myself in Lennon's shoes in the third quarter and it's still anyone's game, I continue to run Chappell until he can't run any more or the game's out of reach. If WSU comes back for the win, saving Chappell for GVSU would have been a complete waste. And that would have been a real mistake.

[BigGame]

I'm not going to admit anything because I dont' think Lennon made a mistake. Everyone who thinks he did is relying on the 20/20 hindsight of "if we only knew then what we know now." They are entitled to their opinions, of course. However, if I put myself in Lennon's shoes in the third quarter and it's still anyone's game, I continue to run Chappell until he can't run any more or the game's out of reach. If WSU comes back for the win, saving Chappell for GVSU would have been a complete waste. And that would have been a real mistake.

The sad thing is that if it was any team other than Winona State, most of these people wouldn't be talking like this. Say we draw an unknown opponent and get Ashland in the first round, 18 points wound not have been comfortable enough to even consider removing Chappel, but because a lot of Sioux fans don't respect WSU they consider the game over when we are up 18 at halftime.

[Oxbow6]

Oxbow, you want to compare mop-up duty against Winona to running the ball from behind against GVSU on the road? In related news, I shot 4 under par at King's Walk this summer. I wonder if I could do that at Augusta as well.

BringDeanBack, I shouldn't be surprised by your opinion based on your screen name.

We agree to disagree I guess.

So now it's mop up duty? Can some one please tell me when mop up duty starts?? Having been at the WSU game, I think that should have been at the beginning of the second half. There seems to be obviously to camps in this disagreement. So be it. The bottom line is and was an unhealthy Chappell meant we had a slim chance to win vs. GVSU. But with Battle's performance, you think giving him the ball vs. GVSU was an option?? Whatever everyone's thoughts might be about the WSU game are, we went to GVSU vastly undermanned. If some feel ok with that after watching Chappell limp to the locker room at half vs. WSU and then watch him on crutches on the way to the locker room after that game, then we did what we needed to do to give ourselves a shot vs. GVSU.

Bully for you on your -4 at KW. We like to say at Oxbow, "The sun shines on some poor dog's a** at some point!"--because more than likely you followed that up with a 93!!

[bincitysioux]

I've never questioned the decision to continue to play Chappel against Winona. I've questioned the decision to totally abandon the running game against GV half-way through the first quarter.

I guess I've said my peace on this subject now. It's 9:00 now so I'm going to now go stupidly bitch to my children like I know every little detail about everything in an attempt to undermine their future coaches and let them know that there is no I in team but there is an M and an E.

[Stromer]

I'm not going to admit anything because I dont' think Lennon made a mistake. Everyone who thinks he did is relying on the 20/20 hindsight of "if we only knew then what we know now." They are entitled to their opinions, of course. However, if I put myself in Lennon's shoes in the third quarter and it's still anyone's game, I continue to run Chappell until he can't run any more or the game's out of reach. If WSU comes back for the win, saving Chappell for GVSU would have been a complete waste. And that would have been a real mistake.

I have to disagree with you on this. While I don't think the coaches should get blamed, questioning the Winona decision is acceptable. I didn't want to play Chappell at all in the Winona game unless we got in trouble because I didn't want to see him get hurt. The bottom line is that there are sometimes that you need to look at things game by game (like the regular season) but sometimes you have to look at the big picture. Does it really matter if we lose to Winona by risking not playing Chappell? While it might look embarrassing, the end result is the same. I will concede the point that we at least had a chance to beat GV by playing him in the Winona game, but I still think we could have beat them without him. Of course this would be a moot point if we would have capitalized on our chances yesterday and in the UNO game.

[PCM]

I will concede the point that we at least had a chance to beat GV by playing him in the Winona game, but I still think we could have beat them without him.

That is a statement you can confidently make using 20/20 hindsight. As I said in a previous post, using that same hindsight I could argue that Chappell was banged up at USD and shouldn't have played at all against Winona. I can then claim to be even more of a coaching genius because I would have given him a week off to recuperate before GVSU.

[Stromer]

That is a statement you can confidently make using 20/20 hindsight. As I said in a previous post, using that same hindsight I could argue that Chappell was banged up at USD and shouldn't have played at all against Winona. I can then claim to be even more of a coaching genius because I would have given him a week off to recuperate before GVSU.

True and thats exactly what I wanted to do. It would have been something to consider.

[BigGame]

True and thats exactly what I wanted to do. It would have been something to consider.

Yes, and then what do you do when your only other realistic option at RB (Murry) gets hurt right away against WSU? Do you then bring Chappel in off the bench when Murry gets hurt because the staff obviously wasn't comfortble putting Battle in the game for a lot of carries.

Chappel was already hurt and would not have been full speed for the GV game anyway, but you still have to play the guy you think best gives you the chance to win.

What happened to Freund during the game anyway?

[The Sicatoka]

What happened to Freund during the game anyway?

The sling protecting the non-throwing shoulder is what some of us call a clue. :D

[sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS]

"YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!.........HELLO!?!?!?!"

[sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS]

So now it's mop up duty? Can some one please tell me when mop up duty starts?? Having been at the WSU game, I think that should have been at the beginning of the second half. There seems to be obviously to camps in this disagreement. So be it. The bottom line is and was an unhealthy Chappell meant we had a slim chance to win vs. GVSU. But with Battle's performance, you think giving him the ball vs. GVSU was an option?? Whatever everyone's thoughts might be about the WSU game are, we went to GVSU vastly undermanned. If some feel ok with that after watching Chappell limp to the locker room at half vs. WSU and then watch him on crutches on the way to the locker room after that game, then we did what we needed to do to give ourselves a shot vs. GVSU.

Bully for you on your -4 at KW. We like to say at Oxbow, "The sun shines on some poor dog's a** at some point!"--because more than likely you followed that up with a 93!!

While you seem charming, you still are missing the point. THE GAME WAS STILL IN DOUBT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SECOND HALF. It was 20-2 still, hence Chappell still being in the game. Since you want to compare apples to oranges, remember the UNO game in 2005? Using your logic we should have sat the starters in the 4th quarter. Could you imagine the backlash had we done that and had the same result?

By the way, I followed in up with a 84.

[Oxbow6]

While you seem charming, you still are missing the point. THE GAME WAS STILL IN DOUBT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SECOND HALF. It was 20-2 still, hence Chappell still being in the game. Since you want to compare apples to oranges, remember the UNO game in 2005? Using your logic we should have sat the starters in the 4th quarter. Could you imagine the backlash had we done that and had the same result?

By the way, I followed in up with a 84.

1)...and very handsome.

2)This is where we disagree. If you were at the WSU game as I was, we obviously saw it differently.

3)Apple to oranges--yes. UNO is not WSU. But the scenerio, in its TOTALITY, that unfolded during the WSU should have dictated you try another option than Chappell in the second half and this is where we will disagree.

4)And that 84 was still 8 shot lower than your handicap

[siouxfantastic]

Fact is that UNO can only run the ball and that there passing game was overrated. I watched the Sioux game and the USD game and Miller's passes were not accerate at all. That's what upsets me everytime someone plays them. Sellout stop the run. That's what Central Washington did.

[BigGame]

The sling protecting the non-throwing shoulder is what some of us call a clue. :D

So what was wrong with his shoulder?

[Oxbow6]

So what was wrong with his shoulder?

IT WAS IN A SLING!! From Danny's quotes in the paper that he could not reach up for a high snap out of the shot gun, my guess is that it is a sprain or partial dislocation of his non-throwing shoulder. And because it was his non-throwing shoulder, he and the coaches decided to let him give it try after halftime.

[BigGame]

IT WAS IN A SLING!! From Danny's quotes in the paper that he could not reach up for a high snap out of the shot gun, my guess is that it is a sprain or partial dislocation of his non-throwing shoulder. And because it was his non-throwing shoulder, he and the coaches decided to let him give it try after halftime.

Thanks for trying to elaborate, his arm in a sling doesn't tell me a lot.

[mksioux]

People talk about "what if" Winona did this, or "what if" Winona did that. Nobody is saying Chappel should have immediately gone to showers at halftime. He would still be on the sideline if the situation got dire enough. I just think it was a bad coaching decision to put an obviously injured Chappel into a 20-2 game against WINONA STATE knowing that UND's chances against Grand Valley would be dramatically diminished without him. Lennon is obviously a good coach, but that doesn't mean he is immune to making bad decisions from time to time. I'm sure Lennon meant well and did what he thought was best, but it's certainly a valid discussion issue. And it wasn't "20/20 hindsight" for me. I was thinking the same thing at halftime. I wish I had posted something at the time, but I honestly thought there was no way we'd be seeing Chappel in the second half.

And Big Game, I'd really like to hear you expand upon this:

What bothers me most about this is how many people bitch and bitch like the really know every detail of the situation. This is exactly how parents who don't know jack !@$! about whats going on with a sport start talking in their kids ear like they have a clue and end up undermining the coach and screwing everyone in the program. Athletic teams all over the country get ruined by these types of people that are to stupid to realize that if the athletes aren't commited to the team and the system they will not be successful.

Are you seriously suggesting that fans criticising and second-guessing Lennon on a fan message board somehow undermines the program? Please tell me you're not making that link...

I'd be REALLY be worried about the program if nobody cared enough to second-guess the coaches decisions.

[Sioux27]

Lennon is obviously a good coach, but that doesn't mean he is immune to making bad decisions from time to time. I'm sure Lennon meant well and did what he thought was best, but it's certainly a valid discussion issue.

Lennon is a purdy darn good coach but he sure did mess up when passed on DITKA! The Sioux versus Grand Valley with Ditka is about 342 to about 4.

IN DALE WE TRUST!!!!

I will never second guess the man. Me bringing my 6 year old son (175 miles one way) to the Alerus and watching the Sioux whup up on everyone is priceless and much better than my dad bringing me to Memorial Stadium and watching the Sioux get whupped up on by everyone else.