Standing Rock/Spirit Lake

[Goon]

Exactly. The US Calvary came in with the goal of killing Indians; that sounds like ethnic cleansing. How can we possibly support that?? (I guarantee that someone will make that argument. A while back, during an organized crime crackdown, someone accused the Chicago Police Department of "ethnic cleansing".)

A while back, someone wanted to change the name (because someone found it offensive and therefore he found it offensive) to something "nice and neutral: something we can all get behind". And many, many, MANY people pointed out that what one person finds "nice and neutral" the next person finds offensive.

One little paragraph that contains "goal", "formal negotiations" and "offensive to any ethnic group". IMHO, that paragraph could cause years of yapping and claims.

You'll never please everyone. The question is the same with a new nickname as it is with the present one: how small of a offended minority do we ignore? And of course, which preferred group gets an outsized voice?

And as you will be replacing one person's offensive nickname with another person's offensive nickname: what's the point?

What if we put a 1st Cav division patch on the front of our Uniforms?

So why not just come out with NO logo or team name and have an interlocking ND pasted in the middle of the front of the uniform. Works for me.

[dakotadan]

So why not just come out with NO logo or team name and have an interlocking ND pasted in the middle of the front of the uniform. Works for me.

Because we are not Notre Dame. Part of the move to DI should be about name/image branding for UND and helping to make it a more recognizable university nationwide. Using a logo that most of North America recognizes as another university isn't exactly going to do that.

I personally would like to see UND stop using the interlocking ND and either us the flame logo or find a new one that everyone would see and recognize as the University of North Dakota. And the move to DI where many people will be introduced to UND for the first time would be the logical time to do it.

[Goon]

Then mabye a UND in the middle of a uniform.

[MafiaMan]

Since Doreen Yellow Bird is apparently a fan of a certain presidential candidate, let me propose the University of North Dakota Change. Yes, "change" we all can believe in and a nickname that is not offensive to anyone.

[The Sicatoka]

What would you call the reserve players on the team? Spare Change.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

What would you call the reserve players on the team? Spare Change.

"Changeover Gophers, 4-2."

If you brought in that undersized RB for third down plays, he would be a change of pace Change.

Hmmm-where would you hear the line "A Change will do you good"?

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I saw an interesting editorial in today's Chicago Tribune. It told the story of a court victory by a true "David" over a Goliath-a Goliath with virtually limitless money and IMHO a fair amount of clout within Congress. I found this paragraph interesting: I took out the names just for fun to see if it was obvious what the case was about. I thought the circumstances compared favorably to the court case many people here wanted to see-a case against the NCAA which many people seemed to consider an unbeatable Goliath. (I underlined the words I have substituted for the original text.)

David

argued that the

facts

are historical facts that can be used freely by anyone, not property that can be sold. Like the details of Civil War battles, the numbers in the telephone book or the temperatures on the weather page,

facts

can't be owned.

A federal magistrate and an appellate court agreed, and last week the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case, putting the

people

and the 1st Amendment

first

.

Perhaps not an exact comparison, but IMHO interesting nontheless.

[Chewey]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the cries of "institutional racism" came at a curious time? Namely, the fanatics may have thought that people were getting further along with the trial votes regarding the nickname and they wanted to assert such claims to try and derail any progress made.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the cries of "institutional racism" came at a curious time? Namely, the fanatics may have thought that people were getting further along with the trial votes regarding the nickname and they wanted to assert such claims to try and derail any progress made.

Are you referring to the resolution denying funding for a reservation-wide referendum? The resolution that (according to the Grand Forks newspaper) "...spends by far the most ink, however, on a November party by UND

[BobIwabuchiFan]

I've come to the point where I want to have the nickname changed because it will allow most of us to forget His Horse is Thunder and Doreen Yellowbird even exist as they will be removed from public discussion and thought. The end result is no one cares and they can go back to victimizing native americans by pretending their victim agenda actually is helping them while it only alienates native americans from the majority.

As for a new name, I would agree that native americans should have nothing to say about the nickname as long as it does not relate to Native Americans or Native American imagery. Ultimately, I will continue to wear my Sioux jersey and when people as me about the symbols I will remark, "Its a depiction of a once proud warrior people who really no longer exist".

BobIwabuchiFan

[redwing77]

I've come to the point where I want to have the nickname changed because it will allow most of us to forget His Horse is Thunder and Doreen Yellowbird even exist as they will be removed from public discussion and thought. The end result is no one cares and they can go back to victimizing native americans by pretending their victim agenda actually is helping them while it only alienates native americans from the majority.

As for a new name, I would agree that native americans should have nothing to say about the nickname as long as it does not relate to Native Americans or Native American imagery. Ultimately, I will continue to wear my Sioux jersey and when people as me about the symbols I will remark, "Its a depiction of a once proud warrior people who really no longer exist".

BobIwabuchiFan

One word:

WRONG! At least, for the short term.

After the nickname, these people won't go away. Because every bad thing that happens to NA students at UND after the nickname will go from "because of the nickname" to "because of the nickname CHANGE."

The only thing you have to understand is that the victim agenda is a lot like a voracious weed. Try as hard as you can, you can't get rid of it. It will go away for a little bit, adapt or alter itself, then reemerge stronger than ever.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Because every bad thing that happens to NA students at UND after the nickname will go from "because of the nickname" to "because of the nickname CHANGE."

I will offer one small revision: if the name is changed, the victims will claim new wrongs are occuring "because the nickname change TOOK TOO LONG".

After the nickname, these people won't go away.

On this we wholeheartedly agree. Once they sense they have acquired some power (which they probably know already), they'll keep pushing and pushing and pushing.

Not long ago, some Asian students at Northwestern were protesting because Northwestern didn't offer ENOUGH Asian studies programs or courses. At least one interviewer asked the question I had: did you know this before you (voluntarily) enrolled at Northwestern, one of the most selective and expensive Universities in the United States?? After all, as a Northwestern student you must have had many other opportunities to attend a different college. Their protests never got very far; but IMHO if the college had given in, all sorts of other groups would have been out there with placards.

[Sioux-cia]

I predict there will be an increase (imagined/fabricated/almost happened/someone is thinking of doing) in wrongs against Native Americans on campus that will be blamed on the changing of the name and logo against the wishes of the majority.